Muslim friends... We will NOT convert...

[kujo313]

You need to keep your anti-Catholic rants to yourself and off this thread. People like you merely lower the tone of discussion and add nothing to our knowledge. Your comments show both your ignorance and lack of class.

Huh? First you post such a title, THEN you get angry if anybody comments on it. You can research it for yourself inside those magazines. The one terrorist that had a “shoe bomb” was a westerner converted to Islam. There are millions more westerners that have converted, too. It’s so easy for them to apply.
You want answers from anti-catholics and then you don’t like the answers.

 

[LilyM]

A recent article in Newsweek (or was it Time?) said that many westerners are converting to Islam because it takes too long to convert to Catholicism. It takes months of classes just to be a member while Islam only takes repeating some simple words.

And converting to evangelical Christianity? :ehh: Hardly needs ten months either! More like a simple prayer if I understand correctly.

Not liking Catholicism doesn’t mean you’re going to jump straight over to Islam - after all you haven’t, have you kujo?

 

[kellie]

For all here who wish to pray for my soul, I humbly request that you do it in the correct “Judeo-Christian” way as followed by none other than Jesus (pbuh) himself.

In a book entitled, “To Pray as a Jew”, a lengthy explanation is given of the Prayers as done by the ancient Jews and a few of the contemporary Jews. In this book the author put diagrams showing the movement and positions during the prayer and one quickly realizes the similarity of the prayers of the Jews then and the Salat as practiced by the Muslims.

http://www.submission.org/jews-1.jpghttp://www.submission.org/jews-2.jpg

In his comment about these positions the author wrote : “In most contemporary congregations very few people keep to the tradition of falling prostrate. Sometimes it is only the Prayer leader and the rabbi who does so. In more traditional congregations, however, some worshipers, men and women, will join the Prayer Leader and rabbi in the act of prostrating themselves. In Israeli synagogues, the practice is more widespread than in synagogues elsewhere. Since this is a position that we are unaccustomed to, one who has never done this before might very well demur. But once accomplished, the experience provides such a spiritual uplift that one looks forward to repeating it. Those willing to try this ancient ritual form on the rare occasions that call for it might welcome the following diagrams of the correct procedure”

It is also interesting to learn from this book that the prayers of the Jews involve wash before the prayers, (like Wuduu or ablution for Muslims), and the call for Prayers (like the Azan for the Muslims).

But ham,

We aren’t Jewish !

 

[LilyM]

This reminds me of some Catholics at Adoration.

Exactly so - and all Catholics at Mass even (stand, kneel, stand, bow when approaching for Communion and so on)

 

[Sixtus]

dolphinlove posted:

Ive noticed a slight increase in this non-catholic religions thread about muslims telling us how wrong Christianity is.
We believe Jesus to be the SON of God, who DIED on the cross for us, our sins. And nothing anyone says or does will not make me, and im sure many others on here, too change our minds and convert.
I could really get into the thousands of other reasons why I would not convert, but I think this one reason is good enough for me to believe in Christianity.
God bless you all and may the Holy Spirit blesses you like it blesses all of us.

Amen

 

[julie_s]

I find it very interesting that Muslim’s love Mary and I read somewhere that they even attend places like Fatima along side with Catholics on pilgrimage days.In their Quran Mary is mentioned something like 24 times.The place called Fatima was named that because of a Muslim who married a catholic .Fatima is an arabic name and one of the daughters of Mohammad was named Fatima and of cause that is one of the most famous apparition sites of Mary our Mother of God.
Through Mary her immaculate Heart will triumph and will lead all souls to Jesus.

 

[Randy_Carson]

The theif on the cross didn’t have to take any classes, just believed in Jesus as his Savior. Peter didn’t have to break into any long prayers repeated on a string of prayer beads. He simply reached his hand towards Jesus and said “help me”!

Are we supposed to take this seriously?

The theif (sic) had a few minutes (maybe a couple of hours) to live. He was saved by his faith and “baptism of desire”. Peter, on the other hand, spent three years living in close quarters with the Son of God. The idea that one should not take proper religious instruction before joining a particular denomination is absurd and reflects the “easy-believism” of the “altar-call-and-sinner’s-prayer” crowd.

In the United States, we all have the freedom of religion. My neighbor can be any religion he or she wants to be. If I want to convert my neighbors, I must SHOW them Jesus in what I say and do.

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? (Romans 10:14)

Sounds like religious instruction to me.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[paarsurrey]

I find it very interesting that Muslim’s love Mary

Hi
Yes, Muslims do love Jesus and Mary but we don’t belive that Mary ascended physically to skies, we also don’t seek anything from her in our prayers as do some Christian friends as mentioned in the following link:
The Loreto Litanies - The Rosary - The Holy See (English)
… God the Holy Spirit, Holy Trinity, one God, Holy Mary, pray for us. Holy Mother of God, Holy Virgin of virgins,…

Unquote
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[hosemonkey]

Huh? First you post such a title, THEN you get angry if anybody comments on it. You can research it for yourself inside those magazines. The one terrorist that had a “shoe bomb” was a westerner converted to Islam. There are millions more westerners that have converted, too. It’s so easy for them to apply.
You want answers from anti-catholics and then you don’t like the answers.

Don’t play dumb. You do not have answers. Conversion to Islam has nothing to do with your obvious hatred for and ignorance of Catholicism. Your comments are straight out of Jack Chick and exibit the same level of venom. If you are honestly inquiring, fine. If you come here to just drop stupid barbs and then leave, you are not welcome. You are, by your own admission, anti-Catholic.

 

[BelFarfalla]

A recent article in Newsweek (or was it Time?) said that many westerners are converting to Islam because it takes too long to convert to Catholicism. It takes months of classes just to be a member while Islam only takes repeating some simple words…

Yes Muslim accept a person who states the ‘pledge. It does not matter if they even understand anything about the club they are joining when they do this. In any case, Islam is a religion that requires its followers to do a lot of work to learn the faith… after all they have to learn how to perform adulation, when and how to pray 5 times a day, about all the fast days, all the rules…
But then after that, when they realize what they have joined and want to leave, it I apostasy and the sentence for that is death. Muhammad stated very clearly that anyone who leaves Isalm is to be killed.

Most westerners who join Islam leave it with in 5 years. Because they live in western countries they do not take the death sentence for apostacy seriously… though some of them learn that it is serious. Two members of my family have been in hiding for a couple of years now. They are Catholics who converted to Islam. They left Islam after a few years and have had attempts made on their lives. Some westerners try on religions like clothing in a store… not taking it all that seriously. And of course those who entice them into Islam leave out the entire death to apostates thing.

 

[Frank_Fenn]

Let me add my point to this if I may? Whether or not we agree or disagree with Islam, the fact remains that even if we do not hold the same opinion as they do, we must respect what they believe. I have never been coerced by anyone to come into Christianity, and I know alot of Muslims as well. They have never disrespcted me, or what I believe. As a matter of fact, they have been nothing but respectful.

We have had many a conversation with Muslims, and the ones we spoke to sincerely listen to what we have told them about Catholicism. Never once did we argue or get into a heated debate.
We questioned them, and they qiestioned us. It was a fair conversation, and charitable on both sides. My wife has a Muslim friend, as the lady she is friends with is a pharmacist. She wears her head covering.

My wife also wears a head covering to the TLM. My wife was discussing this with her, and they became friends. There does not need to be anything but respectful on both sides.

You do not have to convert to Islam to try to understand what they believe, and they do not have to convert to Catholicism to try to understand what we believe. There is room for charitable debate here on both sides of the coin is there not?

In order to understand what someone believes, you have to be willing to listen. The Muslims we spoke to were genuinely suprised that traditional Catholic women cover their heads at Mass. and it led to many an interesting and charitable discussion.

Did not John Paul II state that we must respect what others believe even if we do not agree with it? I believe he did. and I will look it up.

He had a very good rapport with Muslims did he not? Same as with Jews. i believe he did. He achieved alot. His dialogue with both has opened the doors to better discussions and even peace has it not?

 

[BelFarfalla]

Huh? First you post such a title, THEN you get angry if anybody comments on it. You can research it for yourself inside those magazines. The one terrorist that had a “shoe bomb” was a westerner converted to Islam. There are millions more westerners that have converted, too. It’s so easy for them to apply.
You want answers from anti-catholics and then you don’t like the answers.

So that’s all there is to Islam? One just makes an easy application, recites a few words and that’s the end to the religion? You really what us to believe that? :dts:

 

[BelFarfalla]

Let me add my point to this if I may? Whether or not we agree or disagree with Islam, the fact remains that even if we do not hold the same opinion as they do, we must respect what they believe.

No we do not HAVE to respect anything anyone believes. In the USA we simply cannot interfere with their right to believe as they choose. There is a very distinct difference.
Muslims have no respect for any other religion, not even Judaism or Christianity. The Qur’an and other holy literature rants on about how they are the replacement for Judaism and Christianity which they must wipe out. And that they must wipe out all others because they are not believers of Islam.
There are things about Islamic beliefs that I do not respect.

• Apostates (anyone who leaves Islam) must be executed.
• Adulterers and fornicators must be killed, usually by death.
• A Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man. It’s apostasy and hence punishable by death for her… and death for him for daring to defile something that belongs to Islam.
• The Qur’an calls Christians and Jews monkeys and pigs.
• All Muslims are required to participate in jihad (the violent war type of jihad) against all non-Muslims until all non-Muslims are converted, subjugated or killed.
• All non-Muslims living under Islamic rule are by religious laws second class citizens with few if any rights.
• According to the Qur’an Muslims are ordered to not take non-Muslims as friends because non-Muslims cannot be trusted.
• In the Qur’an Muhammad instructed men to beat their wives to keep them in line.
• Since Muhammad married a 6 year old girl and consummated the marriage when she was 9 years old, Islam sets the age of marital consent to 9 years old for girls. We call it child abuse, they call it marriage.
• The ‘peaceful’ parts of Islam are the parts that tell Muslims how to live with each other. The part of the Qur’an and hadiths dealing with non-Muslims is not peaceful. Islam divides the world in two… the world of Islam and the world of war. Islam considers itself to be in perpetual war with all things and people non-Islamic.
• Islam institutionalizes slavery in such a way that it cannot be outlawed. Female prisoners of war become slaves, their marriages are automatically ended and they now owe sex to their Islamic owners.

I don’t think that any right-minded person can respect any of the above core tenants of Islam. To do so is to be a co-conspirator in one’s own subjugation or exterminations.
I lived in Muslim countries as a child. I saw how it works…. I saw the quite, unreported, slaughter of dozens of Christians. It’s not a pretty thing to see.

I can and do respect individual Muslims who do not subscribe to the above liste tenents/laws of Islam. If they reject those parts of their religion then they are truely good people. But I cannot respect Islam as a religion.

 

[Frank_Fenn]

Well, your entitled to your opinion. I also mine. I respect and believe that others have a right to believe what they want to. We have freedom of choice. God did not make us automatons did He? No.

He gave us free will. If people chose to believe something different, that is their choice.

I do not like violence, and do not condone it by anyone no matter what belief they are. There is no need for violence in any belief.

All beliefs can get along even if they do not believe the same things
as you or I.

 

[BelFarfalla]

I have never been coerced by anyone to come into Christianity, and I know a lot of Muslims as well. They have never disrespcted me, or what I believe. As a matter of fact, they have been nothing but respectful.

Have you asked them the following questions?
– What is their opinion of the fact that in Saudi Arabia no non-Muslim worship is allowed.
– Do they approve/disapprove of the fact that Bibles are confiscated at the Saudi airport and shredded.
– Do they approve/disapprove of Saudi arresting and prosecuting Christian (or any other non-Muslim) who privately worships their religion in their own home?
–Do they agree that in Islamic countries, that anyone who attempts to convert a Muslim should be prosecuted by the law?
–Ask them about the verse in the Qur’an that states that Muslims cannot have Christians and Jews a friends.
–Do they support the execution of adulterers and fornicators?
–Do they support the execution of apostates of Islam?
–Research the topics in the list I gave in the above post… then ask your friends about those.
I’ve had very good conversations with Muslims, and I have spoken to hundreds on the topic of their religion. When the topic gets to the items on my list it goes down hill. I have never met/spoken to one Muslim who rejects any of those items. Their answer is that it is the law of God so they have no choice.

Did not John Paul II state that we must respect what others believe even if we do not agree with it? I believe he did. and I will look it up.

He did not mean that we have to respect their beliefs but instead that we have to respect their right to those beliefs. Pope John Paul II expressed that he respected the faith of Muslims as they truly do believe in God. But have no doubt that he did not respect their belief that Christianity is a form of paganism, a terrible blasphemy and their belief that the Bible (especially the NT) is a forgery made by men to justify a decadent lifestyle.

He had a very good rapport with Muslims did he not? Same as with Jews. i believe he did. He achieved alot. His dialogue with both has opened the doors to better discussions and even peace has it not?

Pope John Paul II was trying to built ties to the Islamic community. He showed them respect. The way they saw it was that he, the Pope, bowed down to the superiority of Islam. Note that the Islamic leaders never offered any such reconciliation in return. Pope Benedict – who was probably a major influence in Pope John Paul’ s stance to Islam. Why has Pope Benedict now taken a harder stance against Islam? He stated it clearly… Catholics offered the olive branch and the Islamic leaders have never reciprocated but instead continue to preach hate towards all Catholics and other Christians.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Well, your entitled to your opinion. I also mine. I respect and believe that others have a right to believe what they want to. We have freedom of choice. God did not make us automatons did He? No.

He gave us free will. If people chose to believe something different, that is their choice.

I do not like violence, and do not condone it by anyone no matter what belief they are. There is no need for violence in any belief.

All beliefs can get along even if they do not believe the same things
as you or I.

You are contradicting what you said. First you said that you respect the beliefs of Islam. Then you say that you do not respect the violence. So in reality you do not respect a large protion of Islamic beliefs according the last part of the above post.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
Yes, Muslims do love Jesus and Mary but we don’t belive that Mary ascended physically to skies, we also don’t seek anything from her in our prayers as do some Christian friends as mentioned in the following link:
The Loreto Litanies - The Rosary - The Holy See (English)
… God the Holy Spirit, Holy Trinity, one God, Holy Mary, pray for us. Holy Mother of God, Holy Virgin of virgins,…

Instead Muslims believe that Muhammad ascended physically into heaven. Muslims have raised Muhammad to a level close to god-hood. We have seen with things like the cartoon fiasco about two years ago.

 

[Hellisreal]

I would say that Muslims can try to evangelize all they want to. They may get a convert here, I dont know. I hope not. But, the good thing is they are here and maybe they will break down and convert to Christianity.

Its something we can be hopeful about.

 

[BelFarfalla]

I would say that Muslims can try to evangelize all they want to. They may get a convert here, I dont know. I hope not. But, the good thing is they are here and maybe they will break down and convert to Christianity.
Its something we can be hopeful about.

So true…
I have a friend, a protestant who married a Catholic. He admits that when he married her he had every intention of converting her to his sect. He truly believed that Catholicism was false. So shortly after their marriage he started studying to find the approach that would get her to see the falsehood of Catholicism. He says that after months of this study… he came to realize that Protestantism is wrong… that Catholics have been right all along. He has been a happy Catholic ever since.

 

[BelFarfalla]

I would say that Muslims can try to evangelize all they want to. They may get a convert here, I dont know. I hope not. But, the good thing is they are here and maybe they will break down and convert to Christianity.

Its something we can be hopeful about.

In Africa alone, 6 million Muslims leave Islam for Christianity a year.
formermuslims.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=972

The Muezzin call to prayer. But here in France it is no longer reaching all Muslim ears.

Around 15,000 Muslims each year are converting to Christianity - around 10,000 to Catholicism and 5,000 to Protestantism.
zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?rep=2&aid=352375&sid=ZNS