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Sam_777
Guest
Those links in my OP are for UAE not SA, have you checked them!
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JeanMichel
Guest
I only can speak from my experience here in Abu Dhabi. I don’t think this society or culture is perfect, but I am impressed with all of the people I have met from throughout the MENA region and beyond.
Do you think that because injustice happens in this country that it should be condemned? If so, every nation on earth would be condmened; true justice does not exist on this earth. Even a rose has thorns, but I choose to focus on the wonderful flower’s bloom.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Sr Amy,
I was trying to find the right word…forming may not have been the right one.
It took time to establish an institutional church. The Church began at Pentecost in the Upper Room in Jerusalem.
The Church that is the same at Pentecost and today is the creed or faith we hold in Jesus Christ defined through His Bride the Church. You could have one Catholic in a diocese, let’s say, Lincoln, Nebraska. That person would be the only Catholic in the entire diocese. The Church would acknowledge that its existence, the Catholic Church resides in the diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska. It is based on the faith of the believer.
It took the Church some time to form the Apostles Creed that then further defined Christ as True God and True Man in Nicea. It took time to assemble the catechism. A young woman in my state grew up in anti-Catholic home. She wanted to know what the early Christians believed. She got hold of documents pertaining to that held in ancient times. Later she got her curiosity up and got hold of a modern Catholic Catechism and found the teachings are the same, but draw as well on events that needed to have our theology about God and morality clarified…today the issue is stem cell research.
We have Canon Law. We have the Liturgical documents. We have the documents of Vatican II. We have the universal catechism. All these documents began at Pentecost…and developed into the form we have today.\
Just the discipline of liturgy is enormous, considering the many rites representing different cultures thorughout the world.
I was trying to find the right word…forming may not have been the right one.
It took time to establish an institutional church. The Church began at Pentecost in the Upper Room in Jerusalem.
The Church that is the same at Pentecost and today is the creed or faith we hold in Jesus Christ defined through His Bride the Church. You could have one Catholic in a diocese, let’s say, Lincoln, Nebraska. That person would be the only Catholic in the entire diocese. The Church would acknowledge that its existence, the Catholic Church resides in the diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska. It is based on the faith of the believer.
It took the Church some time to form the Apostles Creed that then further defined Christ as True God and True Man in Nicea. It took time to assemble the catechism. A young woman in my state grew up in anti-Catholic home. She wanted to know what the early Christians believed. She got hold of documents pertaining to that held in ancient times. Later she got her curiosity up and got hold of a modern Catholic Catechism and found the teachings are the same, but draw as well on events that needed to have our theology about God and morality clarified…today the issue is stem cell research.
We have Canon Law. We have the Liturgical documents. We have the documents of Vatican II. We have the universal catechism. All these documents began at Pentecost…and developed into the form we have today.\
Just the discipline of liturgy is enormous, considering the many rites representing different cultures thorughout the world.
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Thanks–this post clears a lot of things up.
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KathleenGee
Guest
There were witnesses to the crucifixion of Christ…followers of Christ, including Mary and the holy women, and St. John the Evangelist, one of the writers of the Gospels. There are historical facts attesting that Pontius Pilate was governor of Jerusalem at that time and that crucifixion was the Roman practice of execution.
The teachings of Christ come directly from His apostles who witnessed Him and lived with Him, and taught by Him for over 3 years.
The teachings of Christ come directly from His apostles who witnessed Him and lived with Him, and taught by Him for over 3 years.
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Arch_Angel
Guest
Hello Sister Amy,
So how long did it take the Church to form? Or is it still forming?
This is a great question, and I noticed someone else replied with a good answer but I’d like to add my two cents in another perspective.
How long did the Church take to form? From a spiritual side, I believe that God started forming the Church since the the beginning of creation (or that it was always part of His divine plan). Throughout the centuries he chose the prophets to reveal Himself to us and thus slowly prepared the way for His coming.
In many cases we think about a Church as literally a structure or building that people go to and worship. Although that is true however from a spiritual side Catholics believe that we are the Church, the new temple that was rebuilt within our hearts through the Holy Spirit and continues to form and reveal itself through us from generation to generation. So when we say that the Church is the living body of Christ it can have a much more spiritual, unseen twist than what we typically think of and unfortunately many fellow Catholics do not understand.
Remember the days of the prophets, how many times was the temple destroyed? So through Christ’s resurrection, He rebuilds the Church (or temple) within us which is everlasting and forever “forming” as a living revelation in us all.
Hope that helps shed some light
God bless,
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Sister_Amy
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KathleenGee
Guest
Sr Amy,
Blessed Mother Mary and the holy women were at the crucifixion…in the Gospels. I will come back later because the crucifixion is the fulfillment of God coming to us as man through His Son…the prefigurement going back to Abraham and Isaac.
This whole idea of the faithful father sacrificing his son out of obedience to God is the crux.
Why the shedding of blood…can God die?..and so on…
Blessed Mother Mary and the holy women were at the crucifixion…in the Gospels. I will come back later because the crucifixion is the fulfillment of God coming to us as man through His Son…the prefigurement going back to Abraham and Isaac.
This whole idea of the faithful father sacrificing his son out of obedience to God is the crux.
Why the shedding of blood…can God die?..and so on…
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Sister_Amy
Guest
But you said only one of the authors of the Gospels was at the crucifixion. Why should I trust the other three, when they weren’t there?
What is prefigurement?
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KathleenGee
Guest
First of all, I note that you have just about as many posts as I.
I am sure other Catholics here in the past have covered the same points many times.
There are those within Islam who have ancient sources, but which ones do you follow?
You have to know where the other apostles were and why. Essentially, they were afraid and in hiding. Gospels say that.
I am thus trying to figure out where you really are so I can address where it is that you don’t really understand.
I am sure other Catholics here in the past have covered the same points many times.
There are those within Islam who have ancient sources, but which ones do you follow?
You have to know where the other apostles were and why. Essentially, they were afraid and in hiding. Gospels say that.
I am thus trying to figure out where you really are so I can address where it is that you don’t really understand.
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Okay, so I gather from your post that you believe that the other three Gospel writers actually were apostles, who were “in hiding.” Is that correct? I’m asking because I’ve read that the Gospels were written much much after the alleged crufixion, and not by the actual disciples.
Islam on the other hand is quite a different thing because of something called isnad. But I’m not talking about Islam here.
And really–what is prefigurement?
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scottbrownii
Guest
What she means about prefigurement is the biblical story of Abraham and Isaac (in the Qu’ran it is Ibrahim and Ismael) In it of course the Lord told Abraham to sacrifice his son, so he took him to the mountaintop and was about to knife him, when LO!, the Lord commands him to stop and sacrifice a ram that he has provided, caught in a nearby thicket. The Ram took the place of the child of Abraham. In Christian theology we believe that God was showing Abraham what was to come. God sent Jesus to die in our place as the ram died in Isaac’s place. And we put our faith in the Gospels because we have faith in God. I personally believe the four canonical Gospels have apostolic authorship, but if it was written much later, we know that God has preserved the truth and the words of his Prophet and Son Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ through his Church.
And we put our faith in the Gospels because we have faith in God. I personally believe the four canonical Gospels have apostolic authorship, but if it was written much later, we know that God has preserved the truth and the words of his Prophet and Son Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ through his Church.
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Reuben_J
Guest
The Disciple that was at the foot of the cross was John. John’s witnessing the whole crucifixion is enough information for us that it really happened as been witnessed by John.
John however was a brother in discipleship with rest of the Gospel writers. They lived together and did the same thing and therefore shared many things in common.
Even if the other writers were not on the foot of the cross, in writing the Gospels they could very well complimenting what John saw for they too were following the episode of the passion of Christ. Basically they were there though not with John at that particular moment they would be the best people to narrate this whole episode.
Just think about what journalists do today - they were together with the marines in the Vietnamese jungle, they might not see a soldier being actually shot, but they could investigate on the ground how it happened or saw the dead body to certify that the death had occured.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Sr Amy,
The apostles were with Jesus and traveled with Him for 3.5 years. They were in hiding after Our Lord was arrested. St. John, the youngest, was the only one with enough love strong enough not to hide. But he returned to them. He and St. Peter ran to the empty tomb on the day of the Resurrection. Because Peter was appointed the head by Christ, St. John let St. Peter enter the tomb first.
That evening Christ appeared to them in His resurrected state, and gave them the power to forgive sins.
But it was not until Pentecost – the beginning of the Church – that the Holy Spirit descended upon them, confirmed the Apostles in faith and strength, and gave them the ability to communicate not only to the multitudes, but several of them the grace to compose the Gospels.
Being with Christ, and acknowledging Him as the Savior of the world, witnessing His teachings, miracles, His passion and resurrection, would be sufficient for human memory.
There are people all over the world who have their own private encounters in one way or another with Christ and they never forget that one, transforming moment.
The apostles were with Jesus and traveled with Him for 3.5 years. They were in hiding after Our Lord was arrested. St. John, the youngest, was the only one with enough love strong enough not to hide. But he returned to them. He and St. Peter ran to the empty tomb on the day of the Resurrection. Because Peter was appointed the head by Christ, St. John let St. Peter enter the tomb first.
That evening Christ appeared to them in His resurrected state, and gave them the power to forgive sins.
But it was not until Pentecost – the beginning of the Church – that the Holy Spirit descended upon them, confirmed the Apostles in faith and strength, and gave them the ability to communicate not only to the multitudes, but several of them the grace to compose the Gospels.
Being with Christ, and acknowledging Him as the Savior of the world, witnessing His teachings, miracles, His passion and resurrection, would be sufficient for human memory.
There are people all over the world who have their own private encounters in one way or another with Christ and they never forget that one, transforming moment.
K
Kristofer88
Guest
To be honest I cannot take a religion seriously in which their greatest prophet was illiterate yet wrote, kept slaves yet was a man of God, and had multiple wives. To add to this, it is illogical to believe that a good person will receive 77 virgins when they go to heaven, only the mind of a man could write something such as this. Procreation is a thing of this life, not the next, so virgins aren’t needed, especially considering we will not be united with our bodies until the gospels have completely been fulfilled and Jesus returns for the final time.
This is just using simple logic, it is clear this was written by a human with no influence from God, however; some parts are true since they stem from the old testament as well as a very distorted version of the new testament. I pray that Muslims around the world understand that their religion lacks the teachings of Jesus Christ and one day convert to Catholicism.
This is just using simple logic, it is clear this was written by a human with no influence from God, however; some parts are true since they stem from the old testament as well as a very distorted version of the new testament. I pray that Muslims around the world understand that their religion lacks the teachings of Jesus Christ and one day convert to Catholicism.
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Reuben_J
Guest
You may want to know that Allah’s revelation that speaks out from the mouth of Mohammad actually allows him to do what mankind cannot. Muslims say that he was merely a prophet and a man and they would say that all men are equal in the eyes of Allah.
Either Mohammad was not human or the revelation was not from Allah, it got to be either one.
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Kristofer88
Guest
So its not in the realm of possibility that the man somehow wasn’t sane, he didn’t write it and had no revelation? If that’s the case then how about that Arizona shooter from last week say he has a revelation from God and for us to do whatever he says? Logically, I am more inclined to believe someone with a good past, not someone with slaves, and many many wives. If God told him these things then why didn’t God also mention we were all made equal and to relinquish his slaves? Must be because God is not all powerful correct? Which brings me to my second statement.
Since God IS all power, He very well could come into human form (Jesus) and live amongst us, to deny this possibility is to say God is not all powerful, something for Muslims to think about…
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