Music Problems in Catholic Parishes

[HelenRose]

I tend to agree with you here. Sometimes during the High Mass those around me will sing the Credo III and sometimes I will be the only one. I will tend to be quieter when singing alone.

As far as choirs go, shouldn’t they be louder than the congregation? Isn’t that their purpose, if not to lead? I mean, if you want to sing loud, join or form a choir.

I would hate to have someone compliment me or my choir with, “Boy you were sure loud today.”

 

[WillyAL]

Did Catholics typically sing in Mass prior to Vatican II?

I’ve heard the “Vatican II” explanation before. But how long ago was that? Wasn’t that like mid-1960’s? It seems like singing would have caught on by now.

I sometimes wonder if the priests gaze out to the congregation to see who is singing and who is not singing.

We had a substitute priest one Sunday who must have been a fan of singing. The regular priest was on vacation and, unfortunately, so was the cantor. The further up the aisle the procession got, the more the gathering hymn faded away. When the procession reached the communion rail this priest turned around to face the choir loft and started yelling for the organist to stop. It took a few seconds to get the organist’s attention, but he finally stopped playing. The priest said, “This is a song people. You’re supposed to sing. Mr. Organist…from the top!” Everyone was so stunned that they actually made an effort to sing. Unfortunately, it didn’t last long. One of the more entertaining Masses I’ve attended.

[T]he evangelical church of my childhood was loud and joyous compared to what I have experienced in parishes thus far.

Yes, I too have fond memories of the pipe organ accompanying an enthusiastic congregation belting out “A Mighty Fortress Is Our God” or “Onward Christian Soldiers.”

 

[TK421]

I’ve heard the “Vatican II” explanation before. But how long ago was that? Wasn’t that like mid-1960’s? It seems like singing would have caught on by now.

Cultural changes are slow & difficult. The black community stopped being persecuted by the State in the 1960s but it’s hardly to be expected for them to be economically equal with the the white majority by now.

Regardless of what individuals in Mass may do, I think it’s important that the pastor/choir/leadership provide the right conditions to encourage an enthusiastic participation in the liturgy. This would include:

1. Singable songs. Knock it off with constantly changing things around in complex ways.
2. Giving the congregation time to turn to the right page
3. Not an overbearing choir that shouts out over the voices of the congregation. The congregation has to be able to feel awkward if they aren’t singing.

My experiences have made me even a little suspicious if a choir is always even beneficial towards the liturgy, since it might make the congregation lax to sing themselves. I’m in the choir and I’m not really happy in saying this.

 

[KD8TZC]

I must be lucky, as most people sing at my parish. One thing I have noticed though, and maybe it is just a coincidence, but the churches that have a grade school with them generally will all participate in the singing. I know it is not all the kids singing, but the adults are the ones singing too.

 

[HelenRose]

There are several things that must come together to help congregation sing.

As I mentioned before acoustics play an important part.
A leader or cantor who is skilled at “leading” the congregation.
Appropriate, beautiful and rather easy songs. Simple Latin songs as well. “Ave Maria Gratia Plena” is one such song and so is “Dona Nobis”
On going music and singing programs for all the children. If a child is not singing by the time they are teenagers, it is very hard for them to do make that leap.
Patience and encouragement.

“Sing damnit” is not going to work.

Those of us who do sing must realize how difficult it is for those who do not. It is like learning a new language. People who haven’t sung as a child and have not been raised singing are intimated by the mere thought of exposing themselves. Singing opens each person up to ridicule. Singing involves muscles that need to be trained. Just as it is easy for children to learn a new language, children will pick up singing naturally. It is possible to learn how to sing after we grow up, but it is not as easy and it does not come naturally.

A congregation that sings does not happen by accident. It takes thought, study and understanding to make that work.

 

[Mary_Ellen]

We use a projector and PowerPoint to display song numbers for the congregation to follow. When I am the song leader I make sure the people have as much time as possible to see the song number before we start singing. Unfortunately, some others who run the projector flash up the numbers just before we start singing and it drives me nuts, just for the reason the OP started this thread.

If the song is not in the hymnals and we have copyright permission, we will display the words of the refrain or even the whole song on the wall.

As for participation, my congregations generally do very well, at least on weekends. With the mass ordinaries they are great - I back off the microphone completely unless they are dragging down the tempo too much. With the hymns they do pretty well, even with new songs there are enough who try to sing along that I can see them following along in the books and actually hear them singing.

 

[johnnyc176]

I suppose I have a bit of a polemic thinking when it comes to the congregation singing. Everybody singing is the background I was raised with; the evangelical church of my childhood was loud and joyous compared to what I have experienced in parishes thus far. I didn’t look around and observe individuals, but it would seem almost the entire congregation sang.

I can also see a certain serene beauty in a quiet congregation, such as I suppose would be before Vatican II.

And still. There are many parishes that have Quiet and Low Masses where there is no singing. Many prefer that joyful serenity.

Here is a nice article about this…

firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2012/11/the-mass-of-the-very-old-men

 

[Brendan_64]

And still. There are many parishes that have Quiet and Low Masses where there is no singing. Many prefer that joyful serenity.

I entirely agree. We used to have a priest who would help out with one of the Sunday Masses in our parish. He insisted on a Mass without any singing at all. It was a very prayerful and contemplative Mass, very quiet, very still. Space did not have to be filled with songs, space was just left as it was, quiet and still.

 

[ProVobis]

“Sing damnit” is not going to work.

Or they could try the reverse (“Ok, don’t sing. See what I care.”) psychology.

 

[baliano]

We use a projector and PowerPoint to display song numbers for the congregation to follow. When I am the song leader I make sure the people have as much time as possible to see the song number before we start singing. Unfortunately, some others who run the projector flash up the numbers just before we start singing and it drives me nuts, just for the reason the OP started this thread.

If the song is not in the hymnals and we have copyright permission, we will display the words of the refrain or even the whole song on the wall.

As for participation, my congregations generally do very well, at least on weekends. With the mass ordinaries they are great - I back off the microphone completely unless they are dragging down the tempo too much. With the hymns they do pretty well, even with new songs there are enough who try to sing along that I can see them following along in the books and actually hear them singing.

I remember the “Follow the bouncing ball” interludes back in the old theater days! Sorry if I offended, I just find some of this “new” stuff plain silly.

 

[ProVobis]

I remember the “Follow the bouncing ball” interludes back in the old theater days! Sorry if I offended, I just find some of this “new” stuff plain silly.

The old “Sing along with Mitch Miller” thing, you mean?

And they say that they don’t want to go back to the old days.

 

[pensmama87]

One change our parish recently implemented (where non-singing is epidemic) was printing out the music on a worship aid. So it’s literally right there. No thumbing through books, no numbers posted anymore - you just sing what’s on the paper right in front of you.

Since I am a convert, I still don’t reliably know a lot of the “standards” even though I can frequently do the refrains and/or can hum along with the tune. I can’t always hold the paper because my arms are full of kid. I still notice that my husband and I are usually the only people I can hear singing near us, and it’s not because we drown everybody out.

We’re blessed with a great music ministry, and they work really hard to try to get the congregation involved, and will do brief lessons sometimes on specific things before Mass. But if you’re the kind of person who shows up late…which we have a lot of…you’re going to miss that.

Even so, the music at Mass is so beautiful sometimes it makes me cry. I am not educated in music but I know it can be incredibly moving when done well and I definitely understand it as a form of prayer.

 

[SuperLuigi]

The parishes I have been to in my area have a projection screen somewhere up front upon which PowerPoint slides are projected throughout mass that have everything the congregants are expected to say throughout mass, All the responses, prayers etc. This included lyrics for the music and hymns. Makes it easy for everyone to participate and sing!

If you don’t mind my asking, does it really have EVERYTHING?

I’ve noticed some of those are a tad lacking.

 

[Brendan_64]

We’re blessed with a great music ministry, and they work really hard to try to get the congregation involved, and will do brief lessons sometimes on specific things before Mass. But if you’re the kind of person who shows up late…which we have a lot of…you’re going to miss that.

And what about those people who want to sit in quiet prayer before Mass? Is it right that this time before Mass should be seen as ‘empty time’ to be used as an opportunity for the choir to ‘teach’ songs to the congregation? There is actually supposed to be silence before Mass so that people should prepare themselves in silent, personal prayer.

Perhaps choir leaders ought to accept that not everybody in the Church want to sing up loudly during Mass, and that ought to be their personal choice. And that silent time before Mass ought not to be viewed as an opportunity to ‘teach’ a captive audience a new song, when many wish to sit in silent prayer.

The reality is that for those of us who haven’t a musical note in our head, lessons are pointless anyway. We’ll just pick it up as we go along once the choir starts singing in Mass, and if we don’t wish to join in then what’s the issue anyway?

 

[TK421]

One change our parish recently implemented (where non-singing is epidemic) was printing out the music on a worship aid. So it’s literally right there. No thumbing through books, no numbers posted anymore - you just sing what’s on the paper right in front of you.

Since I am a convert, I still don’t reliably know a lot of the “standards” even though I can frequently do the refrains and/or can hum along with the tune. I can’t always hold the paper because my arms are full of kid. I still notice that my husband and I are usually the only people I can hear singing near us, and it’s not because we drown everybody out.

We’re blessed with a great music ministry, and they work really hard to try to get the congregation involved, and will do brief lessons sometimes on specific things before Mass. But if you’re the kind of person who shows up late…which we have a lot of…you’re going to miss that.

Even so, the music at Mass is so beautiful sometimes it makes me cry. I am not educated in music but I know it can be incredibly moving when done well and I definitely understand it as a form of prayer.

There’s a temptation for the choir leader to go off on songs because of all the intricate and beautiful ways you can add variance to it, but the congregation gets dragged behind in the process if they’re expected to sing along.

This obviously isn’t something I’ve given thought to until I’ve had the perspective of several different Catholic parishes as well as the memories of the community I grew up with. To the best of my memory however, the songs of my upbringing for the most part are very “singable”. Your lack of music talent would be a talent in of itself not to be able to pick up on most of the songs. I think this is something that needs to be stolen & assimilated into Catholic culture. I think there’s perhaps a misplaced desire to treat the laity like you would a choir of nuns that practice 3+ times a week, and they ain’t and never will be such.

 

[pensmama87]

And what about those people who want to sit in quiet prayer before Mass? Is it right that this time before Mass should be seen as ‘empty time’ to be used as an opportunity for the choir to ‘teach’ songs to the congregation? There is actually supposed to be silence before Mass so that people should prepare themselves in silent, personal prayer.

Perhaps choir leaders ought to accept that not everybody in the Church want to sing up loudly during Mass, and that ought to be their personal choice. And that silent time before Mass ought not to be viewed as an opportunity to ‘teach’ a captive audience a new song, when many wish to sit in silent prayer.

The reality is that for those of us who haven’t a musical note in our head, lessons are pointless anyway. We’ll just pick it up as we go along once the choir starts singing in Mass, and if we don’t wish to join in then what’s the issue anyway?

The lesson would end and have silence before Mass. I almost said so in the post just to anticipate a reply like this, but then I thought, “Nah, not vital.” Whoops.

We’re talking three or four 5-10 minute “lessons” per year, announced the week prior. So if you were there and paying attention, you wouldn’t be thrown when you showed up next Sunday.

I actually thought it was nice, they tied in Church history to it, and I do think most people can be taught to sing reasonably well.

 

[outremer]

A church we sometimes attend in Southern Rhode Island is a standard modern suburban parish. Very friendly people. Besides the actual altar area, it is relatively “non-Catholic” in appearance.

To be honest, I sit stone-faced/glaze-eyed through most of the tunes and the Mass. The music is the standard modern guitar and piano with some claps thrown in. When I look around the congregation, I’d say the vast majority are not participating.

It is rather dismal, to be honest.

 

[Brendan_64]

The lesson would end and have silence before Mass. I almost said so in the post just to anticipate a reply like this, but then I thought, “Nah, not vital.” Whoops.

We’ve had that though, but the ‘lesson’ ends no more than 5 minutes before Mass begins (if that) so you haven’t much time at all for private prayer before Mass.

We’re talking three or four 5-10 minute “lessons” per year, .

I guess that’s not too much over the course of a year.

I actually thought it was nice, they tied in Church history to it, and I do think most people can be taught to sing reasonably well.

But have the congregation been asked if they want this? Or is it a case of the choir leader assuming that this is what the congregation ought to have (or ought to want) whether they actually want it or not?

When it happens in my church, I find myself thinking, “Oh no, not again, give us a break”. If I was anywhere else but in church waiting for Mass to begin I’d just get up and walk away. Just stick the number of the songs up at the front of the church and I’ll turn to the page and pick it up as I go along, and if it doesn’t sound perfect, so what?

 

[liturgyluver]

I entirely agree. We used to have a priest who would help out with one of the Sunday Masses in our parish. He insisted on a Mass without any singing at all. It was a very prayerful and contemplative Mass, very quiet, very still. Space did not have to be filled with songs, space was just left as it was, quiet and still.

The GIRM is very clear on this point:

1. Great importance should therefore be attached to the use of singing in the celebration of the Mass, with due consideration for the culture of peoples and abilities of each liturgical assembly. Although it is not always necessary (e.g., in weekday Masses) to sing all the texts that are in principle meant to be sung, every care should be taken that singing by the ministers and the people not be absent in celebrations that occur on Sundays and on Holydays of Obligation.

 

[liturgyluver]

We’ve had that though, but the ‘lesson’ ends no more than 5 minutes before Mass begins (if that) so you haven’t much time at all for private prayer before Mass.

I guess that’s not too much over the course of a year.

But have the congregation been asked if they want this? Or is it a case of the choir leader assuming that this is what the congregation ought to have (or ought to want) whether they actually want it or not?

When it happens in my church, I find myself thinking, “Oh no, not again, give us a break”. If I was anywhere else but in church waiting for Mass to begin I’d just get up and walk away. Just stick the number of the songs up at the front of the church and I’ll turn to the page and pick it up as I go along, and if it doesn’t sound perfect, so what?

The cantor has a specific responsibility to enable the congregation to participate, but given the tendency of Catholics to arrive for mass just before the start, I would agree that practice before is only going to create further alienation.

I think it is important to be clear that the church expects us to participate and really make an effort - far better to sing imperfectly than to sit there refusing to even try:

They should, moreover, take care to show this by their deep religious sense and their charity toward brothers and sisters who participate with them in the same celebration.
They are consequently to avoid any appearance of singularity or division, keeping in mind that they have only one Father in heaven and that hence are all brothers or sisters one to the other. Moreover, they are to form one body, whether in hearing the Word of God, or in taking part in the prayers and in the singing, or above all by the common offering of the Sacrifice and by participating together at the Lord’s table. This unity is beautifully apparent from the gestures and bodily postures observed together by the faithful.
The faithful, moreover, should not refuse to serve the People of God in gladness whenever they are asked to perform some particular service or function in the celebration.