music

[angell1]

hey guys, just a couple questions

wehn reading some of the quotes of the early church fathers, they all seem really against musical instruments. was it just because of the culture of the time or is there something more to it? as far as i can tell, instruments are used positively in the bible most of the time.

also, why did the church not allow women to sing in the choir until like the 1900s? was it because the canters had to be an ordained office? that’s how i understood it but perhaps i’m wrong. i enjoy music very much and feel that it helps to build up god’s kingdom so was just wondering about those points. any insight would be appreciated. thanks and god bless

 

[DavidFilmer]

I am not aware of any opposition of the Early Fathers to musical instruments. Some proteatants (notably Calvinists) objected to instruments which were not specifically mentioned in the Bible. Lyres and harps were not objected to, but organs would be right out.

Women were not allowed to sing in choir with men (nor men with women). When we speak of “choir” here we do not mean what we know as a parish choir - we mean in monastic Orders, where everything (the Mass, the Divine Office, etc) is prayed “in choir” (one group on the East side of the narthex, and one group on the West side, both groups facing each other, who alternate chant according to a specific form of order). Male and female Religious Orders were separated, even in regular prayer. This rule has been relaxed.

 

[angell1]

hey guys, just a couple questions

wehn reading some of the quotes of the early church fathers, they all seem really against musical instruments. was it just because of the culture of the time or is there something more to it? as far as i can tell, instruments are used positively in the bible most of the time.

also, why did the church not allow women to sing in the choir until like the 1900s? was it because the canters had to be an ordained office? that’s how i understood it but perhaps i’m wrong. i enjoy music very much and feel that it helps to build up god’s kingdom so was just wondering about those points. any insight would be appreciated. thanks and god bless

what about the parish choirs then? there were churches for the general public…

 

[DavidFilmer]

what about the parish choirs then? there were churches for the general public…

There have never been any Church regulations about a choir of ordinary laypeople. There have traditionally been “boy’s choirs” made up of prepubescent boys who sing in a high register (they get booted from the choir when their voices begin to change). Obviously girls have not been admitted to such “boy’s choirs,” but this is at the direction of the choirmaster, not the Church.

 

[vames]

hey guys, just a couple questions

wehn reading some of the quotes of the early church fathers, they all seem really against musical instruments. was it just because of the culture of the time or is there something more to it? as far as i can tell, instruments are used positively in the bible most of the time.

also, why did the church not allow women to sing in the choir until like the 1900s? was it because the canters had to be an ordained office? that’s how i understood it but perhaps i’m wrong. i enjoy music very much and feel that it helps to build up god’s kingdom so was just wondering about those points. any insight would be appreciated. thanks and god bless

Re musical instruments: to this day, the Orthodox Church forbids the use of musical instruments at the liturgy and in the church in general, in the name of tradition. Here’s an explanation:
orthodoxanswers.org/answer/38/

Re women: Basically, because of 1 Corinthians - “women should remain silent in the churches”, i.e. should not be allowed to perform any liturgical tasks.

Check out the explanation of Pope Pius X, 1903:

1. On the same principle it follows that singers in church have a real liturgical office, and that therefore women, being incapable of exercising such office, cannot be admitted to form part of the choir. Whenever, then, it is desired to employ the acute voices of sopranos and contraltos, these parts must be taken by boys, according to the most ancient usage of the Church.

adoremus.org/MotuProprio.html

The “most ancient usage of the Church” meant that the employment of castrated men was finally banned after three centuries:
jstor.org/discover/10.2307/955612?uid=3738920&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21102146065583

The rule forbidding women to sing in church was conditionally liberalized by Pope Pius XII in 1955:

1. Where it is impossible to have schools of singers or where there are not enough choir boys, it is allowed that “a group of men and women or girls, located in a place outside the sanctuary set apart for the exclusive use of this group, can sing the liturgical texts at Solemn Mass, as long as the men are completely separated from the women and girls and everything unbecoming is avoided. The Ordinary is bound in conscience in this matter.”

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_25121955_musicae-sacrae_en.html