Muslim friends... We will NOT convert...

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey:
From an outsider’s viewpoint, YOUR sect is the “radical” one.

Hi
Without prejudice to your ‘outsiders viewpoint’, we Ahmadis are peaceful people never hurt other physically or verbally. We present our views with reasonable , rational and logical arguments and leave to others to accept or reject them.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[Zooey]

Hi
Without prejudice to your ‘outsiders viewpoint’, we Ahmadis are peaceful people never hurt other physically or verbally. We present our views with reasonable , rational and logical arguments and leave to others to accept or reject them.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

I believe that is what was meant…That your kind of Islam is radically different from what we here in the USA, especially, have been exposed to…
In fact, I have to say that, for myself…We have a lot of Muslims who post here. You are only the 2nd one that I personally can recall, who has been polite & who seemed to be a person whose faith I can respect as genuine…The others all seem to show up to try to drag us kicking into Islam at the point of a sword!!

I don’t agree with what you believe. Not at all. But I thank you for showing us that not all Muslims are like the ones who preach hatred for all who will not convert…

That said: [SIGN]:byzsoc: I will not convert! Praise be to the Lord Jesus Christ, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords!! “Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord!!” [/SIGN]

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
Without prejudice to your ‘outsiders viewpoint’, we Ahmadis are peaceful people never hurt other physically or verbally. We present our views with reasonable , rational and logical arguments and leave to others to accept or reject them.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

I agree with what Zooey said. He meant that you are peaceful and therefore not like mainstream islam. In the USA about 90% fo the Mosques and Islamic schools are funded by teh Saudi government. I’m sure you know that they are a violnet branch of isalm… the hate literature they distribute in their mosques is scary.

 

[paarsurrey]

I don’t agree with what you believe. Not at all. But I thank you for showing us that not all Muslims are like the ones who preach hatred for all who will not convert… [/SIGN]

Hi
All those persons whom my friend Belfarfalla considers mainstream ( while their stream has since dried up from any spiritual waters), we don’t deny their right of calling themselves Muslims, but they are following hardened clergy which in fact has no place in Islam; while they were asked to follow Allah and his Prophet Muhammad- a reperesentitive of all the ProphetsMessengers of revealed religions of the world. Muhammd preached peace, and peace and nothing but peace; only he has been misunderstood by the West due to wrong doings of these so called ‘mainstream’ peoples.Muhammad was a prince of peace, if you could realize it.
Love for all , hatred for none.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[BelFarfalla]

paarsurrey:
Hi
All those persons whom my friend Belfarfalla considers mainstream ( while their stream has since dried up from any spiritual waters), we don’t deny their right of calling themselves Muslims, but they are following hardened clergy which in fact has no place in Islam; while they were asked to follow Allah and his Prophet Muhammad- a reperesentitive of all the ProphetsMessengers of revealed religions of the world. Muhammd preached peace, and peace and nothing but peace; only he has been misunderstood by the West due to wrong doings of these so called ‘mainstream’ peoples.Muhammad was a prince of peace, if you could realize it.
Love for all , hatred for none.

We call them mainstream because they have always been the majority of Isalm.
I respect your beliefs, from what I’ve seen of them your sect is a good peaceful one.
However, the Qur’an and Hadith totally support the more violent mainstream Muslims. For example yes the Qur’an says that there is no compulsion in religion. However it also says that Muslims are to use war to bring the world to Islam by giving non-Muslims the choice of conversion, subjugation or death. So yes it gives the infidel a choice, hence no compulsion. But the choices are evil and thus no acceptable. The choice that is left out is to totally reject Islam and not live under Islamic rule.
With apostates, again the Qur’an that there is no compulsion in religions. But the Hadiths state that an apostate must be executed. Most of Islam follows some set of Hadiths. As I’ve had it explained to me, Islam does give Muslims freedom of religion. A person can choose to convert out of Islam. But then if they pick that choice there are consequences. Muslims will not force them to return to Islam as it is their right to leave. But they will be executed. And thus the Islamic version of ‘no compulsion in relgion’ is played out.

 

[paarsurrey]

For example yes the Qur’an says that there is no compulsion in religion. However it also says that Muslims are to use war to bring the world to Islam by giving non-Muslims the choice of conversion, subjugation or death. So yes it gives the infidel a choice, hence no compulsion. But the choices are evil and thus no acceptable. The choice that is left out is to totally reject Islam and not live under Islamic rule.

Hi
It is not so, if you would research yourself, by studying Quran intently, you won’t find a single verse supporting the above expressions. You would find things explained there in the context , needing no external explanations. Quran is a wonderful compact religious book, please read it for yourself.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[Booklover]

Hi
All those persons whom my friend Belfarfalla considers mainstream ( while their stream has since dried up from any spiritual waters), we don’t deny their right of calling themselves Muslims, but they are following hardened clergy which in fact has no place in Islam; while they were asked to follow Allah and his Prophet Muhammad- a reperesentitive of all the ProphetsMessengers of revealed religions of the world. Muhammd preached peace, and peace and nothing but peace; only he has been misunderstood by the West due to wrong doings of these so called ‘mainstream’ peoples.Muhammad was a prince of peace, if you could realize it.
Love for all , hatred for none.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

I’m asking this again, you claim that Muhammad preached only peace and yet he claimed to have been made victorious by terror! How do you reconcile the two things?

Vickie

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
It is not so, if you would research yourself, by studying Quran intently, you won’t find a single verse supporting the above expressions. You would find things explained there in the context , needing no external explanations. Quran is a wonderful compact religious book, please read it for yourself.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

I have already read the Qur’an several times. I posted verses from the Qur’an earlier that state very clearly the that Muslims are to use war to bring the world to Islam by giving non-Muslims the choice of conversion, subjugation or death.

I’ll repost those and more after I get home tonight.

 

[colmywaykurtz]

I have already read the Qur’an several times. I posted verses from the Qur’an earlier that state very clearly the that Muslims are to use war to bring the world to Islam by giving non-Muslims the choice of conversion, subjugation or death.

I’ll repost those and more after I get home tonight.

How about it, paarsurrey? How about answering this post of BelFarfalla’s?

 

[paarsurrey]

I have already read the Qur’an several times. I posted verses from the Qur’an earlier that state very clearly the that Muslims are to use war to bring the world to Islam by giving non-Muslims the choice of conversion, subjugation or death.
I’ll repost those and more after I get home tonight.

Hi
It is good that you have yourself studied the Quran from cover to cover several times. Of course you have every right to have your different opinion in sincerity. Please don’t post all, first mention one verse/passage which you think is strongest in your support. We will try to understand what Quran/Islam says. We will have discussion, not a debate, please keep in mind.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
It is good that you have yourself studied the Quran from cover to cover several times. Of course you have every right to have your different opinion in sincerity. Please don’t post all, first mention one verse/passage which you think is strongest in your support. We will try to understand what Quran/Islam says. We will have discussion, not a debate, please keep in mind.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

Qur’an 47: 5. And when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve, smite their necks; and, when you have overcome them, by causing great slaughter among them, bind fast the fetters - then afterwards either release them as a favour or by taking ransom - until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance. And if ALLAH had so pleased, HE could have punished them Himself, but HE has willed that HE may try some of you by others. And those who are killed in the way of ALLAH - HE will never render their works vain.

Qur’an 8:12. When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

 

[MelanieAnne]

We will not convert. Islam is a heresy. Please come home to the True Faith. We invite you, in every loving way, to come home. Your home is waiting for you.

It is said that by works you shall know faith. Look around you, no one is killing in the name of the Catholic faith. You cannot say that about Islam. Please come home. We welcome you home.

Love, Melanie

 

[stephanut]

The one frustrating thing about too many Muslims is that they “claim” that they don’t agree with terrorism only in private. You don’t see ANY public display of that from the Muslim community.
After 9/11, the news showed Muslims in their own countries dancing in the streets. How many Muslim groups in America did you hear about publicly condeming violence and acts of terrorism?

The silence is deafening.

kujo, you’re just letting the media influence you. just because you see a couple of news clips of people dancing in the streets you think that ALL muslims are like that?

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi
“when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve”
This verse is not for the peaceful preaching people, it is addressed to those people who had come with a fighting army to have a combat with the peaceful Muslims. The context is entirely different what is in you view, please.
Kindly read the correct interpretition for any such verses accessing:alislam.org/
English w/ 5 Vol. Commentary
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[MelanieAnne]

I’m sorry,but with all due respect, I agree with the question. I have NEVER seen ANY Muslim denounce ANY terrorist activity. EVER.

Sorry, but to me, to remain silent is to announce your approval. Since I have never seen ANYONE denounce any terrorist activity as wrong, I construe the silence as approval. It is up to those who believe terrorists to be wrong to speak up.

For now, anyone involved in Islam that has not stood up and said “we disagree with the terrorists” or something similar, by their very silence is giving approval.

I have often thought that, and please forgive me I do not intend to criticize, that one of the flaws of Islam is that there is no central authority, no one to say, FOR CERTAIN, that someone is out of line. Perhaps, if there were such an apparatus in Islam, the sponsors of mass murder would be “excommunicated” or whatever that would be in Islam.

But they are not, because there is no one to pronounce them outside the faith and beyond the bounds of decency. And so they continue…

We cannot fix the murderous heretics, but we can invite those gentle Muslims to come home to the True Faith. We will not convert to your heresy, but we are here, waiting for you, to come home. We welcome you. You possess part of the faith, come home and possess all of it. We want you to join us.

 

[stephanut]

I’m sorry,but with all due respect, I agree with the question. I have NEVER seen ANY Muslim denounce ANY terrorist activity. EVER.

Sorry, but to me, to remain silent is to announce your approval. Since I have never seen ANYONE denounce any terrorist activity as wrong, I construe the silence as approval. It is up to those who believe terrorists to be wrong to speak up.

For now, anyone involved in Islam that has not stood up and said “we disagree with the terrorists” or something similar, by their very silence is giving approval.

how many muslims do you know melanie? i’m not here to defend islam, but i live in a region surrounded by muslims. i have good friends who are muslims, and they do not agree with violence. my point being that the american media has flooded everyone with biased reporting such that the ordinary american believes that the ordinary muslim is a blood-thirsty, gun-toting, q’ran-spouting murderer.

 

[redmars3000]

how many muslims do you know melanie? i’m not here to defend islam, but i live in a region surrounded by muslims. i have good friends who are muslims, and they do not agree with violence. my point being that the american media has flooded everyone with biased reporting such that the ordinary american believes that the ordinary muslim is a blood-thirsty, gun-toting, q’ran-spouting murderer.

Have any of your friends unequivocally denounced 9/11 without having to mention ‘American foriegn policy’ as a source for the hijacker’s cause? You have to be specific. What exactly do your muslim friends denounce in their own words, not what u interpret them to mean.

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi
“when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve”
This verse is not for the peaceful preaching people, it is addressed to those people who had come with a fighting army to have a combat with the peaceful Muslims. The context is entirely different what is in you view, please.
Kindly read the correct interpretition for any such verses accessing:alislam.org/
English w/ 5 Vol. Commentary
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

I read the passage from the quran, and it does not say anywhere ‘those that come to fight with an army’.
It clearly says:
[47:4] If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
“when you meet in regular battle those who disbelieve”
This verse is not for the peaceful preaching people, it is addressed to those people who had come with a fighting army to have a combat with the peaceful Muslims. The context is entirely different what is in you view, please.
Kindly read the correct interpretition for any such verses accessing:alislam.org/

Like any sacred literature, taking a verse out of context can make it loose its true meaning. There is a flip side to that… taking a verse as tough it stands alone it not good either. Instread one needs to look at all verses that pertain to a subject because different aspects on one truth or one law are revealed in different verses.

Here is another verse that is one of the most important in the Qur’an on this topic. It is in chapter 9. The Qur’an has 114 verses. One of the things about the qur’an that confuses some is that it’s chapters are arranged out of order. They area arranged from longest to shortest, not in time order. The order of revelations is very important as later verses add more on topics. Some scholars say that the later verses abrograte th older ones. I don’t believe this. Instead I believe that the later verses instead tell ‘the rest of the story.’ For example a very early verse says that there is no compulasion in religion. Yet later the command comes to fight non-Muslims until they convert, subjugate (accept Isalmic rule) and kill them. So truly there is no compulsion in religion in Islam… you have a choice. Just be very careful which one you make… none of the choices offered are acceptable. So you see… the later did not abrogate the earlier verse… the later just tell us the gottcha’s in the Islamic plan for the non-Muslim world.

Another verse I want to add is this…

Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and His messenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book-until they pay the poll tax out hand and are humbled.(Koran 9:29)

]
This talks about fighting with the people of the book… Jews and Christians.

 

[MelanieAnne]

how many muslims do you know melanie? i’m not here to defend islam, but i live in a region surrounded by muslims. i have good friends who are muslims, and they do not agree with violence. my point being that the american media has flooded everyone with biased reporting such that the ordinary american believes that the ordinary muslim is a blood-thirsty, gun-toting, q’ran-spouting murderer.

I confess that I don’t know many Muslims, only a few close friends, but I do know SOME. And my circle of friends include both SUNNI and SHIA Muslims. And NONE of them have ever condemned Islamic violence EVER, AT ANY TIME. Nor have I EVER seen any evidence in the media that ANY muslim group condemns such violence. Hence, I am forced to conclude that they CONDONE it. The absence of condemnation = acceptance.

So it might be nice for you to spout your vilification of US media, but instead of that, it would be more believable if you actually cited evidence of your charges. For me, there is no evidence whatsoever that any Muslim condemns the violence of the terrorists anywhere anytime. If you have valid evidence to the contrary, please feel free to give it.

My experience is that there is no evidence that anyone condemns it. Perhaps you believe the violence is also justified? What is your reason for supporting terrorism against innocents?