Muslim to Catholic?

[Sister_Amy]

Well, you have no idea what background I’m from and I don’t know what background you are from. Good luck with your studies- studying is not nearly the same as actually living it though.

You’re right, I don’t have a clue what background you’re from, but I’m fairly certain it’s not the same as mine. Moreover, it’s not fair of you to suggest that I’m not “living” Islam, because I am now and have been for years. To say I’m “studying” is only to let you know that I’m not just living but also living it with comprehension of meaning.

 

[KathleenGee]

Sr Amy,

Christ spoke in parables…causing us to look deep within ourselves to see who we are, where we are going…and what we need to do to follow Christ.

 

[arabic_catholic]

Having gone the other way, I found the contradictions in Christianity rather than Islam. In any faith you find contradictions between how people act and what they’re taught, but to me, the teachings of Islam seem to be sound while Christianity just raised more unanswered questions that only Islam could answer. For me, at least.

And I’ve been studying Islam pretty deeply for a while and have a different take on it than you–maybe because I’m from a different background.

sister amy

in quran the virgin mary was called

maryam bint imran

or mary the daughter of amram

And [the example of] Mary, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity(in arabic diffrent word not chastity), so We blew into [her garment] through Our angel(by the way in arabic it was written by our spirit not angel), and she believed in the words of her Lord and His scriptures and was of the devoutly obedient.

66:12

yes amram was the fahter of mary

or Miriam who is the sister of moses and she was not the holy virgin mary !!

another one in 26:6

And establish them in the land and show Pharaoh and [his minister] Haman and their soldiers through them that which they had feared.

haman actually was minster in the persian empire who was born centuries after moses

so how can allah (god) make such big historical mistakes and dont know the diffrent between the father of virgin mary and the father of miriam the sister of moses

since i was young i was told that the quran does not make any mistake because it came stright from angel gebrial himself (and that is another story)

 

[elwill]

arabic catholic , you didn’t answered my question

do you think that when a christians ask forgivness for an athiest who reject jesus and reject christianity , may God accept thier prayer ? if it yes then can i say that christ not the only way for salvation
if the answer is no , then your prayer not exceed the meaning of respect

tell me what is the view of christianity you understand about this point .

sister amy

in quran the virgin mary was called

maryam bint imran

or mary the daughter of amram

And [the example of] Mary, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity(in arabic diffrent word not chastity), so We blew into [her garment] through Our angel(by the way in arabic it was written by our spirit not angel), and she believed in the words of her Lord and His scriptures and was of the devoutly obedient.

66:12

yes amram was the fahter of mary

or Miriam the sister of moses and she was not the holy virgin mary !!

i didn’t understood the contradictions you refers to
but it’s clear that talking about virgin mary

another one in 26:6

And establish them in the land and show Pharaoh and [his minister] Haman and their soldiers through them that which they had feared.

haman actually was minster in the persian empire who was born centuries after moses

so how can allah (god) make such big historical mistakes and dont know the diffrent between the father of virgin mary and the father of miriam the sister of moses

since i was young i was told that the quran does not make any mistake because it came stright from angel gebrial himself (and that is another story)

Haman isn’t a name for a man , it’s a name of rank or position according to the language of ancient egypt
it was called for the minister of construction
exactly as pharoh isn’t a name of person , it’s a name of position

 

[Sister_Amy]

sister amy

in quran the virgin mary was called

maryam bint imran

or mary the daughter of amram

And [the example of] Mary, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity(in arabic diffrent word not chastity), so We blew into [her garment] through Our angel(by the way in arabic it was written by our spirit not angel), and she believed in the words of her Lord and His scriptures and was of the devoutly obedient.

66:12

yes amram was the fahter of mary

or Miriam who is the sister of moses and she was not the holy virgin mary !!

another one in 26:6

And establish them in the land and show Pharaoh and [his minister] Haman and their soldiers through them that which they had feared.

haman actually was minster in the persian empire who was born centuries after moses

so how can allah (god) make such big historical mistakes and dont know the diffrent between the father of virgin mary and the father of miriam the sister of moses

since i was young i was told that the quran does not make any mistake because it came stright from angel gebrial himself (and that is another story)

I’m not interested in dragging poor
Lucy’s thread off track by wiping the floor
with you over this post of yours.

Engage me elsewhere,
if you care,
but there’s not a single historical mistake in there.

 

[dzheremi]

Elwill, why do you ask if God will accept a given prayer? It is only our intention to pray for all that they may come to know the truth. If you would not pray for an atheist because Islam teaches you that Allah preemptively rejects prayers for such people, then what is the point of prayer in Islam? If we only pray for people who already doing what God wants them to do (whether we believe that is in Christianity, or Islam, or some other religion), then what is the point? Those people are already living truth, aren’t they?

I don’t understand this viewpoint. Don’t pray for people who need it, God won’t accept that.

 

[arabic_catholic]

arabic catholic , you didn’t answered my question

do you think that when a christians ask forgivness for an athiest who reject jesus and reject christianity , may God accept thier prayer ? if it yes then can i say that christ not the only way for salvation
if the answer is no , then your prayer not exceed the meaning of respect

tell me what is the view of christianity you understand about this point .

---

accepting the prayer is something in god hands i cant say if god will accept it or reject it

it is always an option

what i do know that god is mercy and he love us all and we can always pray however it is not a sin to pray for a dead person and that is not against god at all

but in islam it is a sin to pray for a dead (non- muslim) moreover it is a sin to pray for a living non muslim ( i can only pray that god make him muslim no more no less )!!

and its a sin to love kafir (infdel) and to take him as close friend (Give me a Break !!)

islam-qa.com/en/ref/47322

read all this in website of the sunni scholar al munajed

---

as for haman i encouarge you to go to orignal tafsir books not to what 20th century dogma which is devolep by Maurice Bucaille (king faisal physician) just recent years to skip the reality that haman was a an egyptian not persian !!!

i must admit many muslims scholars are realy excellent in creating such stories

Time out !!

dear friend i saw a video please watch it so you can see how muslims shaikh lie

youtube.com/watch?v=4LAhVKtBktM

god bless you

 

[arabic_catholic]

I’m not interested in dragging poor
Lucy’s thread off track by wiping the floor
with you over this post of yours.

Engage me elsewhere,
if you care,
but there’s not a single historical mistake in there.

you are right

sorry lucy

 

[Thyme]

I don’t understand this viewpoint. Don’t pray for people who need it, God won’t accept that.

This is exactly what I’m wondering. Why would perfect God be such an elitist? I It sounds to me that Muhammed was trying to scare people into staying Muslim.

Also, can I ask you why Allah/Muhammed said that Christians worship three gods and that one of them is Mary? Also, what about the early church that was discovered (would have been made within Christ’s life, by people who knew Him personally). It had a cross on the front with rays coming out. Jesus’ message must have been corrupted by His Apostles for this to happen, meaning that He was a complete and utter failure and Muhammed was wrong when he said the Bible was corrupted, because it would have been corrupted before people even read it.

This is something I just can’t understand and a Muslim has never given me their opinion on this, so please tell me your view.

 

[Linda_Marie]

While it is true that prayers for the damned will not do them any good, who are we to determine who is damned and who will inherit eternal life?

In declaring someone damned and in hell, one is usurping God’s prerogative and judging the state of that person’s soul. No one but God knows what is in the depths of our hearts. Only God can judge, not us.

If I judge someone without mercy, that is - I determine that their souls are burning in hell due to some heinous crime, what can I expect when it is my turn to stand before the Lord? I hope for Mercy, not Justice.

Jesus, on the cross, said of those who had flogged Him, crowned Him with thorns, mocked Him and crucified Him, “Father, forgive them. They know not what they do.”

According to Islam (leastways I think it is), to kill a prophet is to damn oneself to hell, yet here was Jesus praying for them, specifically that they receive mercy and forgiveness, not condemnation to the fires of hell.

We are also taught that if the person for whom we are praying is in hell, the merit of those prayers go into the heavenly treasury to be used for those who they will help, according to the Will of God. No prayer is ever wasted.

 

[Thyme]

We are also taught that if the person for whom we are praying is in hell, the merit of those prayers go into the heavenly treasury to be used for those who they will help, according to the Will of God. No prayer is ever wasted.

“On the cross, the fountain of My mercy was opened wide by the lance for all souls - no one have I excluded!”

“** I am more generous towards sinners** than toward the just. It was for their sake that I came down form Heaven; it was for their sake that My Blood was spilled. Let them not fear to approach Me; they are in most need of My mercy.”

"I am not surrounded by a retinue or guards. You can come to me at any moment, at any time; I want to speak to you and desire to grant you grace. "

"My mercy is greater than your sins and those of the entire world. Who can measure the extent of my goodness? For you I descended from heaven to earth; for you I allowed myself to be nailed to a cross; for you I let My Sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of mercy for you… "

"With My mercy,** I pursue sinners along all their paths**, and My Heart rejoices when they return to Me. I forget the bitterness with which they fed My Heart and rejoice at their return… Tell sinners that I am always waiting for them, that I listen intently to the beating of their heart… I am speaking to them through their remorse of conscience, through their failings and sufferings, through thunderstorms, through the voice of the Church. "

Christ to St. Faustina. Sorry, I’m always quoting the Divine Mercy, but He amazes me

 

[Thyme]

I want to give myself to souls and to fill them with My love, but few there are who want to accept all the graces My love has intended for them.My grace is not lost;. if the soul for whom it was intended does not accept it, another soul takes it

 

[Lucy26]

You’re right, I don’t have a clue what background you’re from, but I’m fairly certain it’s not the same as mine. Moreover, it’s not fair of you to suggest that I’m not “living” Islam, because I am now and have been for years. To say I’m “studying” is only to let you know that I’m not just living but also living it with comprehension of meaning.

I lived it with comprehension of meaning as well- which is why regardless of whether I join the Church or not, I am now an apostate of Islam- the teachings of the religion do not suit me the way they seem to suit you, and I find it insulting that because I’ve reached a different conclusion about it than you, you assume that it’s because we are from different backgrounds and that you seem to discount everything I’ve taken issue with over the years in Islam- instead of realizing that there might be valid reasons for my conclusion you seem to write them off. If I’m misunderstanding you I apologize because I realize this might just be a misunderstanding, but that is the impression I’ve gotten.

 

[Lucy26]

I do think God hears our prayers for nonbelievers- they need prayer, and God is a loving God so while it is not for me to say that He will accept those prayers, I do think he will.

elwill;7337087:

arabic catholic , you didn’t answered my question

do you think that when a christians ask forgivness for an athiest who reject jesus and reject christianity , may God accept thier prayer ? if it yes then can i say that christ not the only way for salvation
if the answer is no , then your prayer not exceed the meaning of respect

tell me what is the view of christianity you understand about this point .

---

accepting the prayer is something in god hands i cant say if god will accept it or reject it

it is always an option

what i do know that god is mercy and he love us all and we can always pray however it is not a sin to pray for a dead person and that is not against god at all

but in islam it is a sin to pray for a dead (non- muslim) moreover it is a sin to pray for a living non muslim ( i can only pray that god make him muslim no more no less )!!

and its a sin to love kafir (infdel) and to take him as close friend (Give me a Break !!)

islam-qa.com/en/ref/47322

read all this in website of the sunni scholar al munajed

---

as for haman i encouarge you to go to orignal tafsir books not to what 20th century dogma which is devolep by Maurice Bucaille (king faisal physician) just recent years to skip the reality that haman was a an egyptian not persian !!!

i must admit many muslims scholars are realy excellent in creating such stories

Time out !!

dear friend i saw a video please watch it so you can see how muslims shaikh lie

youtube.com/watch?v=4LAhVKtBktM

god bless you

 

[elwill]

accepting the prayer is something in god hands i cant say if god will accept it or reject it

it is always an option

in islam , you have an option only while you alive , after your death it’s over

i thought it’s the same in christianity , that you have a chance as long as you are alive .
it’s the first time for me to find someone saying to me that theire is probability for those died while rejecting christ to get salvation if someone christian prayed to him after he died
i think this theory contradict the teaching of the bible itself which says that believing in christ is the only way , unless if someone believed in him after his death

what i do know that god is mercy and he love us all and we can always pray however it is not a sin to pray for a dead person and that is not against god at all

but in islam it is a sin to pray for a dead (non- muslim) moreover it is a sin to pray for a living non muslim ( i can only pray that god make him muslim no more no less )!!

may be it’s not a sin , it’s just not wise or useless . God don’t want from us to waste our time in prayer we allready know it will not answered
in another verse God said to the prophet (pbuh)

It is equal to them whether you (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) ask forgiveness or ask not forgiveness for them, Allah will never forgive them. Verily, Allah guides not the people who are the Fasiqin (rebellious, disobedient to Allah).

and its a sin to love kafir (infdel) and to take him as close friend (Give me a Break !!)

well , i don’t believe in that

as for haman i encouarge you to go to orignal tafsir books not to what 20th century dogma which is devolep by Maurice Bucaille (king faisal physician) just recent years to skip the reality that haman was a an egyptian not persian !!!

if the authers of original tafsir books were scientists in ancient egypt language and theire history i will rely on their knowledge about this point

 

[Lucy26]

There is a book by a man who used to be an atheist - it’s titled “The Case for Christ.” Lee Strobel is the author. His wife became a Christian and he saw wonderful changes in her, and he had to prove to himself that Jesus really is the Son of God. amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291578631&sr=1-1

Many former Muslims say that once they understand that God WANTS a relationship with them, WANTS them to know him intimately, they are so amazed since Islam teaches that you are only to submit and that you cannot ever know the mind of Allah.

And from what I have read about Mohammed, he was influenced greatly by Jewish and Christian traders who traveled through his area. The earlier suras of the Koran were the peaceful ones but the ones after his tribe rejected his prophecies are the ones who turn against Jews and Christians. I am reading “The Sword of the Prophet” by Serge Trifkovic which has been very enlightening to me. http://www.amazon.com/Sword-Prophet-History-Theology-Impact/dp/1928653111

May God bless you in your exploration!



p.s. Let’s all pray for the Muslims who have had their hearts touched by Christ and are seeing with clear eyes for the first time!!!

Thank you! Guess what… I was going through all my books (I have well over 500 in my house, and more in my car LOL) and I actually have The Case For Christ! I’m not sure where I got it from, I’m wondering if maybe a guest left it at my house at some point and I just never noticed, but I have no idea who would have forgotten it here. Oh well… I’m going to start reading it today

 

[Thyme]

in islam , you have an option only while you alive , after your death it’s over

i thought it’s the same in christianity ,

It’s completely the opposite in Christianity. The Jews even used to pray and offer sacrifices for the dead (I don’t know if they still pray for the dead, but I’m sure they still do). It was a practise that goes back to before Christianity.

that you have a chance as long as you are alive .
it’s the first time for me to find someone saying to me that theire is probability for those died while rejecting christ to get salvation if someone christian prayed to him after he died
i think this theory contradict the teaching of the bible itself which says that believing in christ is the only way , unless if someone believed in him after his death

We don’t know what state someone is when they are dying. While they appear dead to the world, a great conversion may be going on. This is the point where hell is fighting for the soul and we must pray for their grace and for their conversion. We must also pray for the conversion of souls so that they may accept God’s mercy when He meets them. God said that the prayers for mercy and conversion of sinners are the most pleasing to him and are always answered.

**
may be it’s not a sin , it’s just not wise or useless . God don’t want from us to waste our time in prayer we allready know it will not answered
in another verse God said to the prophet (pbuh) **

God does want to spend our time praying for all souls and He said that all prayers for mercy and the conversion of souls are answered. As I said earlier, someone may be dead to the world, but souls are eternal. The devils are trying to claim their soul and Christ is trying to get the soul to trust His mercy. Our Lady is also praying for them “pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death”. ) We must pray for the soul for when they meet God, because we want them to accept His mercy. I am so shocked/appalled/dissappointed that a religious person wouldn’t see the point in this

It is equal to them whether you (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) ask forgiveness or ask not forgiveness for them, Allah will never forgive them. Verily, Allah guides not the people who are the Fasiqin (rebellious, disobedient to Allah).

I could never genuinly love God if I believed that His morals, love and mercy are inferior to those of mere humans’.

“Be assured that the grace of eternal salvation for certain souls in their final moment depends on your prayer.”

… Outwardly, it seems as if everything were lost, but it is not so. The soul, illumined by a ray of God’s powerful final grace, turns to God in the last moment with such a power of love that, in an instant, it receives from God forgiveness of sin and punishment…

.

 

[dzheremi]

Elwill:

You have an incorrect understanding of prayer as it relates to those who have passed on. It is true that when you have died your own ability to seek forgiveness for your own soul is finished (or else our own leaders would not give sermons like this one). I remember getting into an argument with a now-banned Catholic poster here who swore up and down that a religious told him that God gives you one last chance upon your death to repent, but as he could not substantiate his claim with any Patristic writing, I and another (Orthodox) poster who took issue with him were forced to conclude that it was only his wishful thinking.

However, the fact that ones own earthly life of either following or not following God is over at death does not mean that the prayers of others are of no consequence. Christians have always prayed, from the earliest times, for the souls of the departed not because we are arrogant enough to think that we can change God’s mind on any account, but because it is right to hope that God have mercy on everyone. Because all of us fall short of being guaranteed eternal life on account of our deeds (to believe otherwise is heresy), we pray for humanity, both present and departed, that God may show mercy on the least of His creations, as the good Christian must count himself as the least among the least. As Saint Abba Isaiah tells us “Humility is to hold oneself as guilty and to find that one has done nothing good before God.”

Prayer is a need and a gift to be constantly renewed, not a privilege only for the “acceptable”. We all need it, and we all ought to offer it in kind. Our God is a God of hope and love (as well as vengeance and jealousy…God is complex, you see), and not to avail ourselves of his mercies shows a great disrespect toward Him and a profound malformation in our relationship with Him which our souls cannot afford to persist in. We MUST return to God in prayer or else perish in utter hopelessness. Put another way, praying for the souls of the departed (and our own souls) may not get them into heaven, but not praying for them certainly will not.

Come back to God in prayer (Sermon by HH Pope Shenouda III - pt. I)
Come back to God in prayer (Sermon by HH Pope Shenouda III - pt. II)

 

[Sister_Amy]

The freedom to make up your own religion… who could turn it down?

 

[dzheremi]

???

Was that in response to me, Sister Amy?