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Bwtby
Guest
Like ‘brethren’ concerning Jesus. Were James, Joses, Simon, and Judas brothers of Jesus?
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algebra
Guest
What does that mean? So mary was named after miriam, that is not addressing the issue of her being the sister of aaron and daughter of Amram.
I think the unbiased person is going to realize right off the bat that this is a huge problem.
This and the severe mangling of the trinity, are sufficient proof that the quran is the work of Mohammed.
And to add to that we have to consider sura 10:100, which in my opinion is the icing on the cake.
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dzheremi
Guest
The difference here (dealt with in many threads here on CAF) has to do with the usage of the term in the original language in which the Bible passage was written. Was “daughter” used in Qur’anic Arabic with such wide-ranging applications? (I know very little about QA, so I honestly don’t know.)
I am aware that ‘mother’ has some extended theological meaning (I think Muhammad’s wives are sometimes referred to as ‘Umm al-Mumineen’ = Mothers of the Believers, aren’t they?), but I’ve never heard anything similar about ‘daughter’.
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men0wjv
Guest
How does this not answer the question… erm its really obvious??? You need to understand higher function first, so things like metaphor, subtelty etc Mariam = Mary, well Shimon (Hebrew) = Simon, so why did you mention that? A huge problem eh? Hmm, well CCC 441 says: In the Old Testament, “son of God” is a title given to the angels, the Chosen People, the children of Israel, and their kings. It signifies an adoptive sonship that establishes a relationship of particular intimacy between God and his creature. When the promised Messiah-King is called “son of God”, it does not necessarily imply that he was more than human, according to the literal meaning of these texts. Those who called Jesus “son of God”, as the Messiah of Israel, perhaps meant nothing more than this. Of course I’ve looked it up (your ‘research’ is poor) and understand what it is getting at, but the point is, is that figurative type descriptions were common place, so any argument you put forward on this, is completely false. Its not just common to Hebrews and Arabs, but many cultures… even today; the scholar ibn Taymiyyah (Son of Taymiyyah) was named after his righteous Grandmother Taymiyyah! Can I not use C S Lewis’ description that I am a son of Adam. Really very poor my friend.
Anyway, you’ve already decided on this topic so there is no point continuing is there? And once again it in no endears anyone to Catholicism or entices one away from Islam; this sort of negative polemics. How do you manage to hate the religion of your wife and still have a good relationship?
God in peace and try and love my friend
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Thyme
Guest
True, but when Christ calls Himself the ‘Only Begotten Son of God’ and when the Apostles wrote ‘Begotten, not made’ and that He ‘Proceeded from the Father’.
We know what He meant.
Also:
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MartinJordan
Guest
Even the Jews themselves felt Jesus was blaspheming God. If it was just “perhaps meant nothing more than this” The Jews would have just thought Jesus was some sort of odd ball and wouldn’t care less.
MJ
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Thyme
Guest
True. When He called Himself the Only Begotten Son of God and YHWH (God’s name) they tried to stone him.
Also:
This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
If ‘the Son’ is refering to humanity, then why call him antichrist and why Son in single form?
Also, notice it doesn’t stop at Father? The antichrist isn’t going to deny the Father, but the Father and the Son. It doesn’t speak badly of people who deny prophets etc. It is only concerned with denial of the Father and the Son. For it to be the Antichrist, it must be against Christ. I’m thinking… Holy Trinity?
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men0wjv
Guest
Thanks for the clarification, but I knew this… mainly from the following section in the CCC, the:
Of course I’ve looked it up (your ‘research’ is poor) and understand what it is getting at,
Was really trying to say that and instead point to the fact that figurative expressions are common place then and in all cultures
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Thyme
Guest
Sorry, I didn’t really understand the reply, so if you don’t mind, please could you rephrase it?
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BlueShadow123
Guest
Lucy, you never replied to me.
I asked ‘why did you become Christian’? I am curious.
I asked ‘why did you become Christian’? I am curious.
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Lucy26
Guest
Oops, I’m sorry! Didn’t mean to overlook your question!
I’m not really willing to call myself Christian yet. I’m on my way though I think. I’m halfway b/w Muslim and Christian right now I guess. I read the gospels, read the Sermon on the Mount about fifty times probably. Then I researched more on the Catholic Church and the teachings remind me so much of Islam, yet they make sense in a way Islam never has. I’ve gone to Mass a few times now. I’ve never felt like Islam taught that God loved us. I felt as though I was a slave of God rather than adored by God and created in His own image. I’ve found what I was missing in the Gospels. Now I understand why most Imams I’ve heard speak at the masjids here always advised us against reading the Bible. The Bible is the word of God I believe that the Bible’s teachings are true. John 8:32 says “Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free”. The truth has set me free. Then John 8:35 jumped out at me too. It says “Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.”
In Islam, I am a slave of God. In the church, I am loved by God. I want more for myself than to simply be a slave, regardless of the context the word is used in. I know the ‘rules’ in Islam… but I’m finding that I can no longer abide by them.
Does that make sense? I was typing in a hurry- My puppy ripped up a roll of paper towels right after I started responding so I’ve been trying to hurry and finish so I can get them away from her LOL.
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rikkk1958
Guest
It makes a lot of sense Lucy and it is just the beginning. Right now, the Holy Spirit is trying to knock into your heart, and once you let Him in, I can feel that, actually He is in there already, all you have to do is do His will, for He is the Way, the Life, and the Truth. The Catholic Church is not only vouching on what you read from the Holy Bible but the Church which the Holy Bible is talking about, “The Pillar and foundation of the Truth.”
The Catholic Church not only wants you to communicate with God but to follow and obey what Christ taught and instructed to His disciples. He left instructions to build His Church so that when He left, we still have the means to keep in touch with Him, for he said “Whoever eats my flesh and drink my blood, will have life”. This is the reason why we need successions because the disciples will no longer with us also forever and we need someone to administer His Church and keep in Communion with Him through the celebration of the Holy Eucharist.
You can read this tradition in the New Testament on how the disciples and early fathers continued to keep the Church He wants to be built. The unity provided oneness in the interpretations of the scriptures so that no one will be misguided. It was also decided by our early fathers what we must follow, the dogmas or doctrines of the Church, not only we have faith from their decisions, they are also deeply rooted in the scriptures and witnessed by them. Who could have a better understanding than those who are there ever since the scriptures were written.
We have no problem with other Christians who says they have the Holy Spirit and communicates directly to God. The Catholics stand firm in the unity, and will continue the traditions which Christ Himself instructed first to His Apostles. Communications with God is not enough because after all we are taught to follow.
The Catholic Church not only wants you to communicate with God but to follow and obey what Christ taught and instructed to His disciples. He left instructions to build His Church so that when He left, we still have the means to keep in touch with Him, for he said “Whoever eats my flesh and drink my blood, will have life”. This is the reason why we need successions because the disciples will no longer with us also forever and we need someone to administer His Church and keep in Communion with Him through the celebration of the Holy Eucharist.
You can read this tradition in the New Testament on how the disciples and early fathers continued to keep the Church He wants to be built. The unity provided oneness in the interpretations of the scriptures so that no one will be misguided. It was also decided by our early fathers what we must follow, the dogmas or doctrines of the Church, not only we have faith from their decisions, they are also deeply rooted in the scriptures and witnessed by them. Who could have a better understanding than those who are there ever since the scriptures were written.
We have no problem with other Christians who says they have the Holy Spirit and communicates directly to God. The Catholics stand firm in the unity, and will continue the traditions which Christ Himself instructed first to His Apostles. Communications with God is not enough because after all we are taught to follow.
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thedarknight
Guest
Congratulations! God bless you in your journey. I will keep you in my prayers:thumbsup:
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thedarknight
Guest
Greetings my brothers and sisters. I’ve recently joined this thread and thus far, your comment** rikkk1958** is striking.
Love is foreign to Islam which is why Sufism grew as a sect. The Sufis wanted a connection with Allah that is more than unknowing and distant from man, but one who radiates love and who desires the love of man.
It’s no wonder Sufism were persecuted [some parts of Islam frown upon them] even now for their heretical thinking and practice of becoming in union with Allah, whom Rumi at times calls the* Beloved*.
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men0wjv
Guest
BTW Sufism is not a sect its the fundamental science of ihsan (re: Jibrail hadith). There have been heretical Sufis and there have Orientalists who call themselves Sufis. However, the technical use by the Muslims of Sufi would not apply to them. As a Muslim one learns jurisprudence (Islam) theology (Iman) and tasawwuf (Ihsan), they are organically connected and so ignoring any single one of these is a corruption of it. This is the teaching of ahul Sunnah wal Jamat (the overwhelming majority) that you cvan get from places like Al Azhar, Al Qawariyyin, the Durood in India or Damascus i.e. these three elements are as Muhammad (pbuh) said: ‘your religion.’
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Lady_Bug
Guest
if there are any former Muslims around who have officially converted out or converted to another faith, what are your experiences with leaving Islam with regard to how your family reacted, or whether you had to “run away” and not tell anyone about your apostasy, etc.?
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Limette
Guest
My family disowned me. No one would eat with me anymore, or even sit in the same room.I was treated like less than an animal. My mother even tried to conspire with my ex-husband to take my children away from me as they didn’t want the kids to be raised by a “insane” unbelieving mother. Total isolation on all sides.
But Christ is indeed Lord and reigns over and above all the storms in my life. The Holy Spirit never left me alone.
“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me”, says the Word.
So here I am.
My cousin who also gave her life to Christ was kicked out of the house and had to live with church members. She spent 12 years living as a destitute. She is now back in the family home after she renounced Christ and pretended to be Muslim again. She has two children to feed, and the country is currently in a war-like situation, so I don’t blame her.
Through all this, I would not trade anything for Christ. He is my mother, father, sister, brother, husband. The rock and shelter and tower where I find refuge.
Last week, for the first time, my mother called me and my sister asked me to pray for them. So I am grateful for all the miracles He is operating in my and their lives.
God bless.
But Christ is indeed Lord and reigns over and above all the storms in my life. The Holy Spirit never left me alone.
“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me”, says the Word.
So here I am.
My cousin who also gave her life to Christ was kicked out of the house and had to live with church members. She spent 12 years living as a destitute. She is now back in the family home after she renounced Christ and pretended to be Muslim again. She has two children to feed, and the country is currently in a war-like situation, so I don’t blame her.
Through all this, I would not trade anything for Christ. He is my mother, father, sister, brother, husband. The rock and shelter and tower where I find refuge.
Last week, for the first time, my mother called me and my sister asked me to pray for them. So I am grateful for all the miracles He is operating in my and their lives.
God bless.
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dzheremi
Guest
Thank you, Limette, for that powerful and honest testimony. It certainly shows us that our churches need to be better equipped to provide support for the new believers in Christ. Dr. Nabil T. Jabbour makes the same point in his book on evangelizing Muslims, The Crescent Through the Eyes of the Cross (which is highly recommended; check the reviews on Amazon). He points out that the average Muslim will find it hard to come to Christianity even if he feels it is true because it means giving up basically all of their lives and societal support systems. Sure, a Christian can tell his Muslim friend “Come to Jesus and you will find eternal life”, but can he also provide the Muslim with the social support needed to stay strong in the faith when the convert’s family, friends, and entire society turn their back on him, or even worse actively persecute him? I have thought for a long time that there should be something like an “underground railroad” for converts from Islam (and have heard of something like that in Iran, though it is not very organized). The sad truth is that because of the social circumstances of Islamic societies and communities, converts from those places often face situations not incomparable to the situations faced by women escaping domestic violence. They need the same care, just as anyone would need if they faced harsh consequences and an uncertain future.
God bless you for your decision to follow Christ in all circumstances. Continue to draw strength from Him, and pray that your cousin be shown the way back. I will do the same.
God bless you for your decision to follow Christ in all circumstances. Continue to draw strength from Him, and pray that your cousin be shown the way back. I will do the same.
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rikkk1958
Guest
Thank you for sharing your story and as a Catholic I can relate to you that the truth can really set you free. I share to you a link here which moved me to tears.
youtube.com/watch?v=8MvfAJ7ap8s
youtube.com/watch?v=vF6oqGekRy0&feature=related
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LuckyOle
Guest
Limette,
My prayers are with you on your journey
May God grant you strength.
My prayers are with you on your journey
May God grant you strength.
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