Music Ministry and Liturgical Planning

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wm777
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

Wm777

Guest
Here’s a question on some liturgical planning terminology for music ministry.

What is a “mass setting”? But in the old sense of the term, not so much the new.

The reason for asking is, I did a search on “What are the parts of the Catholic mass?”, and found various answers… some people divide it up in two, four, five seven or more parts - so that’s not particularly what I am looking for…

The explanation I liked, which seemed to make the most sense (based upon what I know) was this one:

Mass (music) - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

simple.m.wikipedia.org simple.m.wikipedia.org

I’m familiar with those terms. It divides the parts of the mass into the Ordinary and the Proper, and it describes each in more specific terms (like the Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, etc.)…

The part I dont get - even after having played in music ministries on and off for 35 years - is… in the modern sense, we use the term “mass setting”, but I dont exactly understand what “mass setting” means in the old sense, i.e. in the terms listed in the link…

Take Marty Haugen’s Mass of Creation, for instance… what the ministries I have dealt with call the Mass of Creation “setting” is centered mainly around the Sanctus, Memorial Acclamation and Lamb of God… The church will usually select different pieces or hymns (often under different terms) for the other parts of the mass…

Contemporary composers have other settings, too, which sometimes seem to include more or less parts… so I know my perceptions are scattered and incomplete… I’ve tried to ask different people to resolve the issue, but no one has fully answered the question, either…

Can anyone here take a crack at explaining this issue please, so I can get my terminology “mapped” into a correct alignment between the “old parts” and the seemingly newer term of the “mass setting”?

I mainly want to know - what are the essential parts of a setting using the old terms?

Hoping this makes sense…
 
Last edited:
It might help if I gave my understanding of the parts of the mass, and then someone could correct it, if they like…

Here’s what I “know”…

Introductory Meditation (Optional)
Processional (Is this the Introit in the Ordinary?)
Kyrie
Gloria
First Reading (Spoken)
Psalm Tone (This must come from the Proper…?)
Second Reading (Spoken)
Sequence (Alleluia)
Homily (Spoken)
Creed (Credo)
Offertory
Sanctus (?)
Memorial Acclamation (?)
The Great Amen (?)
Lamb of God (?)
Communion Hymn (?)
Meditation Hymn and/or Sacred Silence
Recessional (?, except on Good Friday)
Postlude (Optional)

Of the above list - you may notice the “Gradual” is not mentioned… I dont know which parts the Gradual or Introits are…
 
Last edited:
I’m sorry, but that doesn’t seem to make sense to me… The modern’s seem to almost always focus the setting around the pieces in the eucharistic rite and perhaps fewer (if any) pieces in the liturgy of the word… This is why it seems kind of hard for me to understand… in the modern sense - do we (or can we) have a “setting” as comprised of both ordinary and proper forms? 🤔
 
Last edited:
BTW, if there is anyone here who can teach me how to use the Liber Usualis to plan/predict the hymns and readings on a daily basis, then I would greatly appreciate a shared discussion…
 
Mass settings include all the songs of the mass that are not usual hymns. Such as Gloria, Angus Dei, Sanctus, Mystery of Faith, Gospel Acclamation …

I am a big fan of Mass Settings, I listen to them regularly on YouTube:


If I am to be so bold, I would like to recommend to you three settings but of course there are tons that are great:
  • Mass of Creation
  • Mass of Peace and Joy
  • Mass of St. Ann
 
Last edited:
Wm777 said:
Of the above list - you may notice the “Gradual” is not mentioned… I dont know which parts the Gradual or Introits are…
Click to expand...
The gradual and introits are parts of the EF Mass. The Gradual takes place between the reading and the Gospel, the Introit is basically the Entrance Antiphon.
 
I’m not trying to be difficult here… so thank you for “bearing” with me (no pun intended)…

I think I just have had a lot of my terminology backwards…

I thought the gradual was whats called a “sequence” which is basically the same thing as the alleluia…

🤔
 
Last edited:
Wm777 said:
I thought the gradual was whats called a “sequence” which is basically the same thing as the alleluia…

🤔
Click to expand...
No, a sequence is more special. The Dies Iræ, for example, is the sequence for All Souls Day. It is definitely not the same thing as the Alleluia nor the Gradual.
 
A few searches on this site revealed some comments indicating the EF and OF are almost impossible to compare…

I think I might just need to find a liturgist to work through this one-on-one… not sure how they teach each of these forms to liturgists in schools, but it would be nice to know…
 
I only really know Bach’s Missa, but I wanted to know the propers for certain Saints so I could add the texts to the commission.
 
Last edited:
I think you may be over-thinking this. A “setting” is a pre-existing text put to music. A “Mass setting” is texts from the Mass set to music. Usually they include most of the Ordinary, though many don’t include the Credo. Some include some responsorials and a Gospel acclamation. I’ve seen some that include the Lord’s Prayer as well. It’s up to the composer and the publisher.
 
I will try giving examples of Mass settings with an excerpt from a book. This passage is about what happened in the 1930s, after the orchestra was disbanded for a church in Melbourne, Australia:

“Previously Solemn High Mass was only celebrated at Easter and Christmas, with a Missa Cantata on the first Sunday of each month. But now the Blessed Sacrament Fathers introduced the singing of a High Mass every Sunday. The repertoire of the choir changed from Haydn and Gounod to Masses by César Frank: Messe à trois void , Theodore Dubois: Messe Pontificale, Messe de la Deliverance , Lorenzo Perosi: Missa Eucharistica , Missa Pontificalis and Missa ’St Ambrose’ as well as Masses by Charles-Marie Widor, Alexandre Guilmant, Ernesto Ravenello, Edwardus Stehele, C.H. Kitson and Gounod’s Messe à la memoire de Jeanne d’Arc . One surprising feature was the return of an occasional performance, with organ alone, of Beethoven’s Mass in C and Mozart’s Mass in C . To illustrate the time involved in rehearsals for the choir under the new regime, it worked on Theodore Dubois’ Messe Solennelle de Saint-Remi for nine weeks before presenting it at liturgy.”

[“Echoes of Home: Music at St Francis’ 1845-1995” by John H. Byrne, published 1995, by St Francis’ Choir Inc., page 121.]

Appendix E of the book has more than four pages of Mass settings under the heading “Settings of the Ordinary of the Mass performed by St Francis’ Choir”. A more recent composer is “Willcock, Christopher Trinity Mass”.
 
Last edited:
Wm777 said:
I’m sorry, but that doesn’t seem to make sense to me
Click to expand...
He is, however, quite right, almost. The Alleluia is part of the Propers. Mass setting is one of the 18 possible standard settings for the ordinary of the Mass: Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei. The Credo has its own series not tied to the Mass setting, and there are a few ad libitum selections for the Kyrie, Gloria, etc.
Fauken said:
The gradual and introits are parts of the EF Mass
Click to expand...
They are also part of the OF Mass.
Wm777 said:
BTW, if there is anyone here who can teach me how to use the Liber Usualis to plan/predict the hymns and readings on a daily basis, then I would greatly appreciate a shared discussion…
Click to expand...
The Liber Usualis is not useful for the OF Mass. You need the 1974 Graduale Romanum. Most of the pieces will be the same as the Liber, but arranged for the post-conciliar liturgical year and cycle of readings.
 
Thank you for all the replies.

That said, I still dont get it… 😦

If someone wants to really help answer the question, then I guess what would be most helpful is simply to make a corrected list, like I started up above. That’s how I’m trying to think through it, anyway. On the other hand, if such a list isnt possible, then just say “it’s not possible”.

No other replies are really necessary. I think they’ll likely only confuse matters more.

Thanks anyway to those who have participated thus far.
 
This is the order of the Mass music

Introït or entrance hymn
Kyrie
Gloria (Sundays, feasts and solemnities)
Gradual response or responsory psalm (after 1st reading)
(Sequence, only on certain solemnities, e.g. Easter)
Alleluia after second reading or tract or other Gospel acclamation during Lent
Credo after Gospel and homily (Sundays and Solemnities)
Offertory antiphon or hymn
Sanctus
Pater noster
Agnus Dei
Communion antiphon or hymn

At Eastertide Masses in Gregorian chant, the Gradual is replaced by a second Alleluia.

The Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus and Agnus Dei are part of the Ordinary, because the texts are invariable. “Mass setting” refers to these, because the same texts are set to different melodies. There are 18 settings in Gregorian chant plus a few ad libitum choices. Some are specific to certain times or feasts: I for Easter, IV for feasts of Apostles, IX and X for solemnities, feasts and memorials of the BVM, XI Sundays of Ordinary Time, XVI weekdays in OT, XVII Sundays of Advent and Lent, XVIII for Mass for the dead and weekdays of Lent and Advent,and the rest for various other occasions.

The introït, Gradual, Alleluia, Offertory and Communion antiphons, are part of the propers and can be replaced by othe approved music in different forms such as hymns. They are proper because the texts vary according to the week, time, day or occasion.
 
Thank you very, very much… I really appreciate it… This clarifies a lot, and it almost exactly what I’ve been looking for! 🤩
 
Thank you… I’m familiar with the site, so - in light of these new findings - I think I’ll be able to make more sense of it now…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top