Muslim Inferiority Complex?

[PerryJ]

Which book did you read about Muhammad to know how he lived?

I have read several. I can get titles and authors when I get home. They are secular historians.

Are you stating that you do not believe he was a conqueror or that he had people assassinated? Do you not believe that he conquered Mecca violently?

 

[ralphinal]

All translations lose something, and translations are the work of men. Even when it comes to the Qur’an, there is no divine authoritative translation.

I understand that. My point is that the message should not change based on the language. Yes, some of the imagery may be lost, but the message should not contain nuances that only exist in one tongue.

Forbidden? No I don’t think forbidden is the right word…

With the exception of Aishah, all his wives were either widows or divorced before marrying him. They weren’t supposed to marry after him, but I don’t know the specifics, sorry. I don’t think he forbade it exactly, but to be honest I’m not entirely sure.

Thanks. I like discussing with you because you tend to stay on topic and admit when you are not sure. At least I know I can trust your answers.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I have read several. I can get titles and authors when I get home. They are secular historians.

Are you stating that you do not believe he was a conqueror or that he had people assassinated? Do you not believe that he conquered Mecca violently?

I do not believe that he “conquered Mecca violently.” Not at all.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I understand that. My point is that the message should not change based on the language. Yes, some of the imagery may be lost, but the message should not contain nuances that only exist in one tongue.

Actually, I believe that this is the case with every scripture, including the Torah, including the Psalms, and every text of the Bible. Translating alters the nuances, and thus hinders people from truly understanding it.

Thanks. I like discussing with you because you tend to stay on topic and admit when you are not sure. At least I know I can trust your answers.

Heh, thanks.

 

[inJESUS]

Forbidden? No I don’t think forbidden is the right word…

With the exception of Aishah, all his wives were either widows or divorced before marrying him. They weren’t supposed to marry after him, but I don’t know the specifics, sorry. I don’t think he forbade it exactly, but to be honest I’m not entirely sure.

And it is not (right) for you that you should **annoy **Allah’s Messenger, nor that you should ever marry his wives after him (his death). Verily! With Allah that shall be an enormity. S. 33:53

you are correct that the word “forbidden” is not used but a stronger language of threats in place.It is said to have been revealed concerning a man who wanted to marry one of the wives of muhammad after he died, he was his compagnion Talha if i recall well.

 

[dzheremi]

Wow. That seems pretty self-serving…and I’m really trying to come up with a generous way to interpret it! How else would it be viewed? Is the Muslim answer “Allah decreed it, so let’s not discuss it” to this as well? I don’t mean that to sound so accusatorial…I am really asking out of genuine curiousity, I just don’t know how to phrase it better, and I don’t want to pretend like I’m not seeing a pattern to the answers given, either.

This is the point I was trying to get at some pages ago when I asked what it is that Islam allows Muslims to do. It seems like that list grows shorter and shorter every time a new question comes up. And in this case the prohibition is so specific that a non-Muslim can’t help but wonder who is doing whose work with these guidelines.

 

[inJESUS]

Wow. That seems pretty self-serving…and I’m really trying to come up with a generous way to interpret it!

i tried before and came to your solution. The bible is clear that after death a woman can re-marry and no prophet was given any such “privilege”.

 

[Sam_777]

Like “Guide us to the straight path, the path of those whom You have favored, not of those who have incurred Your wrath, nor of those who have gone astray” has become, “Guide us to the Straight Way, the way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).” Contemporary political disputes also pollute the translation, marring what should be a reflection of timeless religion. Whereas the Qur’an reports Moses’s address to the Israelites as “O my people! Enter the Holy Land that God has assigned unto you,” the Saudi version twists the verse with modern politics, writing, “O my people! Enter the holy land (Palestine).”

 

[planten]

And it is not (right) for you that you should **annoy **Allah’s Messenger, nor that you should ever marry his wives after him (his death). Verily! With Allah that shall be an enormity. S. 33:53

you are correct that the word “forbidden” is not used but a stronger language of threats in place.It is said to have been revealed concerning a man who wanted to marry one of the wives of muhammad after he died, he was his compagnion Talha if i recall well.

**inJesus, There is no such thing. It is just fanciful ideas of people. The prophet is the spiritual head (father) of all believers and the wives of the prophet are the mothers of the believers. I hope that you had read that verse saying the wives of the prophet are the mothers of the believers.

Now you would not like to marry your mother? Would you?**

 

[planten]

Wow. That seems pretty self-serving…and I’m really trying to come up with a generous way to interpret it! How else would it be viewed? Is the Muslim answer “Allah decreed it, so let’s not discuss it” to this as well? I don’t mean that to sound so accusatorial…I am really asking out of genuine curiousity, I just don’t know how to phrase it better, and I don’t want to pretend like I’m not seeing a pattern to the answers given, either.

This is the point I was trying to get at some pages ago when I asked what it is that Islam allows Muslims to do. It seems like that list grows shorter and shorter every time a new question comes up. And in this case the prohibition is so specific that a non-Muslim can’t help but wonder who is doing whose work with these guidelines.

** dzhereme, I have replied to that problem to inJesus. I hope you will read that too. These are matters of faith and our liking too. The prophet is our spiritual father. His wives are our mothers. That is written in the Quran but you people are not noting that.

So it is forbidden to marry the wives of the prophet. There are so many other ladies in the world. We can marry them. Why only look for marriage to a mother?

I know you people get excited and get hot when I reply you in the same coin. You have problems with Mary and Jesus. You want Mary to be virgin even after giving birth to Jesus. Why is that? is that necessary? And then she should bear more children and still remain a virgin?

I ask why that is necessary? Is it not some inner selfish desire in your minds that it should be so? Then if you want it like that then please leave some room for the other faiths too in similar manner.**

 

[ralphinal]

Is is bad to marry Muhammed’s wife as she was like the spiritual mother but it was ok to marry the wife of a boy who was like his son?

 

[inJESUS]

**inJesus, There is no such thing. It is just fanciful ideas of people. The prophet is the spiritual head (father) of all believers and the wives of the prophet are the mothers of the believers. I hope that you had read that verse saying the wives of the prophet are the mothers of the believers.

Now you would not like to marry your mother? Would you?**

and Muhammad’s daughters are what? the sisters of believers so cannot marry as well since they are the daughters of the “mothers of believers”?

Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever All Aware of everything. S. 33:37-40

Narrated Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha’s hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said “But I am your brother.” The Prophet said, “You are my brother in Allah’s religion and His Book, but she ('Aisha) is lawful for me to marry.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18)

why didn’t he follow his own rules and call his wives “sisters in faith”? does the whole Bible contain such privilege to any man or prophet?

 

[planten]

and Muhammad’s daughters are what? the sisters of believers so cannot marry as well since they are the daughters of the “mothers of believers”?

Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever All Aware of everything. S. 33:37-40

Narrated Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha’s hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said “But I am your brother.” The Prophet said, “You are my brother in Allah’s religion and His Book, but she ('Aisha) is lawful for me to marry.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18)

why didn’t he follow his own rules and call his wives “sisters in faith”? does the whole Bible contain such privilege to any man or prophet?

**inJesus, when you come to discuss relations in that manner then we could also ask you about God being the father of Jesus and Mary is the mother. So could we also say that Mary was the wife of God. Because she is being called the mother of God too. So it is such a complicated relation. Mary is the mother of Jesus that is God. And God is the father of god i.e. Jesus.

I would rather request you to drop these investigations about the wives of the prophet. They are called the mothers of the believers. Zaid was not the son of the prophet. God has told us to beware of the false notion of unreal, assumed sons such as son of god…**

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Is is bad to marry Muhammed’s wife as she was like the spiritual mother but it was ok to marry the wife of a boy who was like his son?

when Prophet (p) was alive , choice was given to the Prophet’s wives (pbut) if they want the wealth of this world & want to end the relationship with Prophet . All said no .

Verse from Holy Quran :

O Prophet! say to your wives: If you desire this world’s life and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing

And if you desire Allah and His Apostle and the latter abode, then surely Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a mighty reward. [33: 28-29]

If they did not want to enjoy the special status of being the respected wives of the last Prophet & as Mothers of the believers , they could easily selected the option that was proposed to them by God.

Zaid was a slave , he had no blood relationship with the Prophet. Prophet himself arranged his marriage with his own cousin . Later when Zaid divorced his wife , Prophet married the divorced wife of his once slaved man . Muslim men are not allowed to marry any woman whom their father , grand father married once. Adopted son is not like the real son. He has no right in inheritance of his adopted father unless mentioned in will. He must use his real father’s name & will get his due share in property from him .

 

[ralphinal]

Salaam/peace

when Prophet (p) was alive , choice was given to the Prophet’s wives (pbut) if they want the wealth of this world & want to end the relationship with Prophet . All said no .

Verse from Holy Quran :

O Prophet! say to your wives: If you desire this world’s life and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing

And if you desire Allah and His Apostle and the latter abode, then surely Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a mighty reward. [33: 28-29]

If they did not want to enjoy the special status of being the respected wives of the last Prophet & as Mothers of the believers , they could easily selected the option that was proposed to them by God.

Zaid was a slave , he had no blood relationship with the Prophet. Prophet himself arranged his marriage with his own cousin . Later when Zaid divorced his wife , Prophet married the divorced wife of his once slaved man . Muslim men are not allowed to marry any woman whom their father , grand father married once. Adopted son is not like the real son. He has no right in inheritance of his adopted father unless mentioned in will. He must use his real father’s name & will get his due share in property from him .

So, what Muhammed want, Muhammed get.

I guess that he was incapable of love for his "slave.’ This should show you guys that Allah does not love you slaves any more than Muhammed did his own.

 

[inJESUS]

inJesus, when you come to discuss relations in that manner then we could also ask you about God being the father of Jesus and Mary is the mother. So could we also say that Mary was the wife of God. Because she is being called the mother of God too. So it is such a complicated relation. Mary is the mother of Jesus that is God. And God is the father of god i.e. Jesus.

totally flawed and irrelevant.

I would rather request you to drop these investigations about the wives of the prophet.

 

[Sam_777]

he was called son of Muhammad until muhammad decided to marry his wife. Besides, a man who raised/adopted/fostered someone as a son should normally have a fatherly love for him and his wife yet among all the women Muhammad could have he chose the woman who was married to the one he considered a son and who was supposed to be like a daughter as well and he needed a revelation to defend himself

:aok:

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

…was supposed to be like a daughter

 

[inJESUS]

She was cousin of the Prophet (p) .

yes i know.

 

[ralphinal]

Please tell me that she wasn’t a close relative…