Muslim prostration in prayer taken from Christians

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inJESUS said:
not to nit-pick but why did Muhammad claim no two religions shall exist in Arabia ?
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Just like you have a master copy of your program on a separate CD than when it is installed on your hard drive. Other programs can conflict with it in the hard drive. However it is good to have a separate copy that is not mixed with other possibly conflicting programs.
 
meedo said:
Just like you have a master copy of your program on a separate CD than when it is installed on your hard drive. Other programs can conflict with it in the hard drive. However it is good to have a separate copy that is not mixed with other possibly conflicting programs.
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i still don’t get it. What do you think will happen if everyone applied this theory?
 
inJESUS said:
i still don’t get it. What do you think will happen if everyone applied this theory?
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Not everybody will apply this theory . This theory was a license from God to the people whom he chose to fullfill teh task at the time he chose. The revelation of the Quran and the mergence of the latest nation of believers came for a purpose . To provide for teh world what the past peopel of scriptures couldnt provide. Proper belief in God. God doesnt want this revelation to become corrupted by the same ideas that he sent this revelation to correct . So he commanded a sphere where it will be the land of this revelation alone.
 
meedo said:
Not everybody will apply this theory . This theory was a license from God to the people whom he chose to fullfill teh task at the time he chose. The revelation of the Quran and the mergence of the latest nation of believers came for a purpose . To provide for teh world what the past peopel of scriptures couldnt provide. Proper belief in God. God doesnt want this revelation to become corrupted by the same ideas that he sent this revelation to correct . So he commanded a sphere where it will be the land of this revelation alone.
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is that it? what about these people living in this sphere getting out of it and getting “corrupt”? what about people going to work there?what about books and tv and internet and mobile phones?what about other islamic lands?

Meedo, if the rest of humanity were to apply your theory politically-wise, Muslims in the US, Canada and Europe will be in serious trouble. This is Nazism. You do not have the right to expel others because they do not believe in what you believe, and then go to their lands and corrupt their culture and beliefs all in the name of God. You cannot say i have no problem living among Jews when your prophet wanted to expel them . People hate Islam for exactly what you are saying. A man who said no 2 religions will exist in Arabia will not be accepted as a prophet, a political leader could be, an arab nationalist could be, a prototype of Hitler yes, but a prophet and a mercy to humanity? hardly.
 
inJESUS said:
is that it? what about these people living in this sphere getting out of it and getting “corrupt”? what about people going to work there?what about books and tv and internet and mobile phones?what about other islamic lands?

are you talking about modern day saudi or are you talking about historical events? i have no problem with påeople fulfiling their workcontracts and enjoying working in saudi . But i do not believe that in case of Saudi arabea it is of islamic principles to grant them citizenship. As for other islamic lands ofcourse people of other faiths can and do live their and worship as per their faith.

Meedo, if the rest of humanity were to apply your theory politically-wise, Muslims in the US, Canada and Europe will be in serious trouble. This is Nazism. You do not have the right to expel others because they do not believe in what you believe, and then go to their lands and corrupt their culture and beliefs all in the name of God.

Muslims dodnt take the world as their saudi . They just had saudi as a place for just islam . Just like the vatican is a place for Christians. And no this is not nazism . we are not commiting masss holocausts against anybody

You cannot say i have no problem living among Jews when your prophet wanted to expel them. People hate Islam for exactly what you are saying. A man who said no 2 religions will exist in Arabia will not be accepted as a prophet, a political leader could be, an arab nationalist could be, a prototype of Hitler yes, but a prophet and a mercy to humanity? hardly.
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saudi arabea has nothing to do with Non zionist jews they can come o be my neighbours in Egypt or any other country. saudi is not made for islam because islam hates Jews, it is made for islam because Islam had to have its natural growth without the mixup of the past dogmas that God has sent this latest revelation to correct. Besides most of jews that were expelled had a history of treaty breaking , the jews of yemen forexample were not expelled. even though they were always under muslim rule. And as for your comments about bieng accepted as a prophet, God himself in teh torah ( not a prophet but God himself) has commanded very harsh campains against non believers when he assigned the task of faith to the people of israel. Still they were the people of god and still their prophets were their prophets , don’t you feel a bit strange elling me this while there is very harsh sentences on non believers in teh Torah? much much much more harsher that muslims could have ever done? It is your Holy book after all and this is your God.

Is your God a nazi?

see u tommorow
 
are you talking about modern day saudi or are you talking about historical events? i have no problem with påeople fulfiling their workcontracts and enjoying working in saudi . But i do not believe that in case of Saudi arabea it is of islamic principles to grant them citizenship.
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no am asking about the wisdom behind the prohibition of other reliogions except Islam in Arabia as if land alone is the barrier against corruption. There are Saudis who converted to Christianity even though christians do not have citizenships, that’s if i understood well what you wrote.
And no this is not nazism . we are not commiting masss holocausts against anybody
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Nazism is an ideology.
Is your God a nazi?
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where did God say no 2 religions are to exist in x or y country? where did God ask people to kill humans so that they witness there is no deity but Him and Moses is His prophet?
where did God ask people to kill in order to spread Judaism or Christianity? which prophet expelled humans because only Judaism or Christianity is to exist in a specific land?
see u tommorow
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inchallah:)
 
meedo said:
saudi arabea has nothing to do with Non zionist jews they can come o be my neighbours in Egypt or any other country. saudi is not made for islam because islam hates Jews, it is made for islam because Islam had to have its natural growth without the mixup of the past dogmas that God has sent this latest revelation to correct. Besides most of jews that were expelled had a history of treaty breaking , the jews of yemen forexample were not expelled. even though they were always under muslim rule. And as for your comments about bieng accepted as a prophet, God himself in teh torah ( not a prophet but God himself) has commanded very harsh campains against non believers when he assigned the task of faith to the people of israel. Still they were the people of god and still their prophets were their prophets , don’t you feel a bit strange elling me this while there is very harsh sentences on non believers in teh Torah? much much much more harsher that muslims could have ever done? It is your Holy book after all and this is your God.

Is your God a nazi?

see u tommorow
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Why don’t you just say the simple truth that Islam is a religion that does not allow other religions to exist, period? That way we can move to the next level.
 
rien said:
Philip Jenkins has a new book out titled the Lost History of Christianity. it has to do with the disappearance of Christianity from Africa, the Middle East and the East.

In a great interview he gave to CWR he talks about no one talking about the “theology of extinction”. How religions disappear as his book is about.

In any case things Muslims got from Chritians according to Jenkins:

Prostration in prayer; prayer a certain number of times/day; almsgiving; fasting, pilgrimage; a declaration of faith.

Interesting as some Catholic schools are teaching children to pray in a prostate position and this has been called out by some traditionalists as Islam creeping into Catholocism.

But according to Jenkins this originated with Chritians and Muslims were slow to embrace it - finding it degrading.

I recall reading about some Oriental Chritians who to this day pray exactly like Muslims - prostating themselves. Giving credence to the claim this is a long abandoned Christian practice.

BTW, some of the Eastern and Oriental churches sit men on one side and women on the other during services. Like Muslims today. So it is not a stretch to think that too may have been the original Chritian practice.

One thing - that the first Chritians prayed a specific number of times/day - like the Muslims pray 5 times/day today. Does anyone have any info on this? I have not bought the book yet and I don’t know if Jenkins goes into that but I’d like more details.
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I think it was taken from Syriac Christianity, which preserved some very archaic features. On the face of it, knowledge by Mohammed of the Roman sort of Christianity seems unlikely.​

Also, organized fast - as in Lent - was the imspiration for Ramadan says Jenkins.

It is interesting that Christians have basically given up all these ancient practices. Even fasting is today sort of an aftethought at best having been jettisoned in its more organized form by Vatican 2 and earlier by the Reformers.

I’d add that Muslims pray facing Mecca. Early Christians prayed facing East or to Jerusalem and even built their churches oriented in a certain direction up until recent centuries when that practice has been totally abandoned.
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Traditionalism is not really traditional at all - it’s a form of yearning for the non-existent good old days of one’s grandparents or of their parents; it does not go back further, except for selecting those bits of the past it finds useful. It has very little real care for the Catholic Tradition as a whole, or for the Christian Tradition as a whole.​

 
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Salaam/peace
emarc said:
…why do muslims judge the jews? .
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Muslims hate the Zionists , not the ordinary Jews . More than 200 kids are murdered in Gaza , killing is still going on . How one can wonder why Muslims don’t love the Zionists ? Anyway , this is off topic here.
 
rien said:
Philip Jenkins has a new book out titled the Lost History of Christianity. it has to do with the disappearance of Christianity from Africa, the Middle East and the East.

In a great interview he gave to CWR he talks about no one talking about the “theology of extinction”. How religions disappear as his book is about.

In any case things Muslims got from Chritians according to Jenkins:

Prostration in prayer; prayer a certain number of times/day; almsgiving; fasting, pilgrimage; a declaration of faith.

Interesting as some Catholic schools are teaching children to pray in a prostate position and this has been called out by some traditionalists as Islam creeping into Catholocism.

But according to Jenkins this originated with Chritians and Muslims were slow to embrace it - finding it degrading.

I recall reading about some Oriental Chritians who to this day pray exactly like Muslims - prostating themselves. Giving credence to the claim this is a long abandoned Christian practice.

BTW, some of the Eastern and Oriental churches sit men on one side and women on the other during services. Like Muslims today. So it is not a stretch to think that too may have been the original Chritian practice.

One thing - that the first Chritians prayed a specific number of times/day - like the Muslims pray 5 times/day today. Does anyone have any info on this? I have not bought the book yet and I don’t know if Jenkins goes into that but I’d like more details.

Also, organized fast - as in Lent - was the imspiration for Ramadan says Jenkins.

It is interesting that Christians have basically given up all these ancient practices. Even fasting is today sort of an aftethought at best having been jettisoned in its more organized form by Vatican 2 and earlier by the Reformers.

I’d add that Muslims pray facing Mecca. Early Christians prayed facing East or to Jerusalem and even built their churches oriented in a certain direction up until recent centuries when that practice has been totally abandoned.
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Awesome post! A Byzantine friend of mine said they still prostrate like the Muslims, and I think he may have mentioned that the Christians had it first, but I’m not sure. That’s really interesting. Mohammed met up with heterodox Christians and took what he liked from them and made up the rest. Too bad Mohammed didn’t meet up with some orthodox Catholics and decide to become Catholic and take a bunch of people with him. Then we’d have like half the world as Christians!
 
Thanks for confirming what I suspected for a long time!

Philip Jenkins is AWESOME.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

** On the face of it, knowledge by Mohammed of the Roman sort of Christianity seems unlikely** Muhammad’s knowledge was limited by what he encountered and Roman sort of Christianity was not dominant in Arabia,neither orthodox Eastern Christianity; it was Gnosticism and Ebionism that were spread in Arabia.​

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Salaam/peace

Prostration in Prayers


Why do Muslims prostrate in their prayers to God? What does such an act indicate?

Isn’t it humiliating to put your forehead on the ground?

Did any of the earlier prophets before Prophet Muhammad (p) do that?

Watch this short movie to know the significance of prostration for Muslims

youtube.com/watch?v=1ypWz5uP-oI

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1231760482315&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam%2FDIELayout
 
Muslim_Woman said:
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

Prostration in Prayers

HugeDomains.com

Why do Muslims prostrate in their prayers to God? What does such an act indicate?

Isn’t it humiliating to put your forehead on the ground?

Did any of the earlier prophets before Prophet Muhammad (p) do that?

Watch this short movie to know the significance of prostration for Muslims

youtube.com/watch?v=1ypWz5uP-oI

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1231760482315&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam%2FDIELayout
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One can only accept the fact that prostration in prayer was done by Christians and Jews before Muhammad came to be.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

Muslims hate the Zionists , not the ordinary Jews . More than 200 kids are murdered in Gaza , killing is still going on . How one can wonder why Muslims don’t love the Zionists ? Anyway , this is off topic here.
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Over half of the world Jewry have bought into Zionism. Many of them are ordinary Jews. In fact, a Jews who does not have affection for Israel is a little out of the ordinary.

It is good for the sake of clarity to understand this. Muslims hate the vast majority of Jews. They hate the state of Israel, which is a home to over half of the world’s jews, and they hate Jews that support Israel from outside of the country too.

A blessed few Muslims contradict this hatred. But for the sake of clarity, I think that Muslim woman speaks for what her religion is all about. This hatred defines Islam more than prostrate praying ever does.
 
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