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RoseQueen
Guest
I am a Latin catholic married to a Syrian catholic.
I attend different rites of mass as time permits here in the US and have loved them all.
I am also a charismatic and has been working towards evangelization for more than 15 years,esp in regards to Youth.
Whenever I see such posts it really makes me sad.First of all ,I sing at church choirs and I definitely appreciate music in its many forms.It is sad that you think the electronic form of music corrupts the traditional Mass.Be it any kind of music or raza,be it sung with instruments or not,ultimately what matters the most is that the hearts of the people who attend the worship be lifted upto God and they feel closer to Jesus.
So if I sing a song and a brother in the congregation feels closer to God ,repents,is lifted up and resolves to follow Jesus,for me ,my mission was fulfilled.The rest ,the preservation of tradition and customs ,are only secondary.
Here in our church choir we try to sing many beautiful songs,that were superhit christian songs in last couple of years.I have had many people,esp youngsters ,tell me that they decided to attend the Syro-malabar mass ,although they had access to other English masses,just bcoz of the beautiful music.
here is a an example of the raza (tune)we sing:
youtube.com/watch?v=oBeJJS8inMw
However ,recently a new priest was appointed and has been giving us a hard time.
He dislikes any new music.he discourages anything other than Thuya.
I also work with youth groups in my Roman catholic local church.One day,we were playing some English worship songs.The teenagers were very surprised and told me they had never heard such beautiful songs that belonged to worship.bottom line was they started attending church regularly.music is one big factor in attracting youth towards Jesus.St Augustine has said that when you sing,you pray twice.
There are many stories of saints where they first heard a song,and converted their hearts.
My own story is similar,I did not believe in God even though I was born in a Christian family and it was one of those so called 'electronic â song sung at a mass,that converted my heart to Jesus.You never know when God will touch someone.
To me ,the more modern christian songs are more catering to the Youth and general people ,and it draws them more to God,than traditional songs can,although they are beautiful in their own rights.
We just need to keep an open mind,and let God work His way through.There is no need to limit God.
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Thomas48
Guest
I understand what you are saying but can the same not be said for those individuals who feel more spiritually connected to the Syraic and Thuya form? Your parish is a very interesting case, I have never heard of the Thuya Qurbana being regularly administerd, it is supposed to be limited to the office of the dead. For the people who feel connected to the Thuya and Syriac form they are usually never compensated, for the vast majority of Syro Malabar and Knanaya Catholic parishes only use the so-called classical form of the Qurbana.
To each his own on whatever form they like but not everyone can be compensated at once. However, in my opinion the âClassical Formâ does not represent in anyway the East Syriac roots and nature of the Syro Malabar Church.
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RoseQueen
Guest
It maybe that those people had been accustomed to that form of worship in their childhood,so they feel closer to God when that form is sung?
I have been an active participant in many different rites churches,as my family lived in several countries due to my dadâs job.
Yet I feel my Syro malabar parish is different from them all.O my,there is such a lot of competition,pettiness and jealousy going on in every area.I am not sure I want my kids to go there or learn this culture.I attend there only because it is in malayalam and I was initially missing the malayalam mass.
I also had difficulty learning the razas first,since Malayalam wasnât my first language.I put in lot of hard work to learn all different razas we use here.Sometimes practicing 3 hours everyday.I had no idea Thuya is mainly for office of dead.
My husband although Syro Malabar,always disliked it and only preferred RC mass.He even warned me that I may not like the culture I am going to see there.Maybe this is just an exception.Maybe not every SC parish is like this.however I have decided that my kids will continue going to RC church.To me ,spirituality is always above any cultural traditions. .I may also leave this church in another few months if things wonât straighten up.
The reason I visited this forum is because I wanted to know the rules regarding singing other songs during liturgy.One priest insists that the songs in the Qurbana liturgy book cannot be replaced by other songs.for example
halleluya paadidunnen before Suvishesham cannot be replaced by what we were normally singing Manassil Poomazha peyyum vachanam.
Is there any book/resource that I can look up that tells us these types of rules regarding liturgy.Is this decision left to each diocese?
I had so far no luck finding these rules.
I have been an active participant in many different rites churches,as my family lived in several countries due to my dadâs job.
Yet I feel my Syro malabar parish is different from them all.O my,there is such a lot of competition,pettiness and jealousy going on in every area.I am not sure I want my kids to go there or learn this culture.I attend there only because it is in malayalam and I was initially missing the malayalam mass.
I also had difficulty learning the razas first,since Malayalam wasnât my first language.I put in lot of hard work to learn all different razas we use here.Sometimes practicing 3 hours everyday.I had no idea Thuya is mainly for office of dead.
My husband although Syro Malabar,always disliked it and only preferred RC mass.He even warned me that I may not like the culture I am going to see there.Maybe this is just an exception.Maybe not every SC parish is like this.however I have decided that my kids will continue going to RC church.To me ,spirituality is always above any cultural traditions. .I may also leave this church in another few months if things wonât straighten up.
The reason I visited this forum is because I wanted to know the rules regarding singing other songs during liturgy.One priest insists that the songs in the Qurbana liturgy book cannot be replaced by other songs.for example
halleluya paadidunnen before Suvishesham cannot be replaced by what we were normally singing Manassil Poomazha peyyum vachanam.
Is there any book/resource that I can look up that tells us these types of rules regarding liturgy.Is this decision left to each diocese?
I had so far no luck finding these rules.
T
Thomas48
Guest
Every particular Church has its problems, issues like this are not distinct to the Syro Malabar. And yes, Thuya Qurbana mainly died out from regular use sometime from the 80s-90s, now it is really only used distinctly for the office of the dead. All the funeral hymns such as, âKaikolanameâ are all Thuya.
That priest is correct, songs such as Halleluya Paddidunnen are liturgical hymns that have been translated down from Syriac-Thuya-Classical.
Here are its predecessors:
Syriac
youtube.com/watch?v=mgu9ZqJ3IIs
Thuya
youtube.com/watch?v=ywTDXsc7BvU
Sadly I do not have a resource that explains these rules but in my own words, simply you must understand the difference between liturgical chants and devotional hymns. Devotional hymns are those that we sing during the pauses of the Qurbana, for example when the body and blood are being dispersed. These devotionals are usually random and can be any hymn that the choir chooses in example âOsythiyil Vazhum Daivameâ. Liturgical chants are those that are ingrained into the Qurbana and are apart of the East Syriac liturgy, such as Sarva Dipanam Karthave translated from the Syriac chant Laku Mara and Aana Pesaha Thirunalil translated from the Syriac chant Puqdaanakon. These chants are apart of the liturgy and cannot be changed and even if there was a move for them to be changed (which is very very unlikely) it would have to be done at the synodal level.
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Medical_Student
Guest
I sympathize with both of you, but I must agree with Thomas48. There are many changes which have occurred in the past 50 (400? 
) years that I wish I could reverse. I almost feel like an SSPX or FSSP Roman riter, but one without any voice, power, or compatriots.
) years that I wish I could reverse. I almost feel like an SSPX or FSSP Roman riter, but one without any voice, power, or compatriots.
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SyroMalankara
Guest
Traditions and customs are to be practiced and handed down to generations, not preserved like in a museum⌠the problem with this mentality, even among well intentioned and practicing Catholics - Iâve noticed especially prevelant around Charismatic supporters - is that feelings trump trueworship. What good is it for a brother or sister to âfeelâ uplifted but not join any local Catholic Church because they dont do music the way Fr.FunMusic does it? It seems theyâve set up many of these people for disappointment and mislead them in theology by singing popular, rather than sound lyrics and musical formats foreign to Apostolic worship.
I seriously doubt that any approved mission would lead others to non-Catholic worship or music, and I wonder who commissioned you to fulfil this mission, in this manner?
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yawsep1569
Guest
Are you in the US? If so, I can provide a reference.
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