Muslim Version of the Events Surrounding Jesus’ Conviction

[discipleofJesus]

discipleofJesus:

Christians have thoroughly refuted the ‘swoon theory’.

One example would be
‘The Crucifixion of Christ:
A Fact, not Fiction’ by John Gilchrist
answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/crucifixion.html

See also this related book
‘What Indeed Was the Sign of Jonah?’ by John Gilchrist
answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/jonah.html

which Gilchrist refers to in his book
‘The Crucifixion of Christ:
A Fact, not Fiction’

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS:

lets have some logic here. Why would allah put someone else on the cross that looks like Jesus?? why did the poor guy have to die for something Jesus said and did not himself? is allah fair to this poor man? and how come the man didnt shout : hey ! why are you crucifying me? am not Jesus! and why would allah allow this incident to happen, thus deluding the millions of christians? and who knew this fact? mohammad…so allah the schemer laughed out loud looking at christians and knowing they believe in something that he himseld did as a trick?? who dod this trick serve?? of course not millions of christians…and why did the apostles die ? did they have a miss illusion of seeing the resurrected Jesus? and why did this hallucination stay for only 40 days ?and what about the jews who confess killing the “historical” jesus?? shall we forget thousands of people christians, pagans and jews to believe an arab who came 600 years after the eyewitnesses?? nop. . anyway there is enough evidence that he stole from apocryphal bibles like the incidents of Jesus speaking as a baby, and making a bird out of clay, and Mary eating dates while pregnant with Jesus…go see mohammad the robber before you take seriously any word he said.

 

[inJESUS]

the crucifixion of Jesus is a HISTORICAL FACT, not only written by christians, but by NON-CHRISTIANS as well. One only needs to read extra-biblical writings to realize it. Jews admitt killing Jesus…so both jews and christians know it as a FACT.

 

[Faith101]

inJESUS:

the crucifixion of Jesus is a HISTORICAL FACT, not only written by christians, but by NON-CHRISTIANS as well. One only needs to read extra-biblical writings to realize it. Jews admitt killing Jesus…so both jews and christians know it as a FACT.

I thought that the Jews called Jesus a liar…therefore, according to your scripture, either he was a liar or they were.

So i guess you will say that they are the liars, if so…then why do you believe what they say?

 

[inJESUS]

I thought that the Jews called Jesus a liar…therefore, according to your scripture, either he was a liar or they were.

they called him blasphemer because he was equaling himself with God.

So i guess you will say that they are the liars, if so…then why do you believe what they say?

you question is irrelevant and logically inconsistent. Jews do admitt, till our day, that they killed jesus. Why would they lie? in their early writings, you see that they did indeed write about killing him. Calling Jesus by any name is their personal accusation, it has nothing to do with killing him. In fact, they killed him BECAUSE they said he is a blasphemer or liar if you prefer it.

 

[Faith101]

inJESUS:

you question is irrelevant and logically inconsistent. Jews do admitt, till our day, that they killed jesus. Why would they lie? in their early writings, you see that they did indeed write about killing him. Calling Jesus by any name is their personal accusation, it has nothing to do with killing him. In fact, they killed him BECAUSE they said he is a blasphemer or liar if you prefer it.

They also admit, to this day, that he is not God, not God’s son, not even sent by God–but a liar.

I guess you just have to pick and choose what to believe from them

In any case…i can agree that they *think * they killed him…but God, from His mercy, saved him.

 

[Wildkit]

Faith101:

They also admit, to this day, that he is not God, not God’s son, not even sent by God–but a liar.

I guess you just have to pick and choose what to believe from them

In any case…i can agree that they *think * they killed him…but God, from His mercy, saved him.

Faith:

Perhaps you would like to start another forum versus refraining from answering the statement/question posed. It is tough when you may not have an answer,…we all try our best.

God bless you

 

[inJESUS]

They also admit, to this day, that he is not God, not God’s son, not even sent by God–but a liar.

of course, coz they didnt accept he is the Messiah. According to the way they understood, they thought the Messiah is to be a political King, thats why they asked Jesus : if you are a king, then where is your kingdom? to which Jesus answered: my kingdom is not from here but from above. That is, Jesus was telling them that the King they were waiting for is not a political king but the King of the World.

I guess you just have to pick and choose what to believe from them

i believe that they called him blasphemer and i believe that they killed him. In fact , as i told you, they killed him because he blasphemed, saying he is God. So i believe the 2

In any case…i can agree that they *think *

they killed him…but God, from His mercy, saved him. Hilarious you say : they “think” loooooooool…no my dear they DID kill him. Does mohammad know better than the jews who flogged him and killed him? …my dear, Jesus took his cross on his back while jews were accompagning him. When they arrived they put him on the cross, looking deeply into his face , and kept looking at him until he died…then they hit him with a spear to make sure he died.

And what is mohammads version? that allah put someone who looks like Jesus?? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL…what a pathetic trick from allah and mohammad…what a fair allah who makes some poor guy die for something Jesus did !! and what a deceitful allah who makes a silly trick that served no one coz no one knew about it except a guy 600 years later Talk about logic

 

[discipleofJesus]

Faith101:

I thought that the Jews called Jesus a liar…therefore, according to your scripture, either he was a liar or they were.

So i guess you will say that they are the liars, if so…then why do you believe what they say?

Faith101:

They also admit, to this day, that he is not God, not God’s son, not even sent by God–but a liar.

I guess you just have to pick and choose what to believe from them

What are you talking about!?

First, where did you get that Jews called Jesus a liar from? Show me evidence.

Second of all, if anyone calls Jesus a liar it doesn’t necesssarily mean that person (who accused Jesus of being a liar) is a liar, but it could mean he/she made a wrong judgement i.e. it could mean that person is a liar or that person made a wrong judgement or both.

Third of all, are you saying that ALL Jews are liars and that they lie ALL the time? Ifso, where is your evidence for such a claim?

And finally, it doesn’t matter whether the Jews claim they killed Jesus or not. We believe the disciples, who reported what happened to Jesus! I trust them even if Jews contradicted their report. However, the Jews also admit that they killed Jesus and that is extra evidence (which isn’t needed because what the disciples reported is sufficient evidence!)

 

[discipleofJesus]

Also, the Jews weren’t the only non-Christians to admit that Jesus was killed. The following quote is from ‘The Death of Christ’ by Dr. Norman Geisler johnankerberg.com/Articles/theological-dictionary/TD0600W3.htm

References to the Crucifixion.

According to Julius Africanus (ca. 221), the first-century Samaritan-born historian, Thallus (ca. 52), “when discussing the darkness which fell upon the land during the crucifixion of Christ,” spoke of it as an eclipse (Bruce, 113, emphasis added). The second-century Greek writer, Lucian, speaks of Christ as “the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced a new cult into the world.” He calls him the “crucified sophist” (Geisler, 323). The “letter of Mara Bar-Serapion” (ca. A.D. 73), housed in the British Museum, speaks of Christ’s death, asking: “What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King?” (Bruce, 114). Finally, there was the Roman writer, Phlegon, who spoke of Christ’s death and resurrection in his Chronicles, saying, “Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death, and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails” (Phlegon, Chronicles, cited by Origen, 4:455). Phlegon even mentioned “the eclipse in the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place” (ibid., 445).

The earliest Christian writers after the time of Christ affirmed his death on the cross by crucifixion. Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John, repeatedly affirmed the death of Christ, speaking, for example, of “our Lord Jesus Christ, who for our sins suffered even unto death” (Polycarp, 33). Ignatius (30-107), a friend of Polycarp, wrote, “And he really suffered and died, and rose again.” Otherwise, he adds, all his apostles who suffered for this belief, died in vain. “But, (in truth) none of these sufferings were in vain; for the Lord was really crucified by the ungodly” (Ignatius, 107). In Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Justin Martyr noted that Jews of his day believed that “Jesus [was] a Galilean deceiver, whom we crucified” (Martyr 253).

Tacitus Roman Annals (c.115-117 AD)

“They got their name from Christ, who was executed by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. That checked the pernicious superstition for a short time, but it broke out afresh–not only in Judea, where the plague first arose, but in Rome itself, where all the horrible and shameful things in the world collect and find a home.”
(Tacitus, Annals xv, 44)

 

[inJESUS]

the point is this : if only christians claim he was killed, then they have the right to doubt. but when Anti-christians say it as well, then no clearer evidence. The burden lies upon mohammad to give proof, but he gave nothing.