Muslim – Impure Thoughts?

[Augustine3]

I understand during Ramadan from sunrise to sunset, lustful thoughts are forbidden. I was wondering once Ramadan is over if lustful thoughts about someone else whom you are not married to is permitted (only impure thoughts, nothing else)?

 

[Reuben_J]

Not so sure about that. But Muslims (both men and women) are taught to do certain thing to avoid impure thought like:

• lower your eyes when come face to face with women who are not your wife.
• women should not wear revealing clothes that can induce men to lose control of their sexual desire. In some Muslim countries it is made into law where women are prohibited to use immoral attire.

 

[angell1]

Not so sure about that. But Muslims (both men and women) are taught to do certain thing to avoid impure thought like:

• lower your eyes when come face to face with women who are not your wife.
• women should not wear revealing clothes that can induce men to lose control of their sexual desire. In some Muslim countries it is made into law where women are prohibited to use immoral attire.

but polygamy and divorce are perfectly fine… and by divorce i suppose i mean divorce and remarriage. doen’st seem to make sense to me. no ill bearing against anyone, i just find it odd

 

[Reuben_J]

but polygamy and divorce are perfectly fine… and by divorce i suppose i mean divorce and remarriage. doen’st seem to make sense to me. no ill bearing against anyone, i just find it odd

Probably because it is better to have licit sex rather than not.

Polygamy is allowed so that at least the husband could has sex with his wives than commiting adultery with a woman who is not his wife. Polygamy would facilitate option of marrying women whom the man desires though he is limited to only four. If he wants to marry more, he has to divorce one of the wives to comply with this quota.

Women on the other hands are to suppress their sexual desire and could only reserve it for their husband to serve him. She is not allowed to marry more than one husband.

Simiarly with divorce and remarriage - legally divorce a spouse rather than committing sin due to an unhappy marriage. Probably divorce could be the women escape route to a new realtionship. Divorce is very easy in Islam. All the man has to do is to say “I divorce you” to make it binding.

 

[noorez]

I understand during Ramadan from sunrise to sunset, lustful thoughts are forbidden. I was wondering once Ramadan is over if lustful thoughts about someone else whom you are not married to is permitted (only impure thoughts, nothing else)?

Augustine3, Ramadan is a special time to remind us of our spiritual obligations. By abstaining from physical needs (food, water, sex) we can better concentrate on this. Lustful thoughts are forbidden at all times. To enjoy lustful (or impure) thoughts would be sinful, both during and after Ramadan.

 

[noorez]

but polygamy and divorce are perfectly fine… and by divorce i suppose i mean divorce and remarriage. doen’st seem to make sense to me. no ill bearing against anyone, i just find it odd

I will try answering this as best as I can. It will be up to you whether or not you find my answer palatable:

Marriage in Islam is different than in the catholic faith. It is not considered a sacrament. It is a contract (nikah) between a man and a woman. As such this contract can be ended if need be. In Islam (if seen correctly) divorce is an option that can only be taken as a last resort for the reason that reconciliation is always the better choice. God desires in marriage unity and harmony. Perhaps another way to see it: it is not always possible for human beings to make a proper informed decision (our intellects are not perfect). Therefore consent is not always perfect.

Now, as for polygamy. And many other Muslims may not like my answer (I am coming from the standpoint of a ‘Shia Nizari Ismaili Muslim’). I will submit that polygamy, is not currently permissible. It was permissible only for a very short amount of time following a certain battle. The Quran both mentions the permission (4:3) and the finally the allowance being taken away (4:129).

Now I know there are many a Sunni scholars who might disagree with this interpretation but I will go by the interpretation of my specific tradition.

 

[Augustine3]

Augustine3, Ramadan is a special time to remind us of our spiritual obligations. By abstaining from physical needs (food, water, sex) we can better concentrate on this. Lustful thoughts are forbidden at all times. To enjoy lustful (or impure) thoughts would be sinful, both during and after Ramadan.

Thanks

 

[MartinJordan]

God desires in marriage unity and harmony.

Same in Christianity. However we are supposed to strive to Holiness and that Marriage is a Covenant, with God as THE witness. A Contract would be like prostitution

(please DO NOT take this as a slight on your beliefs, but this is how serious going against God is to our Faith).

MJ

 

[Reuben_J]

Now, as for polygamy. And many other Muslims may not like my answer (I am coming from the standpoint of a ‘Shia Nizari Ismaili Muslim’). **I will submit that polygamy, is not currently permissible. It was permissible only for a very short amount of time following a certain battle. The Quran both mentions the permission (4:3) and the finally the allowance being taken away (4:129). **

Now I know there are many a Sunni scholars who might disagree with this interpretation but I will go by the interpretation of my specific tradition.

Noted. Thanks.

 

[ealfred]

Marriage in Islam is different than in the catholic faith. It is not considered a sacrament. It is a contract (nikah) between a man and a woman. As such this contract can be ended if need be.

This is the main difference. Marriage is like a legal contract that you can end at any point of time. The man and wife do not become one

 

[MartinJordan]

Not so sure about that. But Muslims (both men and women) are taught to do certain thing to avoid impure thought like:

• lower your eyes when come face to face with women who are not your wife.
• women should not wear revealing clothes that can induce men to lose control of their sexual desire. In some Muslim countries it is made into law where women are prohibited to use immoral attire.

I think and sadly so that even Christian men may not be aware that if any man looks at his own wife lustfully (as an object of desire and use her to please his sexual appetite as it were) is also in serious sin.

It applies to a woman as well. Neither sex gets away with it

MJ

 

[Augustine3]

Marriage in Islam is different than in the catholic faith. It is not considered a sacrament. It is a contract (nikah) between a man and a woman.

Where did you get that from? Have I missed something? “Nikah” in Arabic literally means “to have sexual intercourse”…

عقد “Aked” means contract.

 

[TheSufi]

Same in Christianity. However we are supposed to strive to Holiness and that Marriage is a Covenant, with God as THE witness. A Contract would be like prostitution

(please DO NOT take this as a slight on your beliefs, but this is how serious going against God is to our Faith).

MJ

You are wrong. There is a legal side, (ie the contract, a woman has rights and a man has rights.) and there is a spiritual side as well.

Part of marriage is to help one draw closer to God. God says in the Quran, “Oh you who believe, be with the truthful.” So as Muslims we should seek to marry a person who states will elevate our state, whose being will draw one closer to God. In Islam, we are taught, marriage is half of our religion.

To sit up here and make it appear as if Islamic marriage is about prostitution, is straight up degrading.

 

[TheSufi]

Where did you get that from? Have I missed something? “Nikah” in Arabic literally means “to have sexual intercourse”…

عقد “Aked” means contract.

There is technical vocabulary. Some words can have more than one meaning in Arabic. For example. Sunnah, literally means way, but it has been used by scholars to mean, recommended, belief, the custom of the Prophet, hadith etc.

 

[Augustine3]

You are wrong. There is a legal side, (ie the contract, a woman has rights and a man has rights.) and there is a spiritual side as well.

Part of marriage is to help one draw closer to God. God says in the Quran, “Oh you who believe, be with the truthful.” So as Muslims we should seek to marry a person who states will elevate our state, whose being will draw one closer to God. In Islam, we are taught, marriage is half of our religion.

To sit up here and make it appear as if Islamic marriage is about prostitution, is straight up degrading.

I have to agree with TheSufi, lets not forget our Jewish brethren get married by contract as well.

 

[Augustine3]

There is technical vocabulary. Some words can have more than one meaning in Arabic. For example. Sunnah, literally means way, but it has been used by scholars to mean, recommended, belief, the custom of the Prophet, hadith etc.

Interesting…

Do u have any references supporting “nikah” means contract?

 

[TheSufi]

Where did you get that from? Have I missed something? “Nikah” in Arabic literally means “to have sexual intercourse”…

عقد “Aked” means contract.

I think you are right, Nikah means sexual intercourse, it also means marriage.

I am looking through this translation of this book on Islamic Law concerning marriage, and comparing it to the arabic, and I don’t see them using nikah as “contract.” And they are translating 'Aqid as “contract.”

 

[TheSufi]

Marriage in Islam, the Spiritual Side

** Marriage as a Sign of God, and a Means to Him**

In a series of verses within Surat al-Rum, God tells us about His signs in creation– here, specifically about spouses.

Marriage is a sign of God, as it (1) reminds of the marvel of creation; (2) reminds of the marvel of destiny and how God brings a man and woman together; (3) reminds of the gift of serenity (sukun) God has placed in marriage; and (4) reminds of the potential of love and mercy God grants the couple. There are numerous signs of God in marriage:

“Another of His signs is that He created spouses from among yourselves for you to live with in tranquillity: He ordained love and kindness between you. There truly are signs in this for those who reflect.” [Qur’an, 30.21]

Marriage is also a “sign of God,” in that it is a means of turning to God and seeking His closeness. How? Through upholding and expressing the “love and mercy” that is the glue of relations, even when tested. The manifestation of this is good character in conduct and response–seeking God thereby. Prophet Muhammad (God bless him and give him peace) said, ”The believers most perfect in faith are those best in character. And the best of you are those best to their spouses.” [Tirmidhi] (Taken from Seekersguidance.org).

Marriage is part of a Muslim’s spiritual progress in the religion, a means of drawing closer to God, something that is considered sacred to a Muslim who understands his/her religion. Everything in Islam is but a means of drawing closer to God.

And God knows best.

 

[Reuben_J]

I think and sadly so that even Christian men may not be aware that if any man looks at his own wife lustfully (as an object of desire and use her to please his sexual appetite as it were) is also in serious sin.

It applies to a woman as well. Neither sex gets away with it

MJ

Yes, MJ, it is a sin to look at a woman lustfully and this certainly applies to the women as well.

Muslims are maybe more pragmatic in enforcing their religious belief with sound advice and even making them into laws. Thus women who wear unsuitable attire or Muslims who do not fast and eat in public places can be arrested and end up in jail.

 

[Reuben_J]

You are wrong. There is a legal side, (ie the contract, a woman has rights and a man has rights.) and there is a spiritual side as well.

Part of marriage is to help one draw closer to God. God says in the Quran, “Oh you who believe, be with the truthful.” So as Muslims we should seek to marry a person who states will elevate our state, whose being will draw one closer to God. In Islam, we are taught, marriage is half of our religion.

To sit up here and make it appear as if Islamic marriage is about prostitution, is straight up degrading.

Though it appears nice on paper, the fact that in practice Muslims can divorce their spouses very easily and that a man (Sunni Muslims) can practice polygamy do not seem to uphold the ideal of marriage.

As for me personally, but maybe because of my background as a Christian, I do not have an exalted view of such marriage. If it is a gift from God, it therefore should not be broken (in divorce) and that a husband and wife must be truly devoted to each other that there should be no place for another (polygamy) in their marriage.

To refer to a marriage as a contract surely degrades the sanctity of a marriage further. Though I would not say it akin to prostitution (out of respect), my personal view of such marriage is one of abomination.