V
Valke2
Guest
No. You obviously believe that your religious beliefs make it impossible for you to be friends with muslims.
- Status
J
Jesusisgod
Guest
Happygal, if being christian only means making friends to you, I suggest you join the Confucianists instead. Would you consider making friends with Satan something that is philanthropic? Or do you think being christian is ONLY about making friends with everyone?
I mean, we ARE talking about religious reasons right?
Sure, Jesus mixed with Samaritans, no problem there. Why? Cos these samaritans worshipped the same God and looked forward to the Saviour. But hey, did Jesus mix with the Pharisees in general?! NO. Why? There’s a religious conflict there.
SPIRITUALLY. And I mean that, christians CANNOT mix with muslims for the simple reason that islam denounces the deity of Christ and denies the Father-Son relationship. And the bible says they are anti-christ. They are the foes of Christ.
Being a christian means being charitable, but NOT to the point of being friends with followers of the demon who openly denounce your faith and saying your beliefs are worthless. Hey, by allowing that you just destroyed your own faith. If you want to be friends with them, please bear in mind that they worship an idol in Mecca and they and their allah are the enemies of God.
Are you a christian? By that, I mean according to the standards of scripture.
I mean, we ARE talking about religious reasons right?
Sure, Jesus mixed with Samaritans, no problem there. Why? Cos these samaritans worshipped the same God and looked forward to the Saviour. But hey, did Jesus mix with the Pharisees in general?! NO. Why? There’s a religious conflict there.
SPIRITUALLY. And I mean that, christians CANNOT mix with muslims for the simple reason that islam denounces the deity of Christ and denies the Father-Son relationship. And the bible says they are anti-christ. They are the foes of Christ.
Being a christian means being charitable, but NOT to the point of being friends with followers of the demon who openly denounce your faith and saying your beliefs are worthless. Hey, by allowing that you just destroyed your own faith. If you want to be friends with them, please bear in mind that they worship an idol in Mecca and they and their allah are the enemies of God.
Are you a christian? By that, I mean according to the standards of scripture.
C
catholic2
Guest
While you are waiting for a response fm Montalban;
fyi: The Koran re marrying unbelievers:**
2:221** Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, …
P
pira114
Guest
Now you’re telling me what I believe? In a sense that’s true. I’m a Catholic. They cannot befriend a Catholic, and in fact are sworn enemies, so yes, it is impossible. But not by my doing. If they truely believed in religious tolorance, I’d have no problem.
M
Montalban
Guest
Surah Al-'Imran (Chapter 3: The Family of Imran) Ayah [69] (or Koran 3:69 as an easier way of referencing)
A party of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish to lead you astray. But they shall not lead astray anyone except themselves, and they perceive not.
Muslim forbidding his non-Muslim wife to celebrate her religious festivals
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=70177&ln=eng
They save a lot of vitriol for the Jews. By way of example;
5:93 the Jews are cursed
5:51 don’t take a Jew as a friend
5:53 Jews (and Christians) are losers
5:57 Don’t choose Jews, (or Christians, or disbelievers) as guardians
5:59 Jews (and Christians) are evil-doers
5:63 Rabbis do evil
Browse though the Koran, if you wish to check the Suras I quoted
hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html
con’t…
A party of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish to lead you astray. But they shall not lead astray anyone except themselves, and they perceive not.
I hadn’t listed it. I was merely pointing out that in addition to the one’s I’d listed there was others, such as this one (see link). It forbids her from such evils as the ringing of bells.
Muslim forbidding his non-Muslim wife to celebrate her religious festivals
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=70177&ln=eng
As far as Moslems are concerned, Moslems have the Koran which comes directly from their god (via the angel Gabriel). Although they acknowledge Christians and Jews as having been given previous revelations, they believe we (Jews and Christians) messed these revelations up. They accuse Jews especially of doing so deliberately.
They save a lot of vitriol for the Jews. By way of example;
5:93 the Jews are cursed
5:51 don’t take a Jew as a friend
5:53 Jews (and Christians) are losers
5:57 Don’t choose Jews, (or Christians, or disbelievers) as guardians
5:59 Jews (and Christians) are evil-doers
5:63 Rabbis do evil
Well Moslems are confused. In Koran 5:5 they accept as halal (permitted) all foods prepared by Chrisitans and Jews. So whilst they’re happy to eat from us (subject of course to other specific dietary laws), they call our ceremonies evil.
No, by their rationale we deliberately corrupted the earlier revelations of al-lah.
Certainly there are many foods in common
I’m not doing this at all. So the ‘illogic’ is in your own re-working of my post. I am a Christian, so I’m not calling Christian practice evil. I’m saying that this is what Moslems believe… those that are informed about their faith. I have some nice Moslem neighbours, and work with Moslems. One, who’s Turkish, I know for a fact her husband (also Turkish) drinks beer. I don’t base my understanding on Islam on them, any more than I would simply stop a Catholic on the street and ask for his opinion on the Transubstantiation and deem his answer to be ‘it’ as far as Catholicism goes.
Certainly. Islam is not stemming from the Bible. It stems from a created creature who spoke to Muhammed and led him to darkness. It is why his faith is so mixed up.
I never said this.
Browse though the Koran, if you wish to check the Suras I quoted
hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html
con’t…
M
Montalban
Guest
Here’s some more, just on friendship. Note not once do I quote a non-Moslem source, and just for good measure offer up some quotes from two other totally different Islamic web-resource sites.
Koran 5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya’ to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya’, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust).
Really the only time they are supposed to is in order to get new converts, or out of necessity.
It is not permissible for a Muslim man or woman to take a male or female friend who is not a Muslim, because Allaah has forbidden us to love the kuffaar or take them as close friends and companions
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=69876&ln=eng
It is permissible for you to let your aunt stay with you so that you can call her to Islam and encourage her with wisdom and beautiful preaching, If she sees you and your good attitude and kind treatment, that may be a means of opening her heart to this great religion. Attitude and actions may often be more eloquent than words and preaching. So strive hard to do that, and if Allaah guides her at your hands, that will be better for you than this world and everything in it.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=70219&ln=eng
Question :
In the Quraan, it says that we can not take the Kuffaar as awliyaa, but what does that mean? I mean, to what degree? Can we do business with them still? If I’m at school, can we play basketball with them? Can we talk to them about basketball and stuff? Can we hang out with them as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves? The reason I ask is because someone I know does hang out with them in this way and it doesn’t affect his beliefs, but I still tell him, “Why don’t you hang out with the muslims instead?” He says that most or many of the Muslims drink and take drugs where they hang out and they have girlfriends and he’s afraid that the sins of the Muslims will lure him, yet he’s sure that the Kufr of the Kaafirs will not lure him because that’s something that isn’t attractive to him. So is hanging out with them, playing sports with them, and talking with them about sports considered as “taking them as awliyaa instead of the believers” keeping in mind that he is doing that for his own eemaan?.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=59879&ln=eng
Here’s a site that sincerely believes all non-Muslims are condemned, so friendship requires the invitation to Islam.
Since you have feelings of concern for your friends, why don’t you give them Da’awah (invitation) to Islam. It is stated in the Hadith that ‘A true friend is he who invites his friend to the straight path, i.e. towards Islam, good deeds, charity, etc.’ Make lots of du’aa for your non-Muslim friends that Allah grant them the wealth of Imaan and that they realise the truth from falsehood.
islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=12410
Again the issue of being freinds for the purposes of conversion arises…
" Islam is the religion of tolerance, ease and flexibility, and at the same time, it is the religion of justice. Hospitality is a part of Islaamic good manners, but if the guest is a disbeliever, then the ruling differs according to the different intention of the host and the different types of hospitality he offers him. If his intention is legitimate, based upon his desire to create harmony between himself and the disbeliever, so that he may call him to Islaam and save him from kufr and misguidance, then his intention is honourable."
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0020111_1.htm
You’re not even considered a ‘brother’ of a Muslim
"Question: Does not brotherhood extend to all of mankind because it is established that Aadam was the forefather of everyone?
Response: This is not so. There is no doubt that everyone is from the offspring of Aadam but we do not say, “This is my brother,” when referring to a disbeliever meaning by that within the brotherhood of man. We can only refer to him as brother when there is a relationship by descent or lineage.
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0000920_5.htm
Although this deals with marriage, the implications of ‘mixing’ with non-Muslims still arises…
"Question: What is your advice concerning some Muslim minorities marrying disbelieving women who do not believe in the existence of a Creator and what is the effect of that upon the children?
Response: My advice to all Muslims is that they should not marry anyone who is not a Muslim.
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0000822_5.htm
Koran 5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya’ to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya’, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust).
Really the only time they are supposed to is in order to get new converts, or out of necessity.
It is not permissible for a Muslim man or woman to take a male or female friend who is not a Muslim, because Allaah has forbidden us to love the kuffaar or take them as close friends and companions
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=69876&ln=eng
It is permissible for you to let your aunt stay with you so that you can call her to Islam and encourage her with wisdom and beautiful preaching, If she sees you and your good attitude and kind treatment, that may be a means of opening her heart to this great religion. Attitude and actions may often be more eloquent than words and preaching. So strive hard to do that, and if Allaah guides her at your hands, that will be better for you than this world and everything in it.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=70219&ln=eng
Question :
In the Quraan, it says that we can not take the Kuffaar as awliyaa, but what does that mean? I mean, to what degree? Can we do business with them still? If I’m at school, can we play basketball with them? Can we talk to them about basketball and stuff? Can we hang out with them as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves? The reason I ask is because someone I know does hang out with them in this way and it doesn’t affect his beliefs, but I still tell him, “Why don’t you hang out with the muslims instead?” He says that most or many of the Muslims drink and take drugs where they hang out and they have girlfriends and he’s afraid that the sins of the Muslims will lure him, yet he’s sure that the Kufr of the Kaafirs will not lure him because that’s something that isn’t attractive to him. So is hanging out with them, playing sports with them, and talking with them about sports considered as “taking them as awliyaa instead of the believers” keeping in mind that he is doing that for his own eemaan?.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=59879&ln=eng
Here’s a site that sincerely believes all non-Muslims are condemned, so friendship requires the invitation to Islam.
Since you have feelings of concern for your friends, why don’t you give them Da’awah (invitation) to Islam. It is stated in the Hadith that ‘A true friend is he who invites his friend to the straight path, i.e. towards Islam, good deeds, charity, etc.’ Make lots of du’aa for your non-Muslim friends that Allah grant them the wealth of Imaan and that they realise the truth from falsehood.
islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=12410
Again the issue of being freinds for the purposes of conversion arises…
" Islam is the religion of tolerance, ease and flexibility, and at the same time, it is the religion of justice. Hospitality is a part of Islaamic good manners, but if the guest is a disbeliever, then the ruling differs according to the different intention of the host and the different types of hospitality he offers him. If his intention is legitimate, based upon his desire to create harmony between himself and the disbeliever, so that he may call him to Islaam and save him from kufr and misguidance, then his intention is honourable."
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0020111_1.htm
You’re not even considered a ‘brother’ of a Muslim
"Question: Does not brotherhood extend to all of mankind because it is established that Aadam was the forefather of everyone?
Response: This is not so. There is no doubt that everyone is from the offspring of Aadam but we do not say, “This is my brother,” when referring to a disbeliever meaning by that within the brotherhood of man. We can only refer to him as brother when there is a relationship by descent or lineage.
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0000920_5.htm
Although this deals with marriage, the implications of ‘mixing’ with non-Muslims still arises…
"Question: What is your advice concerning some Muslim minorities marrying disbelieving women who do not believe in the existence of a Creator and what is the effect of that upon the children?
Response: My advice to all Muslims is that they should not marry anyone who is not a Muslim.
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0000822_5.htm
M
Montalban
Guest
Moslems; they are fobidden from having Christians as close friends.
H
happygal
Guest
M
Morning_Star15
Guest
Thanks for the info, Montalban - very informative 
I seriously can’t understand why Muslims would say such harsh things about the Jews (not to mention Christians) especially since they relied on these religions, especially Judaism, in founding their own faith. I mean, if they say that the Jews messed up their own practices and made them evil, how can they prove that they didn’t mess up Jewish elements even more when they incorporated them into their own religion
As a Christian, I don’t follow Judaism, but I certainly acknowledge Judaism’s role in paving the way for Jesus to come and set up His Church. Sure, He could have done this some other way, but He chose to use the Jewish people for this, and spent thousands of years preparing them for His First Coming. I think that they should at least get some respect on that basis, not only from Christians, but from Muslims as well, especally since they relied on figures like Abraham and Moses for the foundation of their faith.
Karolina
Sorry, I was just expressing my frustration with the writer in the links you provided - I guess I shoudn’t shoot the messenger
I seriously can’t understand why Muslims would say such harsh things about the Jews (not to mention Christians) especially since they relied on these religions, especially Judaism, in founding their own faith. I mean, if they say that the Jews messed up their own practices and made them evil, how can they prove that they didn’t mess up Jewish elements even more when they incorporated them into their own religion
As a Christian, I don’t follow Judaism, but I certainly acknowledge Judaism’s role in paving the way for Jesus to come and set up His Church. Sure, He could have done this some other way, but He chose to use the Jewish people for this, and spent thousands of years preparing them for His First Coming. I think that they should at least get some respect on that basis, not only from Christians, but from Muslims as well, especally since they relied on figures like Abraham and Moses for the foundation of their faith.
Karolina
B
Booklover
Guest
Here are some quotes from that link. The sheer arrogance of Islam knows no limits!
"Islam is the religion of guidance, mercy and love, but there are people who force the Muslims to fight when they stand in the way of their conveying the guidance to mankind. The Muslims do not fight anyone until they have told them about the religion of Allaah and given them the choice between two things, either accepting Islam or, if they refuse Islam and keep their own religions, paying the Jizyah (tax) to the Muslims in return for protection. If they refuse both of these choices, then they are to be fought.
When we Muslims fight, it is for the sake of saving people from worshipping other people, and teaching them to worship the Lord of the Worlds, and bringing them out of the injustice of other religions to the justice of Islam, and freeing them from the constrictions of this world so that they may enjoy the bounty of this world and the Hereafter.
Islam cancels out the messages that came before it, and Allaah will not accept any other religion from anyone who comes to know of Islam during his lifetime. If people submit in Islam to the Lord of the Worlds, follow the Best of the Messengers, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and do righteous deeds, then Allaah will be pleased with them and will bless them with a good life in this world and the next."
Where do they get the idea that just because they think that their cult is the true religion, they have the right to force others to accept it, especially when their whole proof is “Mohammed said so”!
Vickie
I
inJESUS
Guest
what’s all this about? a Muslim sent a Christian a Christmas card, great…what’s this much ado about?
M
Montalban
Guest
Thank you
There follows, for them a kind of logic.
There has to be a ‘need’ for Muhammed in the first place. If Jesus was the fulfilment of the Old Testament, there’d be no point having someone come along with a message that’s different.
So, they have the Jews and Christians stuffing-up God’s message, so there is a need for a new messenger. And what kind of people would willingly do such a thing? The Jews therefore must be very bad people.
It’s sort of like with Mormonism. They believe that there was a Great Apostasy of the church, thus there was a need for someone to restore the original message.
M
Montalban
Guest
There is a need for them to feel that we messed up God’s message.
When Islam was routinized, people needed to know that what they believed was true, as it was very different from what they previously believed in (those that were pagan would still have been aware of Judeo-Christian faiths as some Arab tribes were Jewish, some Christian, and they traded with the Christian world). One way of believing this was to introduce a concept that the Jews and Christians had corrupted God’s message.
R
rtconstant
Guest
OK, seriously just because that the quran says something doesn’t mean that every muslim takes it litterally or thinks about it much at all. Most people or most religions really don’t know much at all about their respective beliefs. Half my friends are Muslim and I (as the Christian) am the only one of them that’s actually read the quran. They’re muslim because that they grew up in or their families came from a muslim nation.
Most of the muslims I know celebrate Christmas and eat ham sandwiches during Ramadan. They don’t care about their mulamas or what their moron political leaders think or say (other than the fact that most of them want their political leaders to die). So seriously getting fired up because the OP stated that she was pleasantly surprised by a muslim friend being nice enough to send her a Christmas Card is just goofy. She posted here so I’m going to assume it didn’t blow up or was infected by anthrax as such I think the OP’s safe.
BTW, to the OP I’m glad you liked your card and Merry Christmas.
Most of the muslims I know celebrate Christmas and eat ham sandwiches during Ramadan. They don’t care about their mulamas or what their moron political leaders think or say (other than the fact that most of them want their political leaders to die). So seriously getting fired up because the OP stated that she was pleasantly surprised by a muslim friend being nice enough to send her a Christmas Card is just goofy. She posted here so I’m going to assume it didn’t blow up or was infected by anthrax as such I think the OP’s safe.
BTW, to the OP I’m glad you liked your card and Merry Christmas.
I
inJESUS
Guest
true. I am surprised too by some comments.
M
Montalban
Guest
You are offering a truism. And it still ignores the fact that I, for one didn’t just quote the Koran, but Islamic advice sites.
The only one I see fired up are the few apologists* here who get upset that someone cites Moslems dealing with Islam and then pretends that this itself is an opinion of the poster citing it.
I for one have noted too that most Moslems have little idea about their own faith.
All I have pointed out is that people who are Moslems, if they followed their own faith, wouldn’t have sent the e-card. The person’s gesture, nice that it is, is not an example of Islamic belief.
*-not implying yourself.
M
Montalban
Guest
It goes to show that it’s irrelevant; the fact the person who sent the e-card is a Moslem.
They are not doing this act because of Islamic belief. They are simply doing a nice gesture at Christmas time.
There is no connection here between what they did and their faith.
It’s like saying one is amazed that the person who helped them on the street was an atheist.
J
Jesusisgod
Guest
Happygal, I am disappointed that you need even someone to tell you about those verses. Nevermind, I quote you to save you time.
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah). Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father (God) and the Son (Son of God).
2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Happygal,
You have not answered my post.
When Jesus said “brother against sister, mother against daughter” what does it mean? Do you understand? Can you explain this to me?
Can I assume that you don’t know? I probably can. What you know of Christianity, you probably learnt from television and friends. Christianity means to accept Christ and to live for Jesus according to His teachings. It does not mean accepting friendship from everywhere. Note, I’m not telling you to hate these people, I’m just telling you to know where you stand if you think you are Christian.
And no, I’m NOT just talking about extremist muslims because even though these are the TRUE muslims, all muslims worship allah and esteem Muhammad who taught them to kill Jews and Christians and deny the deity of Christ. This is a FACT. If you think you want to mix with the “moderate”/ignorant ones because they are safe, that’s your choice but don’t you mix the two together. You don’t have to hate them. But are they your friends? The followers of demons?
Whether they be doing it out of goodwill is not as important as you knowing where you stand. They may not know the will of their allah to kill infidels, but are you telling me that you also are equally ignorant?
So, we have two groups of ignorant followers shaking hands while their respective celestial beings are fighting it out at the spiritual realm? I suggest seriously that you re-look into the bible before telling people you are a christian. Same with your muslim friends. Re-look at the Q’uran before telling people they are true muslims.
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah). Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father (God) and the Son (Son of God).
2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Happygal,
You have not answered my post.
When Jesus said “brother against sister, mother against daughter” what does it mean? Do you understand? Can you explain this to me?
Can I assume that you don’t know? I probably can. What you know of Christianity, you probably learnt from television and friends. Christianity means to accept Christ and to live for Jesus according to His teachings. It does not mean accepting friendship from everywhere. Note, I’m not telling you to hate these people, I’m just telling you to know where you stand if you think you are Christian.
And no, I’m NOT just talking about extremist muslims because even though these are the TRUE muslims, all muslims worship allah and esteem Muhammad who taught them to kill Jews and Christians and deny the deity of Christ. This is a FACT. If you think you want to mix with the “moderate”/ignorant ones because they are safe, that’s your choice but don’t you mix the two together. You don’t have to hate them. But are they your friends? The followers of demons?
Whether they be doing it out of goodwill is not as important as you knowing where you stand. They may not know the will of their allah to kill infidels, but are you telling me that you also are equally ignorant?
So, we have two groups of ignorant followers shaking hands while their respective celestial beings are fighting it out at the spiritual realm? I suggest seriously that you re-look into the bible before telling people you are a christian. Same with your muslim friends. Re-look at the Q’uran before telling people they are true muslims.
C
catholic2
Guest
I enjoy your vivid imagery…ignorant followers shaking hands while their respective celestial beings are fighting it out!, Ha! May I suggest that you quote the entire passage of 1 John 2:22, because it points out that muslims do not have the Father because they deny the Son…so who is Allah?
M
Montalban
Guest
Though, the previous pope claimed that Moslems and Catholics worship the same god.
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