Music sung in church and during mass

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buc_fan33 said:
With all due respect, I’m going to disagree rather vociferously with this. It DOESN’T all go back to the parish priest. One of the graces of being the pastor of a parish is you get to see the parish in its entirety. And, you also quickly realize that EVERYONE thinks that his or her pet issue is the most important issue facing the parish…
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And from my vantage point, NOTHING GETS DONE. I would never complain about something like this, but there are serious, pressing things that need correcting at my parish that will only get corrected if my pastor puts his back into it. In other words, nothing is going to get done.

The number of excuses offered in place of solving problems in the Church is stunning.
 
Solomonson said:
And from my vantage point, NOTHING GETS DONE. I would never complain about something like this, but there are serious, pressing things that need correcting at my parish that will only get corrected if my pastor puts his back into it. In other words, nothing is going to get done.

The number of excuses offered in place of solving problems in the Church is stunning.
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Well, I guess we all have our different points of view, don’t we? I used to think exactly like you did…then I got ordained and realized it’s never as simple or as cut and dry as we would like to believe.
 
Beautiful said:
I see > 5% singing in the parishes around here. Even the priests are closed mouth throughout most of the music.

Solution? Stop the choirs and musical instruments or have the musical instrument (piano or organ) play very softly and minimally. Guide but don’t dominate!

People DO sing when given a chance. This I know. The ‘leadership’ of current music ministry in my area squelches the faithful when they should be leading the faithful.
It has ceased being music ministry. It can be categorized more as entertainment…bad entertainment.

I understand the burden of the parish priest. Shouldn’t the liturgy of the Mass be of utmost concern? That is what I always thought.
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I’m confused by what you say here. You see “greater than five percent” singing. Is that a typo? Should it say “greater than 50%?” Or perhaps “less than five percent?” Because “greater than five percent” is a pretty broad range, anywhere from 6-100%.

In my experience, the exact opposite of what you describe is true. The removal of instruments makes people even MORE self-conscious. I like a cappella music as much as the next guy, but in my experience, you can forget about the congregation singing a cappella.

Not being from your area (presumably) I can’t really speak to what the music ministry at your particular parish does or doesn’t do.

All I can say is this…yes, the sacred liturgy is of the utmost importance in the life of a parish. However, the simple reality of the matter is that often in our zeal we try to turn the boat too quickly, so to speak. The Church moves very slowly. Time is measured in centuries when it comes to the Church. As a pastor, I (and presumably your own pastor) have to be conscious of the fact that making any type of change will alienate some people. To carry the analogy out, turning the ship too quickly could cause the entire thing to capsize.

And, to use another analogy, sometimes the house is on fire, and you as the pastor know that and can see it, but someone, albeit well-meaning, may not be aware, and is committed to making sure you know that the weeds need to be pulled. Is it important to pull the weeds? Yes. But not while the house is on fire. I have no idea of the situation in your parish, but it’s very likely that there are bigger issues that you may not be aware of which your pastor is dealing with.

Blessings to you.
 
Beautiful said:
Another solution:
Don’t fire the choir. Have them practice as usual and disperse them ‘flash mob’ style in the pews.
The choir stays intact but is dispersed to support in true community rather than a segregated dominating way.
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Another worthwhile idea, but perhaps not practical, depending on the size and style of the church. Acoustics may or may not be conducive to this idea. Also, choir members rely on each other to balance each other out (sopranos, altos, tenors, bases…harmony and melody, etc.) Practically speaking, they need to be in close proximity to each other in order to produce the best sound.
 
buc_fan33 said:
Another worthwhile idea, but perhaps not practical, depending on the size and style of the church. Acoustics may or may not be conducive to this idea. Also, choir members rely on each other to balance each other out (sopranos, altos, tenors, bases…harmony and melody, etc.) Practically speaking, they need to be in close proximity to each other in order to produce the best sound.
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I disagree. I am an alto 1 and my dear husband is a tenor 1. We both easily sing the melody of Gruber’s Silent Night with out a problem.

The music can be kept beautiful but simple enough for all to sing the melody without complications.
 
buc_fan33 said:
I’m confused by what you say here. You see “greater than five percent” singing. Is that a typo? Should it say “greater than 50%?” Or perhaps “less than five percent?” Because “greater than five percent” is a pretty broad range, anywhere from 6-100%.
Yes, typo. It should read <5%
In my experience, the exact opposite of what you describe is true. The removal of instruments makes people even MORE self-conscious. I like a cappella music as much as the next guy, but in my experience, you can forget about the congregation singing a cappella.
I’ve heard congregations sing a cappella by default enough times over the years. It is quite inspiring and beautiful and doable.
Not being from your area (presumably) I can’t really speak to what the music ministry at your particular parish does or doesn’t do.

All I can say is this…yes, the sacred liturgy is of the utmost importance in the life of a parish. However, the simple reality of the matter is that often in our zeal we try to turn the boat too quickly, so to speak. The Church moves very slowly. Time is measured in centuries when it comes to the Church. As a pastor, I (and presumably your own pastor) have to be conscious of the fact that making any type of change will alienate some people. To carry the analogy out, turning the ship too quickly could cause the entire thing to capsize.

And, to use another analogy, sometimes the house is on fire, and you as the pastor know that and can see it, but someone, albeit well-meaning, may not be aware, and is committed to making sure you know that the weeds need to be pulled. Is it important to pull the weeds? Yes. But not while the house is on fire. I have no idea of the situation in your parish, but it’s very likely that there are bigger issues that you may not be aware of which your pastor is dealing with.
This is about inclusion. The current situation alienates. At this point there is only one other direction to move.

Blessings to you.
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Beautiful said:
I disagree. I am an alto 1 and my dear husband is a tenor 1. We both easily sing the melody of Gruber’s Silent Night with out a problem.

The music can be kept beautiful but simple enough for all to sing the melody without complications.
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The problem I see is that choir members (if the choir is a good one) get bored if they don’t have at least slightly challenging music to sing.

What our ~60~ member adult choir does is take the summer off. That gives us the rest of the year to sing in harmony and to work on our vocal skills. But in the summer we just support the congregation from the pews.
 
My husband and I spent the weekend in a town in Georgia and attended Mass there. We had a nice visit, but I realize how blessed we are and it is good to be home. I am so grateful for our parish. Our youth choir recently sang the National Anthem at the Mariner’s stadium. Here is a sample of what our youth choir can do. youtu.be/WjHk7ealzMY?t=3s
 
A church I attended on vacation prints the names of the hymns and music in the bulletin the week before. I think also the Responsorial Psalm and any sung parts of the Mass. Then you can be prepared to participate and you don’t get caught joining in on the second verse while getting to the page.
 
acadiANNA said:
A church I attended on vacation prints the names of the hymns and music in the bulletin the week before. I think also the Responsorial Psalm and any sung parts of the Mass. Then you can be prepared to participate and you don’t get caught joining in on the second verse while getting to the page.
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Good idea! Thanks for sharing.
 
suezette said:
I have become a little confused of late about the kind of songs that can/cannot be sung during mass. I once heard on radio Maria here that recorded music cannot be played during Mass, also that music that has been recorded for commercial purposes cannot be sung in church. But then, at our local parish there was a time when a Don Moen song was played for entrance. Another time at school, the thanks giving was a recorded song, played on a lap top. I happen to sing in our choir, but it becomes heard to say anything without backup information and a clear source of it. I don’t even know the question to ask at this point. Is there church teaching on this, or what is it supposed to be?
Also, I have come to learn of sacred music, which I am slowly trying to appreciate. But besides that is there music for Mass or that which cannot be sung during, or is it that any Christian music can be sung during mass.
I grew up listening to a certain kind of music in our parish here, however in this same parish today, things have changed. Sometimes I want to think I am just what people refer to as “old school”. First of all there are so many choirs, others comprising just about four members(would this still qualify to be called a choir), they mostly sing the way they like, almost jumping, others lifting their hands, eyes closed, holding onto the microphone… the expressions are many; the congregation is passive, unable to sing along even the Holy Holy. Last advent, one of the meditation songs was an Easter song, well sung. And these days, it has become Don Moen during meditation. The readings no longer matter.
One of the old parishioners once commented that we should know that we aren’t in a competition with the” born again”. The question is this in order.
One Saturday some time back, my youngest brother came home smiling, he told us he had found the “born again” choir (their churches are all over even in residential buildings) nearby practicing R. Kelly’s step to the left, step to the right…You know, there was a rumor here that he had gotten saved; hence the assumption that all his music is Christian. Does anyone see my concern? would you also just look on if you were here?
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The problem to which you refer is deeper than you think. It goes back to the beginning of the Protestant Reformation, when Luther, and other reformers, began to erode the Liturgy and replace ancient sacred 1000 year old liturgically prescribed hymns with modern upbeat relevant and often heretical hymns to fit the ideas of the reformers. Tragically, this idea eventually crept into the Roman Liturgy so that, even before the new mass came out in 1970, most peoples’ idea of singing at mass was popular hymns. A classic example of this is the old faithful “Holy God we Praise thy Name.” The modern equivalent is “On Eagles Wings”, or whatever they are singing today, “Our God is an Awesome God” (I am dating myself now). What the Roman Church needs to do is jettison popular hymnography and start singing the actual liturgical hymns that are prescribed for the Sunday or Feastday. This is what we still do in the East. Orientale Lumen!
Fr. Sebastian Carnazzo
steliasmelkite.org
 
Getting back to the original post, it should be clear that there are as many opinions about music, even within the limits set by the Church, as their are people. You are correct about recorded music not being used within the Mass. As to songs used, there are only guidelines and no list of songs to use, or songs not to use, at least throughout the world. It is possible that a bishop might well have such a list within his diocese. That is the thing. The Church allows these decisions to be made at the local level. The bishop is the competent authority to decide what his priests can and cannot use. Then the priest will do what the bishop allows, using his best judgment, including delegating that authority to a lay person.
 
dnu said:
Not too many topics will cause as much chaos as music at Mass. I prefered the chants and latin myself, few people my age (early 20’s at the time) felt the same though.
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I’m almost 21, and I definitely prefer Gregorian chant over the pop garbage that I’ve heard over the years.
 
Our whole Liturgy is Sung. Check out our “Music Tab” here steliasmelkite.org If you are ever in the Bay Area, CA, come for a visit. We are in Los Gatos.
 
buc_fan33 said:
I’m confused by what you say here. You see “greater than five percent” singing. Is that a typo? Should it say “greater than 50%?” Or perhaps “less than five percent?” Because “greater than five percent” is a pretty broad range, anywhere from 6-100%.

In my experience, the exact opposite of what you describe is true. The removal of instruments makes people even MORE self-conscious. I like a cappella music as much as the next guy, but in my experience, you can forget about the congregation singing a cappella.

Not being from your area (presumably) I can’t really speak to what the music ministry at your particular parish does or doesn’t do.

All I can say is this…yes, the sacred liturgy is of the utmost importance in the life of a parish. However, the simple reality of the matter is that often in our zeal we try to turn the boat too quickly, so to speak. The Church moves very slowly. Time is measured in centuries when it comes to the Church. As a pastor, I (and presumably your own pastor) have to be conscious of the fact that making any type of change will alienate some people. To carry the analogy out, turning the ship too quickly could cause the entire thing to capsize.

And, to use another analogy, sometimes the house is on fire, and you as the pastor know that and can see it, but someone, albeit well-meaning, may not be aware, and is committed to making sure you know that the weeds need to be pulled. Is it important to pull the weeds? Yes. But not while the house is on fire. I have no idea of the situation in your parish, but it’s very likely that there are bigger issues that you may not be aware of which your pastor is dealing with.

Blessings to you.
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I must say that the Easter we had the best community response was the Easter after the organist moved away. Let’s say that as an organist she was a great singer. Voice had been her major at college and she had minored in piano. Organ, not so much. But everyone depended on her voice, and who wouldn’t? She had great pipes. What she didn’t have, and didn’t want was a choir.

So when she moved away everyone was concerned. We had no musicians and now no leader. What would we do for the Triduum? But someone who had a nice voice decided to put a choir together. At first she was going to accompany with guitar but decided that was too steep a learning curve in the short time we had. We picked hymns everyone knew, mostly traditional. We reviewed the Ordinary of the Mass. We asked who felt comfortable enough to cantor the Psalms. When the time came the congregation came together in spades! Everyone seemed to sing, to support those volunteers who had worked so hard.

The choir continued, but the material changed. The guitars were added, and sometimes a tambourine. Now with all the new stuff, not so many sing anymore. There’s this feeling that we don’t need to because the choir does it for us.
 
One priest used to say you don’t have to be a great singer to use your voice to praise God. Just join in. Another church used to do a practice before Mass. That sort of broke my preparation for the Mass. I did notice a lot more participation though.:okpeople:
 
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