Music Problems in Catholic Parishes

[Inquiringperson]

Interesting!
We don’t often hear of parishes where singing is actually discouraged The far more common situation seems to be that the clergy and musicians want the congregation to join in, but the congregation, particularly the men, refuse. OTOH, we have sometimes observed here in CAF that the musicians can unintentionally discourage participation, by their choice of songs. (I personally sing in a choir where this happens. The people who select the songs seem to be entirely oblivious to the preferences of the congregation, and yet want the congregation to sing).

By that, do you mean that the song selectors selected syncopated hymns that are super hard to sing?

 

[ProVobis]

Pre Vatican II, only the choir sang during the Mass.

That would be the Missa Cantata and most parishes had only one per Sunday. Everything was in Latin except maybe for the closing hymn. Most Masses were Missa Lecta (aka Low Masses, and as I’ve stated before a closing hymn, which most knew the words to, were sung.

You will never know how difficult it was for people to actually give responses when Mass was first celebrated in the vernacular.

But how could that be when many who have posted here reported that they were happy with all the changes and be able to respond and sing in the vernacular?

 

[ProVobis]

I sometimes wonder if the priests gaze out to the congregation to see who is singing and who is not singing.

It’s somewhat intimidating, IMO.

 

[Phemie]

That would be the Missa Cantata and most parishes had only one per Sunday. Everything was in Latin except maybe for the closing hymn. Most Masses were Missa Lecta (aka Low Masses, and as I’ve stated before a closing hymn, which most knew the words to, were sung.

That totally depended on where you lived. We travelled around quite a bit in the summer and went to Mass in many different parishes. There was no one but the choir singing at any of the Masses we attended. Even some of the hymns that were so well known in our French parish (the original French “Immaculate Mary” for example) that they were sung by students in school or around the piano at family functions were only sung by the choir at Mass.

It appears that there were areas where dialogue Mass was the norm but I never experienced such a Mass in my Canadian province. No one responded but the altar server and no one sang except the choir.

 

[Used2beSherryG]

I have never belonged to a parish where participation was a problem. My old parish (before moving into retirement area) was very large with seating for 1500, and everyone sang. It was beautiful. After moving to a new area, the parish is small with only about 200 members, however the church just did a large addition to accommodate vacationing families. Everyone sings here also. We use a missalette that contains all the Sunday readings and all the hymns. There is a sign board up front so we can look up all the music ahead of time and mark the pages. The sign board even enumerates the Gloria version, the Holy, Holy, Holy, too. I attend daily Mass and everyone sings then, too!

 

[HelenRose]

There are a few things I’ve noticed in several different parishes, at least along the New Mexico/Colorado area:

1. The choir doesn’t wait for people to get out their books before they start singing. Example: a choir lady will announce “page 345” and then they just instantly bust out their guitars and start singing ,and I’m sitting there thinking to myself, “Did I black out for 10 seconds and then regain consciousness?”. This actually happened at my home parish too until I joined choir and brought it up at choir practice and the girl that announces the songs pauses now, thank Heavens. A lot of the congregation still doesn’t get out the books and sing though, but that wouldn’t surprise me if the choir has just ignored them for an unknown number of years.
2. Awkward number of books. There’s 2 or 3 different song books either sitting in the pews or in the back before you enter the sanctuary, not just one book to go to.

Are these oddities common in parishes across the United States? #1 is particularly frustrating to me because it seems so common sense that it hurts. It would be like as a teacher, I tell my 7-year-olds to grab their reading books and turn to page 68, and then I instantly start teaching while they’re panicky still flipping through their books. It’s completely unacceptable. If I was being observed doing that the principal would reprimand me.

As a musician in a our little mission Church in Cedaredge, Western Colorado, I am so glad that the members of our congregation don’t sit around and complain about us. They understand that we are doing the best we can and they often tell us how much they appreciate what we do. The problem you state is easily solved by looking at the numbers that are generally placed in plain sight on a board in the front of the church. If you don’t have such a board they are relatively inexpensive and it might be a nice gesture for you to purchase one for the choir and the congregation.

 

[Ontheway]

I am a non-Catholic with a mainline protestant background who attends Sunday Mass with my Catholic wife. Of all the things that puzzle me about Catholics, one of the most puzzling is the fact that most make absolutely no effort to sing. If, heaven forbid, the cantor calls in sick, all the hymns just fade away to nothing half way through the first verse. At first I thought it was just the parish where we attend Mass, but a few weeks ago we were at the cathedral for Mass. The place was packed. I thought to myself, “Finally there will be some good singing.” Nope. Same thing.

In the OP’s case, the “choir lady” probably assumes that since no one will be singing anyway, there is no need to wait for them to find the correct page.

There are two hymn books in use in my church. Each has around 1000 hymns. I don’t know who and how selects the hymns that are sung here, but they are not familiar.

Since I have had no voice training, most of the songs sung are all but impossible to follow. Most are for high soprano, so that leaves my baritone voice out. Most are way too fast and way too complex musically to follow, unless one practices them with the choir for a few weeks. The results are what you are witnessing.

The hymns I hear do not lend themselves to singing. Even if one is, and I learn it after a few weeks, it gets replaced by something horrid.

As you can see, I have issues with what my church is doing to church music.

 

[ProVobis]

It appears that there were areas where dialogue Mass was the norm but I never experienced such a Mass in my Canadian province. No one responded but the altar server and no one sang except the choir.

The servers actually had to learn quite a bit. Psalm 42, for example. But most of the responses other than that were relatively easy. My dad taught me “Et cum spiritu tuo” when I was very young in London. And even public school kids knew the Latin Gloria and Credo by heart. (of course they heard more of it at the High Mass.) They put us Catholic school kids to shame.

BTW, our choir in Chicago was quite large and didn’t seem to have much problem drawing in those who wanted to sing, adults for the most part. And some of those voices, wow. I can still hear the “Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini. Hosanna in excelsis.”

 

[TK421]

I suppose I have a bit of a polemic thinking when it comes to the congregation singing. Everybody singing is the background I was raised with; the evangelical church of my childhood was loud and joyous compared to what I have experienced in parishes thus far. I didn’t look around and observe individuals, but it would seem almost the entire congregation sang.

I can also see a certain serene beauty in a quiet congregation, such as I suppose would be before Vatican II. What I have a hard time appreciating is a congregation that seems divided amongst itself. 1/3rd sing, 1/3rd have the Bambi look, and sort of sing for awhile with a look of slight confusion and fear in their eyes, and 1/3rd give the thousand yard stare and may or may not secretly have X-ray vision and are looking past the wall. With the exception of after receiving Eucharist, where some might be moved to silent prayer (I normally run my tongue along every corner of my mouth and then go back to singing, but that’s in part because I’ve become a bit of a crusader over this whole “singing” business that is lacking in parishes) I can’t see any value in a congregation that doesn’t sing when it is suppose to be participating in the liturgy, and I don’t like scattered individuals doing it here and there while others don’t. In that case, I would prefer an exclusive choir that does all the singing.

 

[powerofk]

There are a few problems, really. At my parish, we used to have 3 books as well, plus a “music supplement” for songs that our “Pastoral Associate for Liturgy and Music” (she’s actually paid to be the primary choir director and lay minister scheduler - among other things) likes to play for the congregation to sing - but are not included in the currently printed books by Oregon Catholic Press. We had a missal, songbook, and Spanish songbook. Our Spanish songbooks were out of shape (seriously, they were falling apart at the seams), and were cost-prohibitive to replace, so my parish replaced OCP’s “Breaking Bread” and their Spanish songbook “Flor y Canto” with a bilingual songbook. This actually saves space, but we still have the “musical supplements”. Regardless, though, she often chooses songs that are more contemporary and quite difficult to sing (and yes, I do try to sing them - but, unfortunately, most of the congregation wouldn’t sing even if the songs were easy to sing). At the Spanish Masses, the Spanish speakers will at least clap along to their traditional songs, though - and at one of the Spanish Masses, the choir leader just passes out sheets of traditional sacred Spanish music. At that Mass, they don’t even bother with the books.

So, go figure.

 

[powerofk]

I suppose I have a bit of a polemic thinking when it comes to the congregation singing. Everybody singing is the background I was raised with; the evangelical church of my childhood was loud and joyous compared to what I have experienced in parishes thus far. I didn’t look around and observe individuals, but it would seem almost the entire congregation sang.

I can also see a certain serene beauty in a quiet congregation, such as I suppose would be before Vatican II. What I have a hard time appreciating is a congregation that seems divided amongst itself. 1/3rd sing, 1/3rd sort of sing for awhile, and 1/3rd give the thousand yard stare. With the exception of after receiving Eucharist, where some might be moved to silent prayer (I always make sure my mouth is completely empty of all crumbs, and then go back to singing, but that 's in part because I’ve become a bit of a crusader over this whole “singing” business that is lacking in parishes) I can’t see any value in a congregation that doesn’t sing when it is suppose to be participating in the liturgy, and I don’t like scattered individuals doing it here and there while others don’t. In that case, I would prefer an exclusive choir that does all the singing.

When I was growing up, I went to a Catholic elementary school from 1st through 4th grade. The choir director would actually encourage us to sing - he would practice the hymns with us every Friday.

 

[ccmcmg]

One of my reasons that I ‘tolerate’ the distractions of the Life Teen Mass is because overall, the music can be amazing. It’s more contemporary (usually Catholic) and doesn’t go against Catholic teachings. If only we would sing the traditional Catholic hymns during any of the other Masses, and then with such fervor.

To me, singing is praying twice. I know many people who love singing and are very enthusiastic. So, it’s not all Catholics or parishes that are without singing. I’ve been to some that are, and even the nearby Cathedral outside of our diocese, as I posted last week, struggle for various reasons.

Two weeks ago before the LifeTeen Mass, we heard “Come Holy Spirit”…you are welcome here…twice on the radio, and then we sang it as our opening hymn! Amen amen amen!! Then, we closed with Matt Maher. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[HelenRose]

Acoustics may also have a part to play in whether or not a congregation will sing. In some buildings voices blend and when a person is singing they do not feel alone in a vacuum. In other buildings a person can not hear those around them. I have sung in choirs and when I am not in a choir and will sing in the congregation. I feel confident singing but it makes a huge difference to me if my voice sounds lost and alone or if I hear the voices of others.

 

[ProVobis]

Acoustics may also have a part to play in whether or not a congregation will sing. In some buildings voices blend and when a person is singing they do not feel alone in a vacuum. In other buildings a person can not hear those around them. I have sung in choirs and when I am not in a choir and will sing in the congregation. I feel confident singing but it makes a huge difference to me if my voice sounds lost and alone or if I hear the voices of others.

I tend to agree with you here. Sometimes during the High Mass those around me will sing the Credo III and sometimes I will be the only one. I will tend to be quieter when singing alone.

As far as choirs go, shouldn’t they be louder than the congregation? Isn’t that their purpose, if not to lead? I mean, if you want to sing loud, join or form a choir.

 

[Norm_The_Robot]

The parishes I have been to in my area have a projection screen somewhere up front upon which PowerPoint slides are projected throughout mass that have everything the congregants are expected to say throughout mass, All the responses, prayers etc. This included lyrics for the music and hymns. Makes it easy for everyone to participate and sing!

 

[TK421]

Yeah, there’s a parish an hour north of me that does this, and it seems very effective for the liturgy. I’ve noticed the participation/life/reverence in that parish is better than any other ones I’ve been to. Because of how the liturgy is structured, this is actually even more useful for Catholic parishes than protestant congregations, but I’ve only been to one Catholic Church so far that uses screens. Maybe there’s a confused understanding that screens take away from the sacredness of the sanctuary.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

No one ever tells people that singing is a form of prayer.

When you sing you pray twice!

 

[Brendan_64]

OTOH, we have sometimes observed here in CAF that the musicians can unintentionally discourage participation, by their choice of songs. (I personally sing in a choir where this happens. The people who select the songs seem to be entirely oblivious to the preferences of the congregation, and yet want the congregation to sing).

I think you are right there. Another thing to recognise is that not everybody actually likes singing, and the fact that some of us have dreadful singing voices, so don’y want to sing too loudly. People who like singing, such as members of the choir, are good at singing, enjoy it, and seem to think everyone else does too.

I also think that sometimes there can be a tendency on behalf of musical directors and the choir to over-estimate the importance of singing, sometimes appearing to almost think that it is singing that makes the liturgy. To the point that sometimes when you’re trying to sit in silent prayer before Mass begins you have the music director calling through the PA system explaining the hymns that are going to be sung and trying to get the congregation to practice.

The best way to encourage participation is to choose old hymns that everybody knows and then just belt them out in a plain, uncomplicated manner, without trying to get all fancy about tone, pitch and musical accompaniment. Those of us who aren’t musical just get put off when things start to get a bit too fancy or complex, and please don’t try to get us to warm up, and don’t give us musical score, we don’t understand what musical notes are, let alone be able to read them.

 

[TK421]

The best way to encourage participation is to choose old hymns that everybody knows and then just belt them out in a plain, uncomplicated manner, without trying to get all fancy about tone, pitch and musical accompaniment. Those of us who aren’t musical just get put off when things start to get a bit too fancy or complex, and please don’t try to get us to warm up, and don’t give us musical score, we don’t understand what musical notes are, let alone be able to read them.

Yes this makes sense. Complex music shouldn’t be sung when it’s for everybody.

 

[ProVobis]

Maybe there’s a confused understanding that screens take away from the sacredness of the sanctuary.

Good point.