Music May Reveal and Support Catholic Mysteries!

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Music May Reveal and Support Catholic Mysteries!

Another Amazing Addenduum to Catholic Loaves and Fishes Sacraments Analogy

Wanna see something amazing: Natural Pythagorean MUSIC agrees with Catholicism, and maps in out allegorically. How, you ask?

First, a primer on natural music by Pythagoras

The laws of pythagoras guarantee four notes of pitch:

If N is the first note, and regarded as do of do re mi, …, and regarding the natural do re mi scale, then the following notes are always given

2N is the ocatve (do an octave higher)

(3/2)N is the fifth, (so of do re mi)

(4/3) is the fourth (fa of do re mi)

Then, by applying fifths of fifths of fifths, etc, we eventually crank out a total of twelve notes, and at step twelve, we are back to N, or the start, but not quite. Nevertheless, western music assumes the twelve notes.

In a key, a perfect key, from a reference point, uses only seven of the twelve notes. These notes are for all practical purposes, do re mi fa so la ti [do].

The other five notes we can consider discordant, in a certain sense, or imperfect, in that, they don’t quite fit, they are “off”. In the key of C on the piano, these are the black keys, and the pure notes of key of C are the white keys. Once you traverse a whole ocatve, the process starts over. This why you see the pattern of three black keys, a greater space, then two black keys, then a greater space, then three black keys, again, ad infinitum.

Anyway, the first theological oddity is that when you stick to the pure key of joy, do re mi fa so la ti do, when you reach do, you have eight steps, and you are back to where you started, only one octave higher (“eight, oct”). This is profound, if only because, the eight days of creation are similar.

God labored in six days to CREate the world, He “rested” on the seventh, and He rose on the eighth, bringing it back to the first.

Too, some ECFs argue that these days are images of ages of REcreation of the wold, its redemption.

Well, if we take Catholic private privacy that is approved over and above Augustine’s common model, the ECFs turn out to be right.

Augustine himself delineates five ages to the Old Law (Christ ascended on the fitfh day, Thursday), the sixth to the Church, so that just as man was CREated in God’s Likeness and Image on the sixth DAY, so in the sixth AGE of history, GOd shall [has] REcreated man in His likeness and Image by placing in His mind the fullness of Christ’s triuth, and the fullness of grace, which was fulfilled in Catholic Christendom, where, for the first time in human history, continents of men now know the fullness of God and have the sacraments in them, if even somewhat grudgingly, (hence why the Church is still “laboring against sin and error in the last 2000 years”).

Now the long standing Augustinian model leaves room for a general period of this Church, then a maturation of good and evil, the great apostasy ,and the end.

That would seem to indicate that when the sun sets into day seven, the world is ending, and Christ is imminent. But the mystics don’t agree, at least most of them.

Our current godless age, according to many of them, is temporary, and it will be healed by chastisemet, and the Gentiles will repent and come back to the Church, and our Lady will reign in men’s hearts for a great age of peace.

Only after all this will the final great apostasy occur, the AC come, and the world end in the Second Coming and General Resurrection.

If the mystics are right, the ECF analogy is right on. Today, we are in darkness, the evening of day seven. When Our Lady’s concurs this darkness, there will be peace, and God’s grace will REST in men’s hearts, a sabbath, a seventh day sabbath.

Then the darkness of day eight sets in, the great apostasy, and SEcond COming, New Creation, and all men shall rise, just as Christ rose on day eight.

This is profound, day one being Noah’s day and the wickedness of the frist great fall of man, is the same day as day eight, th e great apostasy.

In each case, all of man is wicked, saving a remnant. In each case, God destroys the world and recreates it, the first, by water ,the last, by fire, see 2 Pet 3

As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the Son of Man.

Profound, there are two ways to do a pure scale of a key in resolution and corelation;

The joyful ascension, do up to do
The sorrowful descension, la down to la

Each has eight notes and returns to the first at step eight;

Too, the comparison of the first and last worlds, and everything in between: Noahs’ day and the great apostasy, the sorrow of fallen man; The Flood and the New Creation and General Resurrection, the joy of God’s Redemption.

 


Now about the Sacraments: Theology of Ecclesiological Grace, How many Sacraments are there? Seven. But to get to FIVE of them, you need to pass through an IMPERFECT channel, a PRIEST, or a BISHOP, who are sinners.

Lo and behold, if you descend a joyful scale from C down to C, key of C, there are five times you will have to pass through a black key, an “imperfect” key to get to the next one, assuming the first C to start is NATURAL birth, and the next step is SUPERNATURAL birth Baptism.

Try it on this keyboard: Stay only white keys, and start just left of a set of two black keys

Try it yourself on piano:

virtualpiano.net/

C is the first white key left of the two black keys.

the eight steps, in the order of the life of the deacon or married priest, who receives all seven sacraments, and in the order of the Roman Rite recommendation, are…:

1 Natural Birth
2 Baptism *
3 Confession
4 Eucharist
5 Confirmation
6 Marriage*
7 Holy Orders
8 Anointing of the Sick

NOte, at the starred steps, no black is right before it, but a white key, those sacrametns, Baptism and Marriage, don’t REQUIRE the priest.

Note, the scale is happy, in C, because God’ redemption of us by the sacraments is an occasion of joy for heaven. But it is a descent, since the man is dying, descneding toward the earthly grave.

The only other scale would be Eccelsiology of Truth, but that is too involed.

As you might expect, so far we have

Joy, ascending: Greater redemptive stages of history
Sorrow, descending: greater stages of sin and fall in human history

Joy, descending, the Sacraments, Ecclesioloy of Grace

what would come next, you guessed it:

Sorrow, Ascending: Lesser ages of Ecclesiological truth

This last scale would effectively be the illuminative way of the Church, her work in the “sxith” day to work out the implications of teaching, of doctrine, as in the parable of the laborers, who incidentally spread their work over, you guessed it TWELVE hours, and being sent out at FIVE different times, hmmmm

Twelve total notes, five notes are DISCORDANT! Seven pure notes left over. Seven trumpet blasts, trumpets are music, trumpets proclaim, the Church “proclaims” her teachigs, but at every stage, there is DISCORD, and over what? Over the SOURCES of truth!

Trinity and Incarnation (early heresies, Islam)
Peter (Great Schism)
General Bishops and Tradition (Moral corruption in Bishops, Protestant Rebellion)
Scripture (Enlightenment)
Reason (Modern secular apostasy).

The music scale ascends, because the Church ascends in her understanding of God, but it is sad, because the world rejects her teachings so often.

suffice it to say, if you look at the parable of the laborers, and take the line between Am and Bflat to be dawn, and then regard a key, black or white, as an hour in the day…

then map out 0 as dawn, 3rd hour, 6th hour, 9th hour, and 11th hour, you will always be adjacent, either on the left, or the right of only one black key, a note of discord, perhaps a SOURCE of discord:

Dawn: Go out a labor against those who would attack the Trinity and Incarnation (the general first heresies since Constantine attacked mainly God as Triune and the Christ)
3rd Hour: Go out and labor against those who would attack Peter (The Orthodox contest Peter)
6th Hour: Go out and labor against those who would attack General Bishops and Tradition (in late Middle Ages, the bishops became largely morally lax, leading to the rejection of them and their Tradition, Protestantism)
9th Hour: Go out and labor against those who would attack Scripture (the Enlightenment attacks even Scripture ,which Protestants retained, and any sense of Revelation, retaining only Reason)
11th Hour: Go out and labor against those who would attack even Reason (the modern secular godless age does not even accept Reason, let alone any other sources above.)

In the twelfth hour, we are back to Am, sunset, it is darkness. That is today. We live a godless age!

Try it yourself on piano:

virtualpiano.net/

C is the first white key left of the two black keys.
 
Music May Reveal and Support Catholic Mysteries!

Another Amazing Addenduum to Catholic Loaves and Fishes Sacraments Analogy

Wanna see something amazing: Natural Pythagorean MUSIC agrees with Catholicism, and maps in out allegorically. How, you ask?

First, a primer on natural music by Pythagoras

The laws of pythagoras guarantee four notes of pitch:

If N is the first note, and regarded as do of do re mi, …, and regarding the natural do re mi scale, then the following notes are always given

2N is the ocatve (do an octave higher)

(3/2)N is the fifth, (so of do re mi)

(4/3) is the fourth (fa of do re mi)

Then, by applying fifths of fifths of fifths, etc, we eventually crank out a total of twelve notes, and at step twelve, we are back to N, or the start, but not quite. Nevertheless, western music assumes the twelve notes.

In a key, a perfect key, from a reference point, uses only seven of the twelve notes. These notes are for all practical purposes, do re mi fa so la ti [do].

The other five notes we can consider discordant, in a certain sense, or imperfect, in that, they don’t quite fit, they are “off”. In the key of C on the piano, these are the black keys, and the pure notes of key of C are the white keys. Once you traverse a whole ocatve, the process starts over. This why you see the pattern of three black keys, a greater space, then two black keys, then a greater space, then three black keys, again, ad infinitum.

Anyway, the first theological oddity is that when you stick to the pure key of joy, do re mi fa so la ti do, when you reach do, you have eight steps, and you are back to where you started, only one octave higher (“eight, oct”). This is profound, if only because, the eight days of creation are similar.

God labored in six days to CREate the world, He “rested” on the seventh, and He rose on the eighth, bringing it back to the first.

Too, some ECFs argue that these days are images of ages of REcreation of the wold, its redemption.

Well, if we take Catholic private privacy that is approved over and above Augustine’s common model, the ECFs turn out to be right.

Augustine himself delineates five ages to the Old Law (Christ ascended on the fitfh day, Thursday), the sixth to the Church, so that just as man was CREated in God’s Likeness and Image on the sixth DAY, so in the sixth AGE of history, GOd shall [has] REcreated man in His likeness and Image by placing in His mind the fullness of Christ’s triuth, and the fullness of grace, which was fulfilled in Catholic Christendom, where, for the first time in human history, continents of men now know the fullness of God and have the sacraments in them, if even somewhat grudgingly, (hence why the Church is still “laboring against sin and error in the last 2000 years”).

Now the long standing Augustinian model leaves room for a general period of this Church, then a maturation of good and evil, the great apostasy ,and the end.

That would seem to indicate that when the sun sets into day seven, the world is ending, and Christ is imminent. But the mystics don’t agree, at least most of them.

Our current godless age, according to many of them, is temporary, and it will be healed by chastisemet, and the Gentiles will repent and come back to the Church, and our Lady will reign in men’s hearts for a great age of peace.

Only after all this will the final great apostasy occur, the AC come, and the world end in the Second Coming and General Resurrection.

If the mystics are right, the ECF analogy is right on. Today, we are in darkness, the evening of day seven. When Our Lady’s concurs this darkness, there will be peace, and God’s grace will REST in men’s hearts, a sabbath, a seventh day sabbath.

Then the darkness of day eight sets in, the great apostasy, and SEcond COming, New Creation, and all men shall rise, just as Christ rose on day eight.

This is profound, day one being Noah’s day and the wickedness of the frist great fall of man, is the same day as day eight, th e great apostasy.

In each case, all of man is wicked, saving a remnant. In each case, God destroys the world and recreates it, the first, by water ,the last, by fire, see 2 Pet 3

As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the Son of Man.

Profound, there are two ways to do a pure scale of a key in resolution and corelation;

The joyful ascension, do up to do
The sorrowful descension, la down to la

Each has eight notes and returns to the first at step eight;

Too, the comparison of the first and last worlds, and everything in between: Noahs’ day and the great apostasy, the sorrow of fallen man; The Flood and the New Creation and General Resurrection, the joy of God’s Redemption.

Proof, were it needed, that one can twist anything to support one’s superstitious worldview!

And an awful grasp of musical progression, to boot!
 
Proof, were it needed, that one can twist anything to support one’s superstitious worldview!

And an awful grasp of musical progression, to boot!
must be nice to be content with eternal unconsciousness as one’s ultimate fate
 
must be nice to be content with eternal unconsciousness as one’s ultimate fate
This is something of a non sequitur, but I’ll answer it anyway: Yes, it is. As Mark Twain said, “I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.”

I prefer to live for this life, rather than the next. It’s not eternal unconsciousness, it’s eternal non-existence. It’s not like I’ll know about it.

I’m glad I don’t have to live clinging to the unwarranted and arbitrary notion that I’ll never really die. I feel genuinely sorry for those who believe that they have to suffer and grovel in this life to have a chance in the next. But at least they won’t have the sinking feeling of realising how much of their life they’ve wasted… because they’ll be dead!
 
This is something of a non sequitur, but I’ll answer it anyway: Yes, it is. As Mark Twain said, “I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.”

I prefer to live for this life, rather than the next. It’s not eternal unconsciousness, it’s eternal non-existence. It’s not like I’ll know about it.

I’m glad I don’t have to live clinging to the unwarranted and arbitrary notion that I’ll never really die. I feel genuinely sorry for those who believe that they have to suffer and grovel in this life to have a chance in the next. But at least they won’t have the sinking feeling of realising how much of their life they’ve wasted… because they’ll be dead!
A wise man tries to discover the purpose of life and orders his whole life around it. If there is no purpose reason tells us that everything is vanity and is a waste. Are you a nihilist?
 
A wise man tries to discover the purpose of life and orders his whole life around it. If there is no purpose reason tells us that everything is vanity and is a waste. Are you a nihilist?
A wise man doesn’t assume his life has purpose other than that which he chooses for himself. To live one’s life on a false assumption is the ultimate waste of time, and to believe, in the complete absence of supporting evidence, that one exists to serve some sort of higher purpose is mere arrogance.

To believe that one can provide one’s own purpose in life; and to accept that after death, only the legacy of that purpose might remain, may technically be called nihilism I suppose, but nihilism is so often used pejoratively that my instinct is to reject the label. Nihilism is often burdened with the unnecessary baggage of despair, particularly by theists who seem unable to grasp that a life without god belief is not a miserable life. In fact, I sometimes wonder how many theists cling doggedly to their dogma even as it erodes beneath their fingernails, purely because they’re so scared of what might happen if they stop believing that an invisible dad in the sky will look after them.
 
By saying that one can choose a purpose you are saying there is none. There needs to be despair because although there is no purpose you are living as though there is one. One can either be delusional about this and play a game of pretend or live in despair.
 
By saying that one can choose a purpose you are saying there is none. There needs to be despair because although there is no purpose you are living as though there is one. One can either be delusional about this and play a game of pretend or live in despair.
I think you illustrate my point perfectly. You can’t understand how to live a life that doesn’t serve some ultimate purpose. A purpose that you don’t, cannot possibly, know. A purpose for which no evidence exists. Yet you cling to it blindly, to avoid the very despair that you mistakenly attribute to those of us who have grown up.

What do I have to despair about? Life is wonderful. I have a great family, a good job, good friends. Why would I need to believe that somehow my life contributes to some ethereal celestial purpose? Especially when I cannot possibly know what that purpose might be?

Purpose requires intent by someone. If my life serves a higher purpose, then there needs to be a higher form of intelligence that has intent. No evidence of such an entity exists, so rationality demands that I not make absurd assumptions then live my life according to them.

Ironically, we are both creating our own purpose in life. It’s just that I’m aware of doing it, and you’re not. Mine has a practical goal - the happiness of my friends, family and myself… and yours doesn’t, because you’re subscribed to the undefined, undefinable purpose of an invented deity.

How do you know whether you are fulfilling your “purpose,” when you can’t know what it is?
 
If we cannot attain to love with others and an Infinite Being of love, forever, what is life worth?

Pleasures, possessions, accomplishments?
 
Friends,

There are plenty of pointless squabbles about the afterlife already on these forums.

There aren’t plenty of discussions about music theory and Catholicism. In fact this is probably the only one.

PLEASE, recognize that you have very different philosophical beliefs, save it for a different thread, and don’t let this thread be derailed.
 
Friends,

There are plenty of pointless squabbles about the afterlife already on these forums.

There aren’t plenty of discussions about music theory and Catholicism. In fact this is probably the only one.

PLEASE, recognize that you have very different philosophical beliefs, save it for a different thread, and don’t let this thread be derailed.
yeah, and how is the theory? In your humble opinion?
 
I think you illustrate my point perfectly. You can’t understand how to live a life that doesn’t serve some ultimate purpose. A purpose that you don’t, cannot possibly, know. A purpose for which no evidence exists. Yet you cling to it blindly, to avoid the very despair that you mistakenly attribute to those of us who have grown up.

What do I have to despair about? Life is wonderful. I have a great family, a good job, good friends. Why would I need to believe that somehow my life contributes to some ethereal celestial purpose? Especially when I cannot possibly know what that purpose might be?

Purpose requires intent by someone. If my life serves a higher purpose, then there needs to be a higher form of intelligence that has intent. No evidence of such an entity exists, so rationality demands that I not make absurd assumptions then live my life according to them.

Ironically, we are both creating our own purpose in life. It’s just that I’m aware of doing it, and you’re not. Mine has a practical goal - the happiness of my friends, family and myself… and yours doesn’t, because you’re subscribed to the undefined, undefinable purpose of an invented deity.

How do you know whether you are fulfilling your “purpose,” when you can’t know what it is?
I’m sorry that I must bring this back up, but please.
You say that you are creating a purpose, but by your own definition, a purpose must require intent. In a completely materialist worldview, there is no such thing as intent, just things that are, simply because intent presupposes choice and consciousness. If there is no option for choice (a choice which complete materialism eliminates by way of complete domination by physical forces of randomness that ‘generated’ the universe, a materialist determinism), then there’s no intent and therefore no purpose to be created. If I may be so bold, you are practical terms worshiping a purpose that is not there, like a sort of idol that you hold up to mock us with. You have made it with your own hands (carving out your own purpose), and yet you mock us for following something that is not our creation?
By definition, there must be some sort of truth, even if it is that everything is material. Finding that truth is our purpose, if you will, or at least it’s mine.
You didn’t come on this thread to discuss philosophy. You came on it to mock people. You took a music-related thread and completely derailed it, ergo the topic that I am speaking on now, which you brought up.
And a purposeless object is just that. IT HAS NO PURPOSE.
Why create art? It does nothing but look good, and possibly communicate.
In fact, if there is no ultimate purpose for humanity, there’s no reason why there should be love, or we should protect others, or even live. Love would be a chemical reaction in a 4-billion-plus-year chain of events that proceeded it. Useless. Like EVERYTHING ELSE.
If you asked me, you’re the one who’s deluding themselves, crying ‘reason, reason’, when there is no reason.
I seek the truth, to find something eternal to take hold of, because I know this.
And if death consumes me, then I’m no worse off than when I began, now am I?
Unbelievable…
 
yeah, and how is the theory? In your humble opinion?
In my humble opinion, as a musician and composer, I don’t care for it. While it may have meaning for you, to me it only seems to complicate and even make insignificant the economy of salvation.

I LOVE MUSIC! But I think when we strive to take supernatural meaning to the extreme in every area of our lives, we run the risk of becoming spiritualists, and of making a mockery of the faith to non-believers.

I LOVE SCIENCE! What you are talking about here is the series of overtones. I find it to be a beautiful and amazing series of sounds – whether heard in the ringing of our parish bells, or in the “phantom” note (the next in the series) heard when a finely tuned choir sings the first notes of series (the 16 of us heard the next note resonating although none of us were singing it – seriously advanced college choir at major university).

I don’t wish to squash your creativity or your faith. But it may be best to stick with Church documents, writings of the Saints and Fathers of the Church, rather than trying to create some new psuedo-science-based proof of God.

Praying for you and all on this thread! God bless you!

Gertie
 
In my humble opinion, as a musician and composer, I don’t care for it. While it may have meaning for you, to me it only seems to complicate and even make insignificant the economy of salvation.

I LOVE MUSIC! But I think when we strive to take supernatural meaning to the extreme in every area of our lives, we run the risk of becoming spiritualists, and of making a mockery of the faith to non-believers.

I LOVE SCIENCE! What you are talking about here is the series of overtones. I find it to be a beautiful and amazing series of sounds – whether heard in the ringing of our parish bells, or in the “phantom” note (the next in the series) heard when a finely tuned choir sings the first notes of series (the 16 of us heard the next note resonating although none of us were singing it – seriously advanced college choir at major university).

I don’t wish to squash your creativity or your faith. But it may be best to stick with Church documents, writings of the Saints and Fathers of the Church, rather than trying to create some new psuedo-science-based proof of God.

Praying for you and all on this thread! God bless you!

Gertie
i
I’m not looking for a proof of God, but conjecturing that God intended to reinforce certain base Catholic mysteries in music.
 
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