Muslim Men Spying in Catholic Churches

[AlanF]

I think I may be mistaking the meaning of a couple things which have been said (so easy to do in forums) but just in case…I take exception to Catholics who have a ho hum attitude about the Blessed Sacrament. During the liturgy the precious body and blood are treated with utmost respect, for a reason. To not really mind what happens to it after it leaves the priests hands is to encourage non-Catholics to think of it as just a piece of bread. Hope I was misreading.
Peace all.

Agreed.

So many Catholics these day show a great complacency and/or don’t seem to realise that Jesus Christ is not just present in the Host, the Host is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, the Host actually is Christ. Therefore, a desecration of the Sacred Host is a desecration of Christ Himself. How Catholics can be not bothered by this is beyond me, even though Christ is “big enough to take care of Himself.” Ofcourse, while that’s true and Christ cannot be diminished or killed, it’s not the point. The Sacred Host is the most sacred thing on Earth, Christ, and to desecrate it (or Him) is like punching Christ in an apparition, or scourging Him at the pillar. It certainly is a ho-hum attitude to say one is not to be bothered by this.

As catholics we must make reparation.

Act of Reparation to the Most Blessed Sacrament

With that most profound respect
which divine Faith inspires,
O my God and Saviour Jesus Christ,
true God and true man,
I adore Thee,
and with my whole heart I love Thee,
hidden in the most august Sacrament of the Altar,
in reparation of all the irreverences,
profanations, and sacrileges, that I,
to my shame, may have until now committed,
as also for all those
that have been committed against Thee,
or that may be ever committed for the time to come.
I offer to Thee,
therefore, O my God,
my humble adoration, not indeed,
such as Thou art worthy of,
nor such as I owe Thee,
but such, at least,
as I am capable of offerings;
and I wish that I could love Thee
with the most perfect love
of which rational creatures are capable.
In the meantime,
I desire to adore Thee now and always,
not only for those Catholics
who do not adore or love Thee,
but also so supply the defect,
and for the conversion of all heretics,
schismatics, lebertines,
atheists, blasphemers,
sorcerers, Mahomedans,
Jews, and idolaters.
Ah! yes, my Jesus,
mayest Thou be known,
adored, and loved by all
and may thanks be continually given to Thee
in the most holy and august Sacrament!

 

[Hadi]

johnshark,

in the 12th century,two Christians attempted to dig and desecrate the grave of the prophet,they disguised as Muslims…

 

[johnshark]

johnshark,

in the 12th century,two Christians attempted to dig and desecrate the grave of the prophet,they disguised as Muslims…

uh, that was 800 years ago.

 

[Hadi]

uh, that was 800 years ago.

the point is,both sides have been guilty…

but to post a topic just to make people suspicious and afraid of me …why ? why am I being put on trial everyday for the crimes of my fellow Muslims…why reminding me of these crimes everyday ,as if I should or shouldn’t do something…why ?

 

[johnshark]

the point is,both sides have been guilty…

but to post a topic just to make people suspicious and afraid of me …why ? why am I being put on trial everyday for the crimes of my fellow Muslims…why reminding me of these crimes everyday ,as if I should or shouldn’t do something…why ?

remove muslims and replace it with christians and you will see how we as christians feel

 

[katy_kt]

the point is,both sides have been guilty…

but to post a topic just to make people suspicious and afraid of me …why ? why am I being put on trial everyday for the crimes of my fellow Muslims…why reminding me of these crimes everyday ,as if I should or shouldn’t do something…why ?

It is wrongful for someone one to be judged by someone else. But could you state if those Muslim’s actions were wrong. In your 3 or 4 posts, all of them have been the ‘you do the same’ argument.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

but to post a topic just to make people suspicious and afraid of me …why ? why am I being put on trial everyday for the crimes of my fellow Muslims…why reminding me of these crimes everyday ,as if I should or shouldn’t do something…why ?

Actually no one mentioned you or said anything like, “Boy, this angers me. I wanna beat something up. Hey, look, a Muslim poster, let’s go get her!” If you had made a simple post saying, “Wow!” or “That’s terrible,” I doubt people would’ve bothered you. If they did, they were most likely trolls in the first place. In fact from my previous experience at other forums, if you had come out and said, “Yes this is bad, these guys are breaking the rules of Islam,” people would have been impressed. In my Muslim days when I criticized terrorism or cruel acts by Muslims, I had people actually tell me that I had improved their outlook on Islam.

Now I do agree that the actions of a handful don’t warrant a response against an entire people, but I wouldn’t label this thread as bad. It was just two people who were non-Catholics who did disrespected another faith for spying purposes. If they had been Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Jewish, or any other faith, then they probably would’ve been mentioned too. The main focus was that when this is done to Christians they don’t create riots or burn down embassies. In fact when a commercial featuring a Pope Benedict bobbling head doll came out, you didn’t have Roman Catholics sending death threats to the station that aired them. Again, you could’ve resolved all this by simply condemning it, rather than pointing fingers or coming up with conspiracy theories.

 

[Hadi]

Byzantine_Wolf:
Of course, I am ashamed of these men and strongly believe that they went against Islam …Do I have to state that every time in order to clarify my position?? you have proved my point, as I said before ,people feel suspicious of me and I have to carry that guilt wherever I go…I am guilty before proven innocent…

but I think you are right,I shouldn’t have bothered replying…sorry, next time I’ll try not to engage in the incoming topics “Muslims did this” and “Muslims did that”

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Of course, I am ashamed of these men and strongly believe that they went against Islam …Do I have to state that every time in order to clarify my position?? you have proved my point, as I said before ,people feel suspicious of me and I have to carry that guilt wherever I go…I am guilty before proven innocent…

but I think you are right,I shouldn’t have bothered replying…sorry, next time I’ll try not to engage in the incoming topics “Muslims did this” and “Muslims did that”

Nooooooo that’s not what I’m saying. You should reply, I’m just saying be tactful. People respond to any kind of hostility, as I’m sure you’re aware. Respond to hate with gentleness and love, not accusations and pride. That’s all.

EDIT: Also I’ve known Muslims IRL affected emotionally by anti-Muslim prejudice, and it makes me sick. As an American Christian male, I apologize to you for that.

 

[Hadi]

as for rioting,

Muslims don’t usually riot over the death of their fellow Muslims,let alone others…let alone a local event in Malaysia of two Muslims entering a church…

maybe it’s a human nature… If I hit you,you feel hurt,but if your brother hit me,you don’t feel hurt…that’s why you see people mostly rioting over what hurt them…

but again,rioting won’t solve this problem…instead Malaysian Muslims and Christians should establish trust into common understanding that benefits their community

 

[Hadi]

I also disagree with the Malaysian authority in banning Churches from using the name Allah…and here is another confession for you Wolf ,If a member of my family become a Christian,I would be glad to build a church for them with my own hands

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I also disagree with the Malaysian authority in banning Churches from using the name Allah…and here is another confession for you Wolf ,If a member of my family become a Christian,I would be glad to build a church for them with my own hands

That’s good, that’s how family should be.

In some ways you’re perhaps more tolerant than my secular family, but that’s another discussion for another time.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

What does this mean?:
Malaysia Today:

They were also investigating whether the word ‘Allah’ was being used in church services.

I don’t understand if these “reporters” desired that ‘Allah’ was in lieu of the Malaysian word for ‘God’ or would have been outraged. The paper doesn’t expound upon this and we’re left reading minds.

Do these men believe Islam has a monopoly on the word or do they wish for everyone in Malaysia, Muslim or not, to refer to their monotheistic, Abrahamic god as ‘Allah’?

Anyone from Malaysia or maybe one of our Muslim posters could shed some light on this for me? I’ve always been under the impression that ‘Allah’ is simply Arabic for ‘God’. I’m having trouble understanding why these men would make it a point to listen for the utterance.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Disregard my previous post. That’s what I get for not bothering to read the rest of the thread.

So it’s actually illegal in Malaysia for non-Muslims to use ‘Allah’? What’s the rationale behind this?

 

[4Squarebaby]

Disregard my previous post. That’s what I get for not bothering to read the rest of the thread.

So it’s actually illegal in Malaysia for non-Muslims to use ‘Allah’? What’s the rationale behind this?

That you will lead a Muslim from what Islam sees as the true path to Allah/God through a trick of using language.

In effect that a Muslim can be in any religious body which claims one god, but is being fooled as God’s true presence is not fully with that local body of polytheist.

Since to the Malaysian government and other governments where it against the law to aid someone in conversion away from Islam using “Allah”. Instead of the other names we use for God is seen as false advertising.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The fact that these men took Eucharist and even spit it out later doesn’t really bother me. Of course I don’t support sacrilege… but Jesus can take care of Himself.

Nothing those men did harms Jesus, or the Church, or any of us. God, or Allah, will sort it out later.

Unlike Muslims who riot in the street if the name Muhammad is printed in a political cartoon. I always feel like they have an inferiority complex. They must think their god and their prophet are REALLY weak if they have to overreact like that.

Let them come. Let them look. Even if they start killing people, in the end they have not harmed ANY of us, nor Jesus! I don’t want to be martyred, but at least I would have died for something that was really worth it!

As for Christians spying on mosques, well, I don’t know about that. But I do know alot of our soldiers, Christian and otherwise, have been killed by snipers in mosques, and by bombs stored in mosques. We SHOULD be spying on mosques, and more often! International rules of war allow the destruction of a place of worship if it is used as an armory or in any way to attack enemy soldiers.

If they want to undermine their religion, by using underhand methods & trampling on the convictions of others - let them. It saves Catholics the effort of arguing against the sort of Islam that allows its followers to dothat​

What no Christian of any kind must do, is fight fire with fire, crime with crime, evil with evil. That leads only to more evil.

 

[Fitz]

the point is,both sides have been guilty…

but to post a topic just to make people suspicious and afraid of me …why ? why am I being put on trial everyday for the crimes of my fellow Muslims…why reminding me of these crimes everyday ,as if I should or shouldn’t do something…why ?

You need to be part of the Muslims that speak out against those that aim to kill. We have to be willing to speak out against crime and injustice no matter where we see it. I know it must be difficult, but it is the position you are in now. I hope that things do change for the better in the future.

 

[Hadi]

You need to be part of the Muslims that speak out against those that aim to kill. We have to be willing to speak out against crime and injustice no matter where we see it. I know it must be difficult, but it is the position you are in now. I hope that things do change for the better in the future.

Thank you…but there are Christians who no matter what you do,they say “oh no ,you are following a fake Islam ,while those few are following the True Islam”

And there is something in Islamic Figh called “Fard Ain” and “Fard Kefayh”. the first term means obligatory on every Muslim , while the latter means if some Muslims do the obligation ,the obligation on the rest of the Muslims is not required but if no one does the obligation ,everyone is guilty.

so the action of speaking out against the crimes is Fard Kefayh…so for this incident,a group of Malaysian Muslims (scholars or leaders) should speak out against it in order to prevent it from happening again…unless you want me personally to travel to Malaysia and do the job.

 

[planten]

It is wrongful for someone one to be judged by someone else. But could you state if those Muslim’s actions were wrong. In your 3 or 4 posts, all of them have been the ‘you do the same’ argument.

** It was bad of those Muslims. The best they could do was to request and take permission to enter the church. Church is a place of worship, not a place for espoinage (jaasoosi).

In Islam it is allowed to seek by honest feelings and by being awake (Tahassus= Al Quran 12:87). It is not allowed to seek by spying (Tajassus).

It only goes to prove that the Muslim religeous leaders do not understand the basics of Islam. That is how they have misled the main body of Muslims today, by undulging them in religeous wars (Jihad.) etc. That was totally wrong. There was no need to fight for religion now. The Muslims had been advised to keep away from such bad ideas of jihad with weapons. But they did not listen. The result is quite apparant and bad.

I know those people who were preaching (advocating) Jihad to the Muslims, and I know those who were teaching against Jihad. Due to such bad teachings about fighting (killing) the peaceful non-Muslims, and due to calling the peaceful non-Muslims as kafirs, the Muslims have sinned. They have to suffer.

I have been to few churches, specially, in Notre Dame in Paris (Church of Our Lady), I went in with family and out of love and respect for the Mother Mary, we lit candles there and came out. No harm to me and no harm to the church people. But it was a good lesson to my children to LOve Mary forever.

I am still in the process of reading all the posts of this thread.**

 

[planten]

What does this mean?:

I don’t understand if these “reporters” desired that ‘Allah’ was in lieu of the Malaysian word for ‘God’ or would have been outraged. The paper doesn’t expound upon this and we’re left reading minds.

Do these men believe Islam has a monopoly on the word or do they wish for everyone in Malaysia, Muslim or not, to refer to their monotheistic, Abrahamic god as ‘Allah’?

Anyone from Malaysia or maybe one of our Muslim posters could shed some light on this for me? I’ve always been under the impression that ‘Allah’ is simply Arabic for ‘God’. I’m having trouble understanding why these men would make it a point to listen for the utterance.

**It is possible that some narrow minded Muslim leaders are keeping the use of the word “Allah” specifically for themselves and do not allow the non-Muslims o use that name of God. If they did,it may bring a case of blasphemy on them.

It is just possible. There are such people amongst Muslims. But real answer is not known why they looking for the word Allah in the church.

Hadi has cleared his position very well. Al hamdu Lillah.**