Music Ministry Problem

[nickybr38]

I’m not sure if this is the right thread to place this under. I’m really at a loss. Any direction would be appreciated!

I may have shared these concerns before, but things have escalated quite a bit and I’m desperately in need of some guidance.

A few years ago I moved to a new parish. Once a month I return to my old parish to help with music ministry (I have family in that parish as well so it’s an opportunity to attend Mass with them once a month). This is relevant because my new priest saw me assisting music ministry in my old parish when he was called in to cover one Sunday.

Since moving I have attempted to become involved in the music ministry in my new parish but … it’s difficult.

When I first arrived I explained to them that I’m a new Catholic and I’m not familiar with their music. They responded by saying: OH! They’re all easy songs! Everyone knows them!

Yeah, but I didn’t.

I asked if we could perhaps try practicing the music together BEFORE Mass but they nixed this while saying they ‘just didn’t have time’. Everyone was TOO busy to put any real effort in. So what they DO do is show up Sunday morning and just sing whatever the organist has picked out (usually picked out just before Mass as well).

I tried for many months to participate despite this but often found myself standing up front with no clue how to sing the songs that had been presented since I was unfamiliar with them (and often the organist does not play them as they’re written - I can sight read but not if she randomly changes things).

I brought my concerns to the group several times and offered many times to practice with them.

I volunteered to help out as a pianist (since that’s my strength) and they immediately dismissed me because ‘we already have one’ (although it should be noted as soon as the lead organist saw me performing for a community event she suddenly started trying to pressure me to play but as no one was willing to practice I refused. I play VERY differently from her and I knew it would just confuse her current group if I came along and played the way I do).

Eventually it became very clear to me that this is how they do things and they have no interest in changing so I quietly retired to the pews and no longer participate.

I AM starting to learn the songs now (from the pew) but they still introduce new music that I’m unfamiliar with so I have remained in the pew. I intend to remain in the pew until I am familiar enough with their music to confidently stand in front and lead (how can I lead a song I don’t even know!!!).

However, the priest at our parish has seen me in the old parish and KNOWS that I play piano. He has seen how sharply put together my music team there is (we practice for hours the Saturday before every Mass so our music is not a distraction. Nothing is a worse distraction than hap-hazard music - in my opinion) and has begun very aggressively pushing me to participate in the music ministry in HIS parish. I have not had the courage to tell him WHY I don’t participate. I know if I voice my concerns it could potentially cause a great deal of strife within the music ministry team currently in place.

This past Sunday was perhaps the worst experience I’ve ever had in any parish.

The music team didn’t know the songs. They were giggling and snickering as they struggled to figure out the melodies. The organist didn’t even know what she was doing. It was a Mass of Noise from start to finish. Completely horrifying from the pew.

It breaks my heart. If they just put in TIME to learn the pieces properly, they could do so well but the ladies in charge are just determined that they aren’t willing to give that time and ‘why should they’ what they do is ‘good enough’.

I’ve played with the idea of gathering the music team apart from the lead organist and having them practice at my home but I think she would see this as undermining her.

I’ve thought of forming a second music team (like in my old parish - there are over five music teams in my old parish. This way no one group is over taxed) so that we could work and practice prior to Mass to learn the music (I know there are others in the parish who wish to participate but who aren’t comfortable because, like me, they want to practice prior to leading) but then I thought that would offend the lead organist.

I just can’t think of any way to address this without causing drama but I clearly hear God and the priest telling me I need to participate.

How do I find a way to participate in Music Ministry under these circumstances?

Any ideas?

 

[Gorgias]

However, the priest at our parish has seen me in the old parish and KNOWS that I play piano. He has seen how sharply put together my music team there is (we practice for hours the Saturday before every Mass so our music is not a distraction. Nothing is a worse distraction than hap-hazard music - in my opinion) and has begun very aggressively pushing me to participate in the music ministry in HIS parish. I have not had the courage to tell him WHY I don’t participate.

Have you asked him why he wants you to participate?

I know if I voice my concerns it could potentially cause a great deal of strife within the music ministry team currently in place.

Perhaps he already wants a change in the parish’s music ministry…?

the ladies in charge are just determined that they aren’t willing to give that time and ‘why should they’ what they do is ‘good enough’.

I don’t think it’s unfair to let him know that this seems to be the message you’ve received from them, and that you cannot, in good conscience, work in that way.

I’ve played with the idea of gathering the music team apart from the lead organist and having them practice at my home but I think she would see this as undermining her.

Right. That would be just asking for trouble.

Unless, of course, you framed it up as an invitation to help you learn the songs. You could, of course, just let it be known that you’ll be at the church during a certain time period on a given day of the week, just practicing by yourself to get up to speed, learning the hymns, and if anyone wanted to come by – just to add their voices to the mix – it would be a wonderful way to help you learn the music. It’s really just a ‘fellowship’ thing, you see… (wink wink nudge nudge)

(Of course, you’d want to have the pastor’s permission before going that route, right?)

And, naturally, this would be a nice way to go, if you’re appealing to the people who “want to participate, but need to learn first” – perhaps this could be the ‘newbie choir’, or at least, a group of people who wish to join the choir when they feel comfortable enough…!

I’ve thought of forming a second music team

That’s a good idea, too. Of course, you wouldn’t want it to be a competing team – perhaps there’s a ‘spin’ you could put on it? A youth choir, or a ladies choir, or a men’s choir, or a schola that also practices Gregorian chant. Whatever ‘spin’ there is, you could then make the claim that you’re not competing with them… just adding a new dimension to the music ministry, at your pastor’s request.

 

[phil19034]

Question: does the parish have an employeed music director? Someone paid by the parish?

Anyway, talk to the pastor and tell him pretty much what you said here (except the part about you not knowing the music). Don’t be afraid to talk to him. If you still feel unconformable, simply ask him to keep your conversation private and he can tell people that he say what you were doing at your old parish.

Let him know that you are more than willing to help impove the music ministry, but that you would require a set practice schedule. Also, if it will make you feel better, ask him to “shake the trees” so you don’t have to be the one to start “shaking things up.”

Good luck and God Bless.

NOTE: non musicians often have no problem just trying to sing by ear (I’m one of them). I know I’m tone deaf and can’t sing. So I don’t really worry about trying to hit notes because I know I don’t even know how to. If you choir is made up of volunteers who technically do not know how to sing or read music, that would explain why they are fine with “singing by ear.” Trained/schooled musicians on the other hand will take their job much more seriously (and sometimes too seriously).

 

[nickybr38]

Good advice so far. Thanks guys. I’ll bring these all to my prayers and see where God leads me.

It’s true that us trained musicians can sometimes take things too seriously. Funny enough the ladies currently leading this music team are all music teachers. >.< They seem to think because they can just jump in there and do it (which… actually, they can’t… ) that everyone else should be able to as well. But clearly that isn’t the case as their singers are struggling to keep up, understand and lead.

 

[CradleJourney]

However, the priest at our parish has seen me in the old parish and KNOWS that I play piano. He has seen how sharply put together my music team there is (we practice for hours the Saturday before every Mass so our music is not a distraction. Nothing is a worse distraction than hap-hazard music - in my opinion) and has begun very aggressively pushing me to participate in the music ministry in HIS parish. I have not had the courage to tell him WHY I don’t participate. I know if I voice my concerns it could potentially cause a great deal of strife within the music ministry team currently in place.

I just can’t think of any way to address this without causing drama but I clearly hear God and the priest telling me I need to participate.

How do I find a way to participate in Music Ministry under these circumstances?

Any ideas?

You’ve already received good advice. I just wanted to chime in on a possible idea of the priest’s point of view. Perhaps he’s not a musician, knows nothing of what’s going on (or what should be going on esp. practice-wise) and simply knows that you “sound good” (or better) than what’s happening at his parish. Figures adding someone “good” to the mix has to be an improvement, not realizing the issues/personalities/etc. involved.

I, myself, adore singing - though I can’t carry a tune, keep a beat, nor perceive when I do/don’t hit a note. I was never taught anything except the names of the notes and lyrics to hymns in music class. So I always figured it was honestly just a matter of talent - some people sing beautifully because they have more, others do not.

It wasn’t until my daughter became a vocal musician that I learned the amount of knowledge and hard work that go into singing - far beyond “just having talent”. So all the issues you described would have fallen (excuse the pun) on deaf ears if I hadn’t had that experience - and that might be where the priest - and perhaps other members of your parish’s choir - are now. They just don’t know.

So when you speak with him (and you should ) - just let him know that you learn and practice and perform in certain ways that are not what others without your background do not - and that you’re afraid your ways might come across as “taking over” and that you don’t want to cause hurt feelings. I’m guessing he’ll either agree with you - and help you create a second team or else might just surprise you and let you know that taking over is what he wants you to do (Which it would then fall on him to address the issue with the current leader).

Hope it all works out well!

 

[pianistclare]

If they are volunteers you probably have more problems that if they were paid actually.
We have a group that plays one particular Mass that is pretty bad. But “they were with us in the lean years, and they’re all such nice people” is the response that the various music directors have gotten. In other words: hands off. They’re here and no one can get them to change the way they do things, and the bottom line, is, we’re used to it. Bigger fish to fry.

Which says a lot.

I would meet with the priest who wants you, and ask him to “assign” you a particular Mass. You tell him you will be seeking and recruiting singers for the Mass, and that you will make sure this Mass is well covered.
It will then be HIS decision to speak to the other people and let them know that you are heading up a Mass. They can deal with it as they wish. Once you get a following of sorts, people can either decide to participate with adequate participation, or remain with their cozy group. But at least you will be serving using your strengths, and all with the approval of the priest.

I will tell you though. I’ve been a Music Director for years. Sometimes you have a priest that will let you do whatever you want…and is content. Sometimes they will allow people do anything, and then bitterly complain about them when they are not present. It happens.
Still others take an active interest and have specific do’s and don’ts.

Get to know him, tell him you are capable and willing, but it has to be his call on how to deal with the others who were there first, and not likely to support you. It’s not bad-mouthing, it’s just part of the logistics of different Masses and different music styles. (or at least you can say that )

Does your parish have a music room available for rehearsal or are you stuck with rehearsing in the Sanctuary before Mass?
Does you parish have a budget for music?
Does you parish have someone specific that selects the hymns? Or are you free to make selections based on their appropriateness for the readings and the liturgical seasons? Or are you free to make that call?
Will you be able to post something in the bulletin or maybe a pulpit announcement saying that there’s new group forming at the 11 AM Mass for interested singers and instrumentalists?
Offer to have a sing-in, where you can get to meet folks and gauge/witness their talents.
Maybe one a Sunday afternoon with snacks, a casual gathering in one of the meeting rooms?

See what level of support he will give you. That’s key. Or else you’ll just be “that person” who wants to mess up the clique.

Good luck!

 

[ServusHumilis]

The big problem I’m seeing here is lack of practice. Practice is key in producing good music. If your group won’t practice they are going to sound awful, heck they still may even after practice. Mass is not the time to practice; our blessed Lord deserves only the best.

In the end the priest is in charge of what goes on in his parish. If you want change you need to take your concerns to him. He should know how to handle things with proper foresight and vigilance.

 

[beleg]

The big problem I’m seeing here is lack of practice. Practice is key in producing good music. If your group won’t practice they are going to sound awful, heck they still may even after practice. Mass is not the time to practice; our blessed Lord deserves only the best.

In the end the priest is in charge of what goes on in his parish. If you want change you need to take your concerns to him. He should know how to handle things with proper foresight and vigilance.

I’d also like to add that it seems like there is a lack of passion or interest with what they’re doing. You have to be interested and active in the music-making process to sound good. And come on! They’re supposed to be singing for God - wouldn’t you want that music to be as good as you can possibly make it sound? :harp:

 

[Cat]

I play piano and I’m very good. I’ve played in church since I was in 6th grade, and I’m now 57 years old. I’m from an Evangelical Protestant background, so I play a “gospel” style that many people in my Catholic parish love (and I’m sure some hate). But I can also play classical style. I use whatever style is appropriate for each hymn or anthem; i.e., I don’t try to “gospel up” hymns like “Immaculate Mary” or “Holy God We Praise Thy Name”. In fact, I’ve been taking organ lessons for three years, and I’m at a point where I will play these traditional hymns on the organ, and play piano for the contemporary hymns.

If I were in your situation, I would take all this grief and mayhem as a sign that this isn’t my place to serve, and I would back away and sit in the pews and join the congregation.

I would let the priest (is there no music/liturgy director in the parish?) know that I am available as a substitute if the organist is on vacation.

And then I would leave it alone unless they call me to sub.

It sounds like you have other opportunities to serve in parishes with your music. Take those and do your best with them, and don’t worry about the parish that already has a “music team.”

I’m very curious about which hymns/songs you struggle to learn. Are you talking about the contemporary hymns? (When Catholics say “contemporary hymns,” they are talking about hymns that were written 40-50 years ago.) Or are you talking about the traditional hymns? Or the Latin hymns?

I’ve never had any trouble with any of the hymns, so I’m wondering what the “bad boys” are in your parish hymnal. Thanks!

 

[HelenRose]

I’m not sure if this is the right thread to place this under. I’m really at a loss. Any direction would be appreciated!

I may have shared these concerns before, but things have escalated quite a bit and I’m desperately in need of some guidance.

A few years ago I moved to a new parish. Once a month I return to my old parish to help with music ministry (I have family in that parish as well so it’s an opportunity to attend Mass with them once a month). This is relevant because my new priest saw me assisting music ministry in my old parish when he was called in to cover one Sunday.

Since moving I have attempted to become involved in the music ministry in my new parish but … it’s difficult.

When I first arrived I explained to them that I’m a new Catholic and I’m not familiar with their music. They responded by saying: OH! They’re all easy songs! Everyone knows them!

Yeah, but I didn’t.

I asked if we could perhaps try practicing the music together BEFORE Mass but they nixed this while saying they ‘just didn’t have time’. Everyone was TOO busy to put any real effort in. So what they DO do is show up Sunday morning and just sing whatever the organist has picked out (usually picked out just before Mass as well).

I tried for many months to participate despite this but often found myself standing up front with no clue how to sing the songs that had been presented since I was unfamiliar with them (and often the organist does not play them as they’re written - I can sight read but not if she randomly changes things).
…

It breaks my heart. If they just put in TIME to learn the pieces properly, they could do so well but the ladies in charge are just determined that they aren’t willing to give that time and ‘why should they’ what they do is ‘good enough’.

I’ve played with the idea of gathering the music team apart from the lead organist and having them practice at my home but I think she would see this as undermining her.

I’ve thought of forming a second music team (like in my old parish - there are over five music teams in my old parish. This way no one group is over taxed) so that we could work and practice prior to Mass to learn the music (I know there are others in the parish who wish to participate but who aren’t comfortable because, like me, they want to practice prior to leading) but then I thought that would offend the lead organist.

I just can’t think of any way to address this without causing drama but I clearly hear God and the priest telling me I need to participate.

How do I find a way to participate in Music Ministry under these circumstances?

Any ideas?

My sympathies are 100% with you. What a mess. My situation was not quite the same but there are similarities. Here is what I would suggest.

Go ahead and be part of it. Learn your parts as well as you can. Hopefully try to get the music a head of time. Strive for perfection in your self but cease expecting it from the others. It sounds as if you are dealing with one or more people who are in “control” mode. They will not appreciate the fact that you know what you are doing so don’t expect any kind of thanks. Just patiently, kindly do what you must do. In time your quiet competent presence will be felt. Be willing to pitch in when an opportunity arises.

I also sense that there is a clique mentality going on. This sounds like a group of people who enjoy each other and really do not want someone coming in who knows what they are doing. They are having fun and don’t want you to spoil the party. Right off the bat, my advice to you is, “Forgive them.” Recognize what it going on and work within those parameters. Think of them as being God’s misbehaving children. Sigh a big sigh and try to not be become part of their drama.

As a musician, I know that whatever is going on in the choir, I have to be there. I can’t sit in the pews. I am meant to be in the choir.

You can give more to Christ by trying, with love and charity, change the dynamics of the situation. Offer all of this up to Jesus and just do the best you can do. You are allowed to go home and have a good cry from time to time though.

 

[insideitall]

this might be a dumb question… but why are you, as a newcomer (who has brought up your lack of knowledge/comfort with the music), expected to stand in front and lead?

I’m not a paid musician, but I am properly trained. I have two comments here:

first, I’ve noticed that with choirs in parishes that use “modern” music, the sense/impression is that you’re simply singing along, like you would to the radio. the choirs are made up of people that sing exactly the same way they do in the pews, except louder. all the practice in the world won’t fix the sound from people that don’t treat it with the appropriate level of seriousness. I can guarantee that I don’t sound nearly as wonderful when I sing along with the radio as I do when I’m in a “real singing” situtation! this extends to the people IN the pews, as well as to the cantors and lectors. if no one feels that it’s a big deal, even if they do practice, it’ll still be lacking. the attitude will bleed into the congregation, too. my current parish sings the ordinary in latin, and the hymnals have those parts printed with CHANT NOTATION so it’s pretty much guaranteed that even the people who can sort of read music can’t read this. yet somehow, the people are able to follow along, and they sound wonderful! before hearing it with my own ears, I would not have believed it to be possible - but this parish is much more reverent than many others I’ve been in.

second, I agree with what others have said about asking your priest if you could form a separate choir with a particular spin on it. I also agree that it is most likely he simply thinks you sound good, and that he might not necessarily be aware of the cliquishness or lack of effort the current members are showing.

I hope you’re able to work something out!

 

[Catholic1954]

Go with forming your own music team. I’m thinking that the priest is just as dissatisfied with the regular choir as you are, and he is seeing a chance to get the music quality up at least at one Mass. If the organist is offended, that’s her problem, this is a ministry and she is not the “star” of the show. Start with one of the less popular Mass times, like Saturday night or early Sunday morning and see how it goes! :harp:

 

[mcmitton]

Moving to a new town, and a new convert, I volunteered to help with music. There were no takers. There were 3 musicians: two musicians played together - keyboard and guitar, another played the keyboard. They alternated Sunday masses. I really understood. They were unpaid volunteers, and likely had no desire to spend more of their time away from home or work to integrate me into the services. It was OK with me.

But… one day, I received a hurried call at about 10:30 a.m. Could I play for the evening mass? The keyboard player was either ill or unable to get off work. Gulp! Yes, I said, but we’d need to practice now, and select music of older origin, as I had grown up Methodist, become Episcopalian, and only now was learning the post-Vatican II music. The guitarist and I met, rehearsed, and called it good. Dashed back home to “clean up” before the mass.

The mass was the Easter Vigil Mass!!!

Be ready. You never know if/when you’l be called.

 

[pianistclare]

this might be a dumb question… but why are you, as a newcomer (who has brought up your lack of knowledge/comfort with the music), expected to stand in front and lead?

I’m not a paid musician, but I am properly trained. I have two comments here:

first, I’ve noticed that with choirs in parishes that use “modern” music, the sense/impression is that you’re simply singing along, like you would to the radio. the choirs are made up of people that sing exactly the same way they do in the pews, except louder. all the practice in the world won’t fix the sound from people that don’t treat it with the appropriate level of seriousness. I can guarantee that I don’t sound nearly as wonderful when I sing along with the radio as I do when I’m in a “real singing” situtation! this extends to the people IN the pews, as well as to the cantors and lectors. if no one feels that it’s a big deal, even if they do practice, it’ll still be lacking. the attitude will bleed into the congregation, too. my current parish sings the ordinary in latin, and the hymnals have those parts printed with CHANT NOTATION so it’s pretty much guaranteed that even the people who can sort of read music can’t read this. yet somehow, the people are able to follow along, and they sound wonderful! before hearing it with my own ears, I would not have believed it to be possible - but this parish is much more reverent than many others I’ve been in.

second, I agree with what others have said about asking your priest if you could form a separate choir with a particular spin on it. I also agree that it is most likely he simply thinks you sound good, and that he might not necessarily be aware of the cliquishness or lack of effort the current members are showing.

I hope you’re able to work something out!

reminds me of a Jeanne Robertson joke:
She took a trip with the choir from the local Baptist church. She said:

I wouldn’t say they sang together…I would say they sang at the same time.

The interesting thing about chant: many pastors and music ministers are afraid of it. But because of the tempo and straightforward lines, limited range…people DO catch on really fast. Can be much easier to learn than the syncopated modern pieces. But many churches simply won’t go for it.

You hit upon a real problem. The choirs are more of a group of soloists fighting to be heard. NOT at all a choir that sings as one voice. Artificial amplification makes this even worse.
When designing a new church, the architect should takes pains to plan the space acoustically as well as to accommodate the amount of people. It will save the parish tens of thousands in sound expenses as well as being more conducive to prayer through song.

 

[pianistclare]

Moving to a new town, and a new convert, I volunteered to help with music. There were no takers. There were 3 musicians: two musicians played together - keyboard and guitar, another played the keyboard. They alternated Sunday masses. I really understood. They were unpaid volunteers, and likely had no desire to spend more of their time away from home or work to integrate me into the services. It was OK with me.

But… one day, I received a hurried call at about 10:30 a.m. Could I play for the evening mass? The keyboard player was either ill or unable to get off work. Gulp! Yes, I said, but we’d need to practice now, and select music of older origin, as I had grown up Methodist, become Episcopalian, and only now was learning the post-Vatican II music. The guitarist and I met, rehearsed, and called it good. Dashed back home to “clean up” before the mass.

The mass was the Easter Vigil Mass!!!

Be ready. You never know if/when you’l be called.

One of the times I was hired as Music Director my first Mass was Midnight Mass at Christmas.

 

[HelenRose]

Moving to a new town, and a new convert, I volunteered to help with music. There were no takers. There were 3 musicians: two musicians played together - keyboard and guitar, another played the keyboard. They alternated Sunday masses. I really understood. They were unpaid volunteers, and likely had no desire to spend more of their time away from home or work to integrate me into the services. It was OK with me.

But… one day, I received a hurried call at about 10:30 a.m. Could I play for the evening mass? The keyboard player was either ill or unable to get off work. Gulp! Yes, I said, but we’d need to practice now, and select music of older origin, as I had grown up Methodist, become Episcopalian, and only now was learning the post-Vatican II music. The guitarist and I met, rehearsed, and called it good. Dashed back home to “clean up” before the mass.

The mass was the Easter Vigil Mass!!!

Be ready. You never know if/when you’l be called.

The key is just that. Be ready, be willing and be patient. And do not hide your talents under a bushel. You are needed.

 

[Cat]

reminds me of a Jeanne Robertson joke:
She took a trip with the choir from the local Baptist church. She said:

I wouldn’t say they sang together…I would say they sang at the same time.

The interesting thing about chant: many pastors and music ministers are afraid of it. But because of the tempo and straightforward lines, limited range…people DO catch on really fast. Can be much easier to learn than the syncopated modern pieces. But many churches simply won’t go for it.

You hit upon a real problem. The choirs are more of a group of soloists fighting to be heard. NOT at all a choir that sings as one voice. Artificial amplification makes this even worse.
When designing a new church, the architect should takes pains to plan the space acoustically as well as to accommodate the amount of people. It will save the parish tens of thousands in sound expenses as well as being more conducive to prayer through song.

pianistclare, you know that I’m a pianist/organist, and I’ve played in churches for almost 50 years. I’ve been Catholic since 2004.

I just don’t think most people find chant “pretty.”

We all have such a rich medley of musical styles to listen to in our secular lives–everything from classical to jazz to bluegrass to folk to rock to rap to pop to opera to CCM…so many choices! All of these are easily accessible by most Americans through radio, TV, and computer.

The richness of the melodies and harmonies in many of these styles, the complexity of the rhythms, the gorgeous orchestrations, the messages of the lyrics, the rawness of the street music–so many beautiful choices for us!

Chant is not really very pretty at all. There are certain chants that are quite beautiful, but plainchant is just—monotone. My husband absolutely hates it and sees no point in praying with this method. He simply cannot believe that God listens harder to people who chant instead of just speaking their prayers.

And many people don’t sing correctly, so the very monotone chant is sung in nasal voices, off-pitch–this is…well, to be honest…really ugly.

I think a lot of Catholics feel the same way I do. They’re willing to have a small amount of chant in the Mass for the sake of carrying on Catholic tradition. But to have nothing but chant week after week, done by singers who don’t know how to sing–it’s hard to take.

If the Church actually forbad all forms of music except chant, I would of course comply. I wouldn’t like it, and I think I would find myself sneaking into various Protestant churches just to hear some good music again.

And I think a lot of Catholics would do the same. If we were allowed nothing but chant, I think the Church would see a steady stream of people leaving the Church over this–it’s just not…enough. Music is so amazing–why limit the Mass to a monotone drone of words? Makes no sense, and it’s not pretty. Thankfully, the Church has NOT limited Masses to just chant, and I don’t think they are will. In fact, I think that in the near future, the Church will get rid of the statements about “chant deserving pride of place” and open up the gates for all kinds of musical styles in the Mass. JMO, and I am aware that it horrifies many of you.

Now what does this have to do with the topic?

Well, it seems that some people on this thread are saying that the OPs problems would all be solved if only all the parishes would have chant throughout the Mass instead of the awful hymns.

That’s just nonsense. It won’t happen, and I don’t see the point of telling the OP such a thing. I don’t foresee a replacement of hymns by chant in most Masses in the U.S. I think we should stick with reality.

I still stand by my advice. I think the OP should back off and be patient. Other people are doing the music–let them do it. The OP should let them know that he’s available, and then smile and sit this one out. He will sleep better and have more peace in his mind.

 

[insideitall]

cat, I totally don’t mean this to come across with an attitude - but I’m honestly not sure how you came to the conclusion that either I or pianistclare were saying chant was better for the congregation, or prettier, or more appropriate, or more holy, or that other music should be banned, etc…

since my comment obviously caused you some confusion, let me clarify: I mentioned chant only to point out that I was pleasantly surprised to find that the congregation was able to follow along and pick up on something new, which was probably quite alien sounding to them, with unreadable notation, not to mention with latin text. I fully expected it to sound absolutely awful.

the point I was trying to make was that because chant has the whole “sacred music” thing going for it, people can’t help but feel like they’re supposed to sing like they mean it, put some effort into it, pay attention. maybe one day some of our more recently written hymns will have the same feel, but look at an example like these two, which I heard recently sung and so are fresh in my mind: amazing grace and that seashore song. amazing grace sounds great, but everyone zones out with the second. and it’s not just my current parish, or those particular songs - I’ve noticed this trend elsewhere, with other similar songs (one older and much more well known/respected hymn, the other much more recent).

no one said anything about ditching hymns solely for chant, or even replacing most hymns with chant, or anything about currently sung hymns being awful, or advised the op of any of this, either… it’s pretty clear you have a kneejerk reaction to any mention of chant since you dislike it so much, but really, no need to be so defensive. (normally I’d take personal offense to this but I went to confession yesterday and am still feeling quite magnanimous.)

have some , k?

 

[pianistclare]

Cat, I’m well aware of your musical abilities, and I’m sure you are of mine.

Your aversion to chant is no more or no less than many people’s aversion to Praise and Worship music. Catholics have a history with chant. It is quite beautiful, and St. Gregory the great is credited with giving the world musical notation, so it’s got a very high place in the realm of Catholic Church Music. Having said that, no, most parishes don’t want it. But some do advance it and cherish it.
Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s not pretty. It’s just not pretty to you.
Peace,
Clare

 

[ProVobis]

Cat, I’m well aware of your musical abilities, and I’m sure you are of mine.

Your aversion to chant is no more or no less than many people’s aversion to Praise and Worship music. Catholics have a history with chant. It is quite beautiful, and St. Gregory the great is credited with giving the world musical notation, so it’s got a very high place in the realm of Catholic Church Music. Having said that, no, most parishes don’t want it. But some do advance it and cherish it.
Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s not pretty. It’s just not pretty to you.
Peace,
Clare

I understand you serve the Spanish community as well. That’s probably a type of music that wouldn’t sit well with Anglophones. And vice versa.

I have to agree with you about chant. But it’s making strides in Africa and they’re flourishing so maybe let’s not give up with chant just yet. I know you won’t.