Music other than Gregorian Chant

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JuantheTuba

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So I know there are already topics and other various threads on subject like these, but many of them are very old or don’t answer my exact question.

I realize that many of you are supportive of Gregorian Chant and it’s place of honor in the Liturgical Music of the Church. But I’d like to hear what are your opinions, thoughts, comments and/ or feelings on the the other traditional musical mass settings like the Polyphonic music of the Renaissance, the Baroque, Classical, Romantic and Modern Classical Composers?

Do you think this music still has a place in Mass?

Do you feel some of it is too frivolous or too extravagant?

Is it conducive to a state of prayer or does it distract?

Do you like it?

etc.

Here’s an example of a 10 minute Gloria

youtube.com/watch?v=Ql3GMAqiSuM

Personally, as a former music student, I love the stuff. I’ll be honest the musical history of the church was one of the biggest factors in my decision to revert back to Catholicism. But it saddens me that it seems this tradition is starting to dry up. Even among traditional Catholics the emphasize is placed on Chant, while i do love it, after a while it can get a bit monotonous.

One of my favorite things about attending the local FSSP parish is before Mass begins the organist plays a bach prelude or fugue or some other Baroque piece, and it adds so much depth to my silent adoration of the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle, it’s as if the musical notes are speaking and carrying my prayers, it silences my mind and let’s me marvel at the beautifulness of Our Lord! And while Chant does do that, the other styles just seem to add something more.

So what say you?😃

Thank you in advance for the responses:thumbsup:
 
It is my opinion that this music is well suited for Mass.

Many, many, many people find this type of music boring and I think it’s a shame. I feel we are becoming more and more culturally bereft in our culture. Seems like all anyone cares about these days is entertainment and instant gratification.

Ah, anyway… yeah, in my opinion this kind of music suits the Mass very well.
 
This is, of course, wonderful music and should, by absolutely NO means, be excluded from the celebration of the Mass. I agree that chant does get a bit monotonous at times, and so I do love a good Mozart or Palestrina setting. In fact, if it was up to me, my parish would probably do an equal number of chant settings and sacred polyphonic settings. I absolutely love sacred polyphony.

I much prefer this to hymn-style settings that try too hard to evoke (IMO) superficial feelings. Sacred polyphony makes you think and feel, and that is why it is objectively superior music to what most parishes perform.

PS: I must say that I do love Paukenmesse! 😃
 
We have beautiful polyphony on Sundays and Feast days. Love, love it.
JuantheTuba said:
So I know there are already topics and other various threads on subject like these, but many of them are very old or don’t answer my exact question.

I realize that many of you are supportive of Gregorian Chant and it’s place of honor in the Liturgical Music of the Church. But I’d like to hear what are your opinions, thoughts, comments and/ or feelings on the the other traditional musical mass settings like the Polyphonic music of the Renaissance, the Baroque, Classical, Romantic and Modern Classical Composers?

Do you think this music still has a place in Mass?

Do you feel some of it is too frivolous or too extravagant?

Is it conducive to a state of prayer or does it distract?

Do you like it?

etc.

Here’s an example of a 10 minute Gloria

youtube.com/watch?v=Ql3GMAqiSuM

Personally, as a former music student, I love the stuff. I’ll be honest the musical history of the church was one of the biggest factors in my decision to revert back to Catholicism. But it saddens me that it seems this tradition is starting to dry up. Even among traditional Catholics the emphasize is placed on Chant, while i do love it, after a while it can get a bit monotonous.

One of my favorite things about attending the local FSSP parish is before Mass begins the organist plays a bach prelude or fugue or some other Baroque piece, and it adds so much depth to my silent adoration of the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle, it’s as if the musical notes are speaking and carrying my prayers, it silences my mind and let’s me marvel at the beautifulness of Our Lord! And while Chant does do that, the other styles just seem to add something more.

So what say you?😃

Thank you in advance for the responses:thumbsup:
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My favourite type of mass is a one with a polyphonic setting, one motet by the choir at communion and hymns at entrance, offertory, post communion and recessional.

I love Gregorian Chant at Vespers, and at mass when the Priest is able to chant properly the entrance rites and eucharistic prayer, but this is so rare and shows little sign of improving.
 
Having visited several High Episcopal and Anglican churches, I must admit to being a bit envious of their choirs. So the thought runs through my mind a lot: How can we make beautiful Catholic choirs more common, if not proliferous? I would be willing to do a lot to make that possible, but I am no musician, so I haven’t the faintest clue.
 
Havard said:
Having visited several High Episcopal and Anglican churches, I must admit to being a bit envious of their choirs. So the thought runs through my mind a lot: How can we make beautiful Catholic choirs more common, if not proliferous? I would be willing to do a lot to make that possible, but I am no musician, so I haven’t the faintest clue.
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Visit www.chantcafe.com While they specialize in chant, they love all sacred music. Their approach is one of education, primarily.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Visit www.chantcafe.com While they specialize in chant, they love all sacred music. Their approach is one of education, primarily.
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Interesting… I’m on the West coast but I’ll be in Philadelphia this weekend for my niece/Goddaughter’s First Communion this weekend (Saturday). And the top post on that site is about the (Philadelphia) Archdiocesan Choir having a concert at the Cathedral-Basilica on Sunday… how fortuitous! 🙂
 
Havard said:
Interesting… I’m on the West coast but I’ll be in Philadelphia this weekend for my niece/Goddaughter’s First Communion this weekend (Saturday). And the top post on that site is about the (Philadelphia) Archdiocesan Choir having a concert at the Cathedral-Basilica on Sunday… how fortuitous! 🙂
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Buy a ticket! It will be magnificent! You will hear Coronation Mass, a favorite of mine!
 
Havard said:
Having visited several High Episcopal and Anglican churches, I must admit to being a bit envious of their choirs. So the thought runs through my mind a lot: How can we make beautiful Catholic choirs more common, if not proliferous? I would be willing to do a lot to make that possible, but I am no musician, so I haven’t the faintest clue.
Click to expand...
We had a lot of great Catholic choirs fifty years ago. The modernists disbanded most of them when they dumbed down the liturgy into the four hymn sandwich in vogue today.
 
roadsend said:
We had a lot of great Catholic choirs fifty years ago. The modernists disbanded most of them when they dumbed down the liturgy into the four hymn sandwich in vogue today.
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According to all the histories I have read, (1) we did not actually have all that many great Catholic choirs fifty years ago, and (2) the four-hymn sandwich was quite standard well before the Second Vatican Council.
 
MarkThompson said:
According to all the histories I have read, (1) we did not actually have all that many great Catholic choirs fifty years ago, and (2) the four-hymn sandwich was quite standard well before the Second Vatican Council.
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I don’t know how old you were at the time of Vat 2, but I don’t have to read histories to have a pretty good idea of what was going on at that time. I was singing in a competent, if not great, choir for almost ten years before Vat 2. There were great choirs in just about every big city and quite a few smaller towns.
The four hymn sandwich was used at low Mass only, never at a High Mass. It would have been unthinkable on a feast day such as Easter or Christmas. As a bonus the hymns used were actually Catholic.
 
roadsend said:
We had a lot of great Catholic choirs fifty years ago. The modernists disbanded most of them when they dumbed down the liturgy into the four hymn sandwich in vogue today.
Click to expand...
It’s perfectly possible to have a great choir singing the Ordinary to a polyphonic setting, and to have hymns too. This is what Anglicans do so well. There are some good Catholic choirs in central London but almost all the local parish ones are just abysmal.
 
liturgyluver said:
It’s perfectly possible to have a great choir singing the Ordinary to a polyphonic setting, and to have hymns too. This is what Anglicans do so well. There are some good Catholic choirs in central London but almost all the local parish ones are just abysmal.
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It seems a bit like a kick in the teeth to have a Palestrina or Mozart or Haydn setting and then sing random hymns in place of the Gregorian Propers, and I don’t mean to be rude by saying that. That’s kind of self-defeating, I think, in the context of Catholicism.
 
YoungTradCath said:
It seems a bit like a kick in the teeth to have a Palestrina or Mozart or Haydn setting and then sing random hymns in place of the Gregorian Propers, and I don’t mean to be rude by saying that. That’s kind of self-defeating, I think, in the context of Catholicism.
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I respect your opinion but don’t agree that it would be a kick in the teeth. 95% of the time the propers are not recited at all, so proper and traditional liturgical hymns (which Catholic music directors are so poor at selecting) can work really well with a polyphonic setting. I have even been to churches where the Introit and Communion propers are sung by the choir followed respectively by a processional and post-communion hymn. (I dislike hymns during the distribution of communion).
 
liturgyluver said:
It’s perfectly possible to have a great choir singing the Ordinary to a polyphonic setting, and to have hymns too. This is what Anglicans do so well. There are some good Catholic choirs in central London but almost all the local parish ones are just abysmal.
Click to expand...
That’s kind of unfair. Catholics weren’t even allowed in Britain until maybe around 1850. It is my understanding that the Anglicans still control, if you will, Christianity in the U.K. One would expect them to have a certain amount of “superiority” in English singing.
 
ProVobis said:
That’s kind of unfair. Catholics weren’t even allowed in Britain until maybe around 1850. It is my understanding that the Anglicans still control, if you will, Christianity in the U.K. One would expect them to have a certain amount of “superiority” in English singing.
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It was actually 1829, and at that time there was virtually no hymnody in the Anglican Church. Robed choirs only became common in the late 19th century and even then was confined to the Offices of Matins and Evensong, so they hadn’t had any kind of head start.

It’s not a question of control - it’s a question of effort, and sadly the average Catholic Parish seems simply not interested in developing good music. They are certainly not prevented from doing so by the Anglicans, and Catholic choirs have gone downhill over the last 30 years or so to the point where poor and indisciplined choirs are now sadly the norm. And it’s not just confined to UK: look at the European choirs - apart from the Germans and Austrians, all equally abysmal. No wonder the Pope invited the Westminster Abbey choir to sing at the Vatican for St Peter’s Day.
 
ProVobis said:
That’s kind of unfair. Catholics weren’t even allowed in Britain until maybe around 1850. It is my understanding that the Anglicans still control, if you will, Christianity in the U.K. One would expect them to have a certain amount of “superiority” in English singing.
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Incidently, it’s nonsence to say that catholics weren’t allowed in England until 1850. Catholic chapels had opened in the 18th Century, though were still subject to some hostility. John Henry Newman converted in the 1840s.
 
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