Music Problems in Catholic Parishes

[TK421]

There are a few things I’ve noticed in several different parishes, at least along the New Mexico/Colorado area:

1. The choir doesn’t wait for people to get out their books before they start singing. Example: a choir lady will announce “page 345” and then they just instantly bust out their guitars and start singing ,and I’m sitting there thinking to myself, “Did I black out for 10 seconds and then regain consciousness?”. This actually happened at my home parish too until I joined choir and brought it up at choir practice and the girl that announces the songs pauses now, thank Heavens. A lot of the congregation still doesn’t get out the books and sing though, but that wouldn’t surprise me if the choir has just ignored them for an unknown number of years.
2. Awkward number of books. There’s 2 or 3 different song books either sitting in the pews or in the back before you enter the sanctuary, not just one book to go to.

Are these oddities common in parishes across the United States? #1 is particularly frustrating to me because it seems so common sense that it hurts. It would be like as a teacher, I tell my 7-year-olds to grab their reading books and turn to page 68, and then I instantly start teaching while they’re panicky still flipping through their books. It’s completely unacceptable. If I was being observed doing that the principal would reprimand me.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am guessing that the choir lady who “announces” the page number is used to being in a parish that has signage available, the kind with those little numbers that you pull out of a box and stick onto the sign. In that case, people find the music in their books ahead of time, and only have to locate which of the listed songs is being sung when the announcement comes.

The problem of two or three different music books comes because parishes want more music than what is provided in the annual missal. There is the missal, the “music issue” and then the third, which might be the Spanish music issue, the hard-bound music issue, or some other unique resource.

What I would do in your place is to make yourself and your 7 year old a few cardboard bookmarks with several different-colored ribbons coming out of the end of it. (You could attach the ribbon ends to cardstock and then glue cardstock on either side to make a sandwich.) Make the ribbons several inches longer than the books, so that you can pre-mark many different pages. It would be nice if parishes could afford to furnish these, but very few can.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am guessing that the choir lady who “announces” the page number is used to being in a parish that has signage available, the kind with those little numbers that the music leader will pull out of a box and stick onto the sign before the choir even starts to warm up. In that case, people use the signs to find the music in their books ahead of time, and only have to locate which of the listed songs is being sung when the announcement comes.

The problem of two or three different music books comes because parishes want more music than what is provided in the annual missal. There is the missal, the “music issue” and then the third, which might be the Spanish music issue, the hard-bound music issue, or some other unique resource.

What I would do in your place is to make yourself and your 7 year old a few cardboard bookmarks with several different-colored ribbons coming out of the end of it. (You could attach the ribbon ends to cardstock and then glue cardstock on either side to make a sandwich.) Make the ribbons several inches longer than the books, so the bookmark can be in the front of the book and the ribbons will still stick out the other end of the pages they are marking. This way, you can pre-mark many different pages before Mass ever starts. It would be nice if parishes could afford to furnish these, but very few can.

 

[pnewton]

I use a sign board. A few times a year when I have to improvise, I always give a little more time, or a longer intro.

By improvise, I mean I mess up on a number, a song, have to add another song or some such change.

 

[pianistclare]

I use a sign board. A few times a year when I have to improvise, I always give a little more time, or a longer intro.

By improvise, I mean I mess up on a number, a song, have to add another song or some such change.

Yes. Exactly.
Also, parishes should chose ONE hymnal and stick to it.

 

[WillyAL]

A lot of the congregation still doesn’t get out the books and sing…

I am a non-Catholic with a mainline protestant background who attends Sunday Mass with my Catholic wife. Of all the things that puzzle me about Catholics, one of the most puzzling is the fact that most make absolutely no effort to sing. If, heaven forbid, the cantor calls in sick, all the hymns just fade away to nothing half way through the first verse. At first I thought it was just the parish where we attend Mass, but a few weeks ago we were at the cathedral for Mass. The place was packed. I thought to myself, “Finally there will be some good singing.” Nope. Same thing.

In the OP’s case, the “choir lady” probably assumes that since no one will be singing anyway, there is no need to wait for them to find the correct page.

 

[TK421]

Yeah, the musical malaise is quite a downer. It causes me sadness during Mass. Electrical jolts connected to the pews might be effective, but I don’t want to go to prison.

I’m curious if there isn’t some historical reason related to the lack of ardor in worship. Did Catholics typically sing in Mass prior to Vatican II?

 

[pianistclare]

Yeah, the musical malaise is quite a downer. It causes me sadness during Mass. I’m curious if there isn’t some historical reason related to the lack of ardor in worship. Did Catholics typically sing in Mass prior to Vatican II.

No. they never sang.
In past eras, singing was not done by the lay people.
They’ve never warmed up to it.
Like most things, lay folks feel they 're not “formed enough” to sing at church.
Every excuse in the book. They use the similar tactic when asked to teach Sunday School, volunteer at the jails, work in the parish nursery…
“who ME? I couldn’t possibly”!
This gets reinforced by those who feel we should attend Mass and simply watch the priest make an offering on our behalf.
Full participation was encouraged by Vatican II. People still don’t. And then when they do, others cry foul.

Not that everyone has the same gifts of course. But what’s anyone’s excuse for NOT singing Immaculate Mary or Holy God We Praise Thy Name?
The hymnals are full of old hymns that everyone knows.

But let that same cantor hit a sour note! EGAD!

No one ever tells people that singing is a form of prayer.

 

[ProVobis]

Did Catholics typically sing in Mass prior to Vatican II?

From what I remember, the priest after the Leonine Prayers facing the altar would start

Holy God, We Praise Thy Name
Immaculate Mary
Come Holy Ghost.
…
and the congregation would follow for the most part. These hymns were typically songs Catholics learned in school or from their parents.

In fairness, though, Vatican II only mentioned Gregorian Chant as far as music went and AFAIK, there have not been any major documents requiring or suggesting hymns. For the most part, I believe the 4-hymn sandwich came as a surprise to most Catholics right after the council.

 

[Allegra]

I’m curious if there isn’t some historical reason related to the lack of ardor in worship. Did Catholics typically sing in Mass prior to Vatican II?

They generally sang the Mass parts. Often the hymns would be polyphonic and not at all conducive to congregational singing.

 

[TK421]

I suspected that might be it. False humility seems to be the #1 obstacle the American Catholic Church faces today.

 

[pianistclare]

People have to be TOLD to sing?
Really?

 

[ctb95]

I am a non-Catholic with a mainline protestant background who attends Sunday Mass with my Catholic wife. Of all the things that puzzle me about Catholics, one of the most puzzling is the fact that most make absolutely no effort to sing. If, heaven forbid, the cantor calls in sick, all the hymns just fade away to nothing half way through the first verse. At first I thought it was just the parish where we attend Mass, but a few weeks ago we were at the cathedral for Mass. The place was packed. I thought to myself, “Finally there will be some good singing.” Nope. Same thing.

In the OP’s case, the “choir lady” probably assumes that since no one will be singing anyway, there is no need to wait for them to find the correct page.

It can vary from church to church. I’ve been to churches where everyone sings and churches where no one sings. I think it stems from before Vatican II. Traditionally, congregational hymns weren’t common during mass and the choir usually sang the mass setting, so there were very few opportunities for congregations to sing.

 

[Edmundus1581]

I suspected that might be it. False humility seems to be the #1 obstacle the American Catholic Church faces today.

That is also the case in Australia, where our whole culture places a high value on false humility, except for elite (sic) sports men and women, and the rich.

 

[7_Sorrows]

we have 2 Masses in our church that use the English songbook and 1 Mass that uses songsheets - they sing more contemporary songs.
The Spanish Mass uses the Spanish songbook.

I feel sorry for people that grab a songbook instead of the songsheet
for the second Mass because their songbook is of no use.

 

[Edmundus1581]

They generally sang the Mass parts. Often the hymns would be polyphonic and not at all conducive to congregational singing.

I’ve read different accounts, here in CAF. Someone posted that in his pre-VII parishes the priest would lead a few hymns *a-capella * (selected from the well-known standards), and the congregation joined in quite well.

We have also had people here argue quite strongly that one can participate in mass with prayerful, silent, reflection during the hymns, while others choose to sing. I don’t know whether the non-singers at Catholic Masses are consciously taking that option.

…
Like most things, lay folks feel they 're not “formed enough” to sing at church.
Every excuse in the book. They use the similar tactic when asked to teach Sunday School, volunteer at the jails, work in the parish nursery…
“who ME? I couldn’t possibly”!

This gets reinforced by those who feel we should attend Mass and simply watch the priest make an offering on our behalf.
Full participation was encouraged by Vatican II. People still don’t. And then when they do, others cry foul.

:yup:

 

[Phemie]

Yeah, the musical malaise is quite a downer. It causes me sadness during Mass. Electrical jolts connected to the pews might be effective, but I don’t want to go to prison.

I’m curious if there isn’t some historical reason related to the lack of ardor in worship. Did Catholics typically sing in Mass prior to Vatican II?

Pre Vatican II, only the choir sang during the Mass. Unless you were lucky enough to live in a parish where they celebrated dialogue Masses the person in the pew said not a word during Mass. You will never know how difficult it was for people to actually give responses when Mass was first celebrated in the vernacular. Responses were whispered at best because people who were conditioned not to speak in church just couldn’t get past that.

Of course there are still parishes where singing by the community has never been encouraged. The parish where I grew up does not have hymnals, the choir sings different hymns and different settings too often for anyone to memorize them and the community sees someone singing in the pews as dissing the choir. My parents have even said, “The choir doesn’t need your help,” if I sang because they happened to sing something I knew.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I sometimes wonder if the priests gaze out to the congregation to see who is singing and who is not singing.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Pre Vatican II, only the choir sang during the Mass. Unless you were lucky enough to live in a parish where they celebrated dialogue Masses the person in the pew said not a word during Mass. You will never know how difficult it was for people to actually give responses when Mass was first celebrated in the vernacular. Responses were whispered at best because people who were conditioned not to speak in church just couldn’t get past that.

Interesting! Thanks for the info. I can imagine it must have been very disconcerting to have to speak in Mass, if you were used to silence.

Of course there are still parishes where singing by the community has never been encouraged. The parish where I grew up does not have hymnals, the choir sings different hymns and different settings too often for anyone to memorize them and the community sees someone singing in the pews as dissing the choir. My parents have even said, “The choir doesn’t need your help,” if I sang because they happened to sing something I knew.

We don’t often hear of parishes where singing is actually discouraged The far more common situation seems to be that the clergy and musicians want the congregation to join in, but the congregation, particularly the men, refuse. OTOH, we have sometimes observed here in CAF that the musicians can unintentionally discourage participation, by their choice of songs. (I personally sing in a choir where this happens. The people who select the songs seem to be entirely oblivious to the preferences of the congregation, and yet want the congregation to sing).

 

[Kurisu35712]

I usually don’t sing if I don’t know the song well enough that I’m familiar with it. Depending on what parish you go to, sometimes they sing some of the less well-known hymns. I’m most familiar with the ones my elementary school would use, and then the ones that the church closest to our house was. This was in the New Orleans area though, where if you missed 12:00 pm mass, you can just go four blocks away to the church having mass at 2:00. Where we live now, we usually go to the youth mass at 5:00 pm, which in all honesty I’d prefer to go to the ones earlier in the day just because of the music. Hardly any of the songs they use are classical hymns, and they’re really hard to sing along to in most cases, plus they change them up frequently.

The church I go to when I’m at school, however, has extremely wonderful music, and in fact have their choirs divided up into about 6 different groups that alternate masses on Sunday, with extras that can substitute in if necessary. There’s a large Catholic student body in an already immense student population though, with a huge number of people that volunteer to sing at masses. They’re all extremely good, and have a much better organized “menu” so to speak. Usually they’ll have a traditional hymn or two with some of the more reserved contemporary songs, and they all fit in better, though that might just be because the choirs themselves are generally made up of better singers.

As far as hymnals go, I’ve noticed that it varies a lot. My home parish now has I believe two hymnals and the missalette, but that’s because one of the hymnals is Spanish language. For the youth mass, they have stacks of songsheets placed on podiums near the entrance of the narthex. Masses at school are similar. They have the songsheets stacked at one end of the pews and ask the congregation to pass them down before mass starts, and then again to pass them back to the center at the end. I think there’s also two hymnals, one English and one Spanish. Most of the churches I grew up going to would have the plastic book cover/portfolio thing that holds one cover of the missalette on one end and the back cover of a paperback hymnal on the other. A few churches would have that and then a larger hymnal separate, but most of the songs would be in the paperback one. They would usually have the signs next to the altar, and then also announce the number before singing, as well as which hymnal to use if there were more than one.