Muslim friends... We will NOT convert...

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Hi
You may continue believing the above, even if it is proved wrong, that is your right, no compulsion. You need not convert if you don’t understand.
Nevertheless I have told you, that to me with reasonable and rational arguments:
  1. Jesus did not die on cross.
    2.Since he did not die on Cross so there is no question of his resurrrection from the dead.
    3.Since he did not die on Cross so there is no question of his being God or Son of God.
    4.He never ascended to heavens, or sat on the right hand of God.
    5.He died a natural and respectful death in Siringagr,Kashmir, India where he lived among lost tribes of the House Of Israel.
    This is very reasonable.
    Thanks
    I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
    The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
    GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
Why do you keep posting the same garbage like a broken record?? For someone who claims that he’s helping to bridge gaps between faiths, your continued insults against our Faith are a complete stumbling block to that!

Vickie
 
You do have a point. All that is good in Islam originally belonged to Judaism and Christianity. Sadly, many of us have forgotten and no longer prostrate. But I will never forsake Christ my God.

CDL
All that is good in Islam comes from God.

And so, the good news is that the things that are found in Judaism and Christianity which are also to be found in Islam would certainly come from the Creator as well.

On the downside, the things found in Judaism and Christianity today which are not found in Islam are not likely at all to have come from God.
 
I know they’re not held as being prophets, that wasn’t why I posted it. Why do you care if I condem muhammad and aisha’s marriage or not??? I’m not condoning child marriage if that’s what you’re talking about. But I do acknowledge that in times before, “child” marriage was more normal. One can glean from the Talmud as well as all bible scholors that I’ve heard from, that marriage at a young age was the norm back then. I agree that consumation at age 9 seems really young. But I have read about 9 yr olds being married and having children at that age (with their, and their parents approval-in the 21st century). Also, from what I’ve read in hadiths, aisha only had good things to say about muhammed, for whatever it’s worth. But again, I’m not advocating anything of the sort.
Yes there are girls even today who are married off that young and have babies. Most of them suffer horrific physical problems because of it. I’ll have to look for a study I found about what is happening to girls in places like Pakistan and Indonesia these days where they are still married off as almost babies. It will break your heart, especially if you have a daughter and actually care about her. Just because parents might have approved of a marriage, even in the 21st century does not mean anything. Some parents are SOBs who could care less about their children. This is why society at large needs to have laws to protect children… yes even to protect them from parents some times.

I can look back in history at Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha and say that what he did was wrong. But in his time, some people did that. If it stays in that time of history then fine.

But I have discussed this topic with many Muslims. Most Muslims have told me that since Muhammad did it, obviously God condones child brides, hence it is allowable even today. I know a few Muslim who were born here in the USA and converted to Islam as young adults. They want to see the age of consent here in the USA rolled back to younger ages…as young as 9 years old.

The age of marital consent for girls in Iran was 9 years old, based on the live of Muhammad, until about 5 years ago. They only changed the law because of international pressure but they left in a loop hole that still allows young girls to be married off if the courts/clerics and the girls father agree. So basically the law never changed. It just looks good on paper. Child marriages are still common in many places world wide, even where they are supposedly outlawed. And the problem is that with many Muslims is that they believe it to be just fine because of the marriage of Muhammad to Aisha.

As for early marriage in the Talmud, etc. By the time of Jesus, the Jewish law was that a marriage could not be consummated until the girl was about 14 years old. They could not be engaged until the age of 12.5. Then the engagement lasted a year. So the earliest a marriage could take place was t 13.5. Then after the marriage the girl lived with her parents for the next year while the couple ‘dated’ and got to know each other. She did not move into her husband’s home and consummate the marriage until she was 14.5. While that is young by today’s standards, it’s a whole lot older then 9 years old. The average life span in those days was something like 25 or 30 year old.

These laws had been in place for hundreds of years, they were the laws of the Jews and the Christians of that time. It was the Arab tribes who were still doing many of the things like marrying children, burying girls alive, etc.

I would have less of a problem with the marriage of Muhammad to Aisha if I had not found that most Muslims I’ve spoken to on the topic have no problem with child marriages specifically because of the example of Muhammad.
 
All that is good in Islam comes from God.

And so, the good news is that the things that are found in Judaism and Christianity which are also to be found in Islam would certainly come from the Creator as well.

On the downside, the things found in Judaism and Christianity today which are not found in Islam are not likely at all to have come from God.
On the downside, the arrogance of Islam is never ending! Nothing in Islam comes from God! Whatever is from God he copied from the Jews and the Christians! And even those he copied from Christians are from the heretical Christians with whom he came in contact with! And you keep believing that his self serving “revelations” actually come from God!

Why is Muhammad described as a cunning, evil man in the hadiths by his own followers unless he was just as vile as they claim?

How can you believe that anyone like that could ever be a prophet of God?

I don’t believe and never will, that any angel appeared to Muhammad. If one did, it was from the devil and certainly not from God! Muhammad was a narcissistic psychopath with no conscience who told many lies, borrowed from other faiths and and other civilizations, like the Persian, who was much more advanced than the barbaric “civilization” Muhammad came from. He even “borrowed” his prophethood from another false prophet, the Persian Mani! He suffered from megalomania among other things and made his living by raiding and looting caravans! He created a false god, “Allah” to gain complete power for himself and over his foolish followers! He raped women captives after having them watch their fathers and husbands tortured and murdered, he had many people assassinated simply because they wrote satyrical poems about him and had sex with a child!

His only legacy has been death and destruction. Where ever Islam goes, trouble and strife follows in its wake! And Muslims continue to believe blindly in this false prophet!

Vickie
 
On the downside, the arrogance of Islam is never ending! Nothing in Islam comes from God! Whatever is from God he copied from the Jews and the Christians! And even those he copied from Christians are from the heretical Christians with whom he came in contact with! And you keep believing that his self serving “revelations” actually come from God!

Why is Muhammad described as a cunning, evil man in the hadiths by his own followers unless he was just as vile as they claim?

How can you believe that anyone like that could ever be a prophet of God?

I don’t believe and never will, that any angel appeared to Muhammad. If one did, it was from the devil and certainly not from God! Muhammad was a narcissistic psychopath with no conscience who told many lies, borrowed from other faiths and and other civilizations, like the Persian, who was much more advanced than the barbaric “civilization” Muhammad came from. He even “borrowed” his prophethood from another false prophet, the Persian Mani! He suffered from megalomania among other things and made his living by raiding and looting caravans! He created a false god, “Allah” to gain complete power for himself and over his foolish followers! He raped women captives after having them watch their fathers and husbands tortured and murdered, he had many people assassinated simply because they wrote satyrical poems about him and had sex with a child!

His only legacy has been death and destruction. Where ever Islam goes, trouble and strife follows in its wake! And Muslims continue to believe blindly in this false prophet!

Vickie
Vickie,
I am on the same plane as you.
Muslims can not convert or even reason with us because they don’t know Christ.
Anyone who is not with us is against us, theirfore because Jesus is the (Catholic) church and we belong to it, muslims can never posobly, fully understand our faith. So how can they know who we trully are when they reject Jesus as the Son of God, the promised Messiah.

As is see it, muslims have this sense of having this confident arrogance about them. Their arrogance makes them ignorant of everything outside their beleifs.

This thread is a great way for catholics to proffess who they really are and where they stand. Also catholics are able to come to an even greater undertanding of thier own faith, through constant struggle against a tide of darkness. We all know who leads this darkness theirfore we must ask God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) for protection and a clear conscience. A clear conscience means we can explore our faith even further and with the guide of the Holy Spirit we don’t have to be afraid or ashamed of who we are. Though the whole world hates you, remember they hated Jesus first.

God Bless you
 
Vickie,
I am on the same plane as you.
Muslims can not convert or even reason with us because they don’t know Christ.
Anyone who is not with us is against us, theirfore because Jesus is the (Catholic) church and we belong to it, muslims can never posobly, fully understand our faith. So how can they know who we trully are when they reject Jesus as the Son of God, the promised Messiah.

As is see it, muslims have this sense of having this confident arrogance about them. Their arrogance makes them ignorant of everything outside their beleifs.

This thread is a great way for catholics to proffess who they really are and where they stand. Also catholics are able to come to an even greater undertanding of thier own faith, through constant struggle against a tide of darkness. We all know who leads this darkness theirfore we must ask God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) for protection and a clear conscience. A clear conscience means we can explore our faith even further and with the guide of the Holy Spirit we don’t have to be afraid or ashamed of who we are. Though the whole world hates you, remember they hated Jesus first.

God Bless you
Great post, Pawel! 👍
 
I don’t believe and never will, that any angel appeared to Muhammad. If one did, it was from the devil and certainly not from God!
Muslims don’t believe that fallen angels even exist. They think there are only “good” angels. Pretty convenient, eh?
 
No one is killing in the name of the Catholic faith TODAY. But it has over the years, and I’m not just talking about the “taking up of the cross” (crusades) of the middle east wars, but also the ones fought against the non-christians in Europe. (For an informative book on the matter see: “THE NORTHERN CRUSADES: 2ND EDITION” by Eric Christiansen
You need to be very careful when you make this comparison. One is isolated (christian), the other is a trend (islam). No moral equivalency here.
 
You say that there is evidence that Jesus did not die or rise from the dead. State your objective evidence and your sources. Christians have statements from christian historians as well as pagan historians from the first and second century. Why would so many people give up their lives for a movement that was a hoax or if there was any proof of a hoax(valid). This does not compare to the historical innacuracies of you holy book.
 
On the downside, the things found in Judaism and Christianity today which are not found in Islam are not likely at all to have come from God.
You should leave these forums. You have said very unwelcome things. Your previous posts only show you to be a troll in search of muslim converts. You will find none here.

I pray to God for the peace of the world and the lives of my future children, in the hope that not all Muslims are like you.

God have mercy on your soul. What you have said is Blasphemy.
 
Paarsurrey:

Many of us believe the Qu’ran the work of the devil, passing himself off as Gabriel, and also as God, to be recited by Mohammed and creat the great Anti-Christian church of Revelation.

Many good people are duped by the devil. Many more not-so-good people as well. But it is evident that ISLAM AS A WHOLE is an institution of Evil, the work of Satan/Shaitan.

It is a perversion of the Gnsotic heresey of Christianity into an even worse, more bizzare, submission-alone centered gnostic faith.

The central tenets of Islam in relation to Christ are the very same ones condemned by the fathers of the Christian Church.
 
No one is killing in the name of the Catholic faith TODAY. But it has over the years, and I’m not just talking about the “taking up of the cross” (crusades) of the middle east wars, but also the ones fought against the non-christians in Europe. (For an informative book on the matter see: “THE NORTHERN CRUSADES: 2ND EDITION” by Eric Christiansen
Initially,it was the Christians who were persecuted as soon as they started their Church.O.K.,they have done their share of killing since then.However,there was a time in history when it was thought that people had to be forced to do things by the government of the day.
We have learned that that was the wrong approach.Islamists are still in the Middle Ages.The Communist Government in China adopts the same compulsory attitude as the Islamists.They will only have credibility with me when human rights with them becomes a two-way street.That is,if i go to their country i expect the same human rights as their people expect on arriving on our shores.A while back,a fair percentage of Asians said in a UK Survey that they would like Sharia Law introduced in my country.
I’m not usually against immigration,because a lot of us cannot go too far back in our Family Tree without discovering that we came from immigrant stock,and it was for economic reasons,not
persecution.However,i am chary about the Sharia Law brigade.
I sometimes wonder if they get a sexual kick out of giving or receiving a good flogging.It’s even a spectator sport in some places.
 
You say that there is evidence that Jesus did not die or rise from the dead. State your objective evidence and your sources. Christians have statements from christian historians as well as pagan historians from the first and second century. Why would so many people give up their lives for a movement that was a hoax or if there was any proof of a hoax(valid). This does not compare to the historical innacuracies of you holy book.
Hi
Without having unnecessarily feelings of conversion, please read the book ‘Jesus in India’:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
You would enjoy a lot of information.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
 
Initially,it was the Christians who were persecuted as soon as they started their Church.O.K.,they have done their share of killing since then.However,there was a time in history when it was thought that people had to be forced to do things by the government of the day.
We have learned that that was the wrong approach.Islamists are still in the Middle Ages.The Communist Government in China adopts the same compulsory attitude as the Islamists.They will only have credibility with me when human rights with them becomes a two-way street.That is,if i go to their country i expect the same human rights as their people expect on arriving on our shores.A while back,a fair percentage of Asians said in a UK Survey that they would like Sharia Law introduced in my country.
I’m not usually against immigration,because a lot of us cannot go too far back in our Family Tree without discovering that we came from immigrant stock,and it was for economic reasons,not
persecution.However,i am chary about the Sharia Law brigade.
I sometimes wonder if they get a sexual kick out of giving or receiving a good flogging.It’s even a spectator sport in some places.
I agree. 👍
 
Hi
Without having unnecessarily feelings of conversion, please read the book ‘Jesus in India’:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
You would enjoy a lot of information.
Thanks

paarsurrey
I don’t mind reading the books you recommend,if i felt confident that you would be prepared to read books that we recommend.If you refuse to read books by catholic authors,it suggests that you think that we are liars who would just lead you astray.
 
Yes there are girls even today who are married off that young and have babies. Most of them suffer horrific physical problems because of it. I’ll have to look for a study I found about what is happening to girls in places like Pakistan and Indonesia these days where they are still married off as almost babies. It will break your heart, especially if you have a daughter and actually care about her. Just because parents might have approved of a marriage, even in the 21st century does not mean anything. Some parents are SOBs who could care less about their children. This is why society at large needs to have laws to protect children… yes even to protect them from parents some times.

I can look back in history at Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha and say that what he did was wrong. But in his time, some people did that. If it stays in that time of history then fine.

But I have discussed this topic with many Muslims. Most Muslims have told me that since Muhammad did it, obviously God condones child brides, hence it is allowable even today. I know a few Muslim who were born here in the USA and converted to Islam as young adults. They want to see the age of consent here in the USA rolled back to younger ages…as young as 9 years old.

The age of marital consent for girls in Iran was 9 years old, based on the live of Muhammad, until about 5 years ago. They only changed the law because of international pressure but they left in a loop hole that still allows young girls to be married off if the courts/clerics and the girls father agree. So basically the law never changed. It just looks good on paper. Child marriages are still common in many places world wide, even where they are supposedly outlawed. And the problem is that with many Muslims is that they believe it to be just fine because of the marriage of Muhammad to Aisha.

As for early marriage in the Talmud, etc. By the time of Jesus, the Jewish law was that a marriage could not be consummated until the girl was about 14 years old. They could not be engaged until the age of 12.5. Then the engagement lasted a year. So the earliest a marriage could take place was t 13.5. Then after the marriage the girl lived with her parents for the next year while the couple ‘dated’ and got to know each other. She did not move into her husband’s home and consummate the marriage until she was 14.5. While that is young by today’s standards, it’s a whole lot older then 9 years old. The average life span in those days was something like 25 or 30 year old.

These laws had been in place for hundreds of years, they were the laws of the Jews and the Christians of that time. It was the Arab tribes who were still doing many of the things like marrying children, burying girls alive, etc.

I would have less of a problem with the marriage of Muhammad to Aisha if I had not found that most Muslims I’ve spoken to on the topic have no problem with child marriages specifically because of the example of Muhammad.
So by this estimation, if Muhammad had said that incest was “halal”, Muslims would consider it okay, since their moral values are judged by what Muhammad considered “halal” or “haram” even if it didn’t make any sense!

Vickie
 
paarsurrey may like to justify honour killings.
A link below:-
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/4407728.stm
Hi
I won’t justify any honour killings, that is a cruelty being done by tribal customs, which must be stopped, it has no concern with Muhammad/Islam/Quran in any way.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
 
To all who are denigrating Sharia law, remember that if Islam does indeed turn out to be the Truth, then conditions in the Hereafter for the unbeliever will most certainly be a great deal more unbearable for them than living under Sharia law in this world.

With a bit of luck, those who do not complain about Sharia law in this world might get a chance in the Hereafter to negotiate for a cooler spot in Hell.
 
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