Muslim women granted rights centuries b4 west..

[notaprophet]

I think I’ve come to the right place to get some insight on this.

I have a muslim friend who’s always trying to direct our conversations to his faith and all that even though he knows I’m a strict catholic. I can also see that he is strict to his faith and at the same time I think he honors the suicidal missions.

After many refussals he still wanted to give me a brochure about Muhammad as I told him I’ve already heard of him many times. Finally I agreed out of being polite.

Right from the cover page I read things that don’t seem right and the more I read on the more I discover things I haven’t heard before. Out of many things I disagree with this one really is mindboggling,

He (Muhammad)condemned domestic violence, encouraged his wives to speak their own mind, granted Muslim women many rights not dreamed of in Europe until centuries later,, including the right to own property, reject arranged marriages, and seek divorce because of incompatibility.

Is this true because the way I see it is that Muslim women rarely have any rights at all?
You can read it on this one below. Check out the parable about himself. I’ve never heard of it before even from the book of parables. text deleted wamy supposedly stands for ‘world assembly of muslim youth.’

www.wamy.co.uk/bd_m.htm

Thankyou for sharing with me on this topic.

 

[r.gonzales]

notaprophet:

Is this true because the way I see it is that Muslim women rarely have any rights at all?

yes, it’s true. all you have to do is read the history of the arabs before prophet muhammad was commissioned with his prophethood. the sealed nectar is a fairly authentic and reliable account of prophet muhammad’s life. it has a section on arab culture and society before the advent of islam. check it out…

secondly, please explain what you mean here about rarely having any rights at all. what do you know about the rights muslim women have or don’t have? (asking out of curiousity, not out of hostility).

quote and comment deleted

 

[meedo]

Muslim women dont have rights

All Japaneese peopel Know karate

Western women are all lustful sharon stone Leud Hollywood style.

King Kong Lives in Hong Kong

The arab world is a place where people live in tents and go to work riding a Camel

etec etc etc lol

There are alot of stuff in this world that is going around without any proof. Alot of mixups and predetermined prejudice.

A muslim women 1400 years ago could go to a judge and demand to be divorced . The husband has NO CHOICE!! The only stipulation is that if he gave her a Dowry for marriage she gives it to him back WITHOUT ANY INTEREST EVEN IF DECADES LATER!!

You mix up Secular law with Islamic law . Funny, here in Egypt Conservative muslims were fighting to include this islamic law into practice and was opposed for a while by the SECULAR government !!!

Islam oppresses women!!! Go and talk to a muslim women instead of watching conservative lies on TV !!!

Actually sometimes we think that western women dont have enough rigthts. You guys in the west have girls brainwashed into selling their bodies for money to be on TV and Magazines for mens Lust !!! Women rights?!!!

If you would assert that this isnt christianity then i would assert the same .

Oppression isnt Islam.

Peace

 

[sainted]

Why aren’t there any women in a mosque?

 

[meedo]

There are !!! My mom attends weekly lectures at the nearby Mosque and she prays there as well too as much as she likes!!

what you dont understand is that the Prayer in Mosque is Nearly Obligatory for men and it isnt so for women .

and excuse me but we like to separate sexes in Mosques so everybody concentrate in his prayers.

The jews do the same in their synagogues so we arent really inventing somthing.

 

[selvaraj]

meedo:

Actually sometimes we think that western women dont have enough rigthts.

Peace

Where Mohammed was born,

Woman may not travel abroad unless she has the written authorization of the appropriate male relative, usually her father or husband, and may have to be accompanied. Inside Saudi Arabia her freedom of movement is severely curtailed. A woman who fails to comply with strict dress codes risks detention and ill-treatment. Furthermore, women are forbidden from driving, a ban made official in 1990 by a Fatwa issued by the Council of Senior ‘Ulama. To walk unaccompanied or to be in the company of a man who is neither her husband nor a close relative puts her at risk of arrest on suspicion of prostitution or other “moral” offences. Given these restrictions on their right to freedom of movement, the scope for women in Saudi Arabia to enjoy the spectrum of civil, political, social, economic and cultural rights is limited in the extreme.

In Christ,
selvaraj

 

[sainted]

By Meedo

Actually sometimes we think that western women dont have enough rigthts. You guys in the west have girls brainwashed into selling their bodies for money to be on TV and Magazines for mens Lust !!! Women rights?!!!

Peace

Can you name one of these ‘not enough rights’? Has there been any female president/prime minister of any muslim nation in the near past? Not long ago political parties consisted of only men. In Afghanistan recently women were not allowed access to education.

Who is brainwashing these girls? It’s out of their own right they do this - not that I like their way of exercising this right. But you make it sound like, we have a similar kind of warehouse where we infiltrate their minds in doing such acts, text deleted

text deleted

Peace

 

[Hospitaller]

He (Muhammad)condemned domestic violence, encouraged his wives to speak their own mind, granted Muslim women many rights not dreamed of in Europe until centuries later,, including the right to own property, reject arranged marriages, and seek divorce because of incompatibility.

I think the operative words here are “not dreamed of”.

And just off-hand, claiming that European women couldn’t own property is patently false.

 

[Viajero]

sainted:

Has there been any female president/prime minister of any muslim nation in the near past?

Does Megawati Sukarnoputri count? She was President of Indonesia from 2001 to 2004.

 

[meedo]

““Woman may not travel abroad unless she has the written authorization of the appropriate male relative, usually her father or husband, and may have to be accompanied. Inside Saudi Arabia her freedom of movement is severely curtailed. A woman who fails to comply with strict dress codes risks detention and ill-treatment. Furthermore, women are forbidden from driving, a ban made official in 1990 by a Fatwa issued by the Council of Senior ‘Ulama.””

The above is all saudi cultural thing , not Islam . Come to my country .

""To walk unaccompanied or to be in the company of a man who is neither her husband nor a close relative puts her at risk of arrest on suspicion of prostitution or other “moral” offences. “”

well how would they know he isnt her husband or son , do they inspect people on the street . I highly doubt they do that .

""Given these restrictions on their right to freedom of movement, the scope for women in Saudi Arabia to enjoy the spectrum of civil, political, social, economic and cultural rights is limited in the extreme. “”

Well men also suffer political troubles in saudi cause its a dictatorship . Any way it differs from country to country and again and again . This is saudi and noot Islam .

“Can you name one of these ‘not enough rights’? Has there been any female president/prime minister of any muslim nation in the near past? Not long ago political parties consisted of only men. In Afghanistan recently women were not allowed access to education.”

**
The right not to be painted as a sex symbol may be and the right for you not to feel in competition with sex symbols all over the TV and magazines and bikini clad women and strip bars?!**
**
Yes there have been many female president and prime minister. The former president of Indonesia and the former prime minister of pakistan. Have you ever had a female president in your country mam!!!**

Well afghanistan are bunch of uneducated themselves !!! Plus they did allow but the problem is that hey were poor and not enough schools. This thing of didnt allow women educated was a lie so that they can Invade it . Have you ever heared of the British reporter called Yvonne Riddly that got captured as a spy top afhanistan . have you ever heared her testemony of how they treated her? i bet you will be surprised. This lady was Captured by the Taliban and guess what , she was treated much better than any of your american army ever treated any female prisoner!!! At least she wasnt raped or thretened to be raped.

islamicinvitationcentre.com/audio/Yvonne_Ridley/Prisoner_of_the_taliban/Prisoner_of_the_taliban.html

““Who is brainwashing these girls? It’s out of their own right they do this - not that I like their way of exercising this right. But you make it sound like, we have a similar kind of warehouse where we infiltrate their minds in doing such acts, text deleted.””

text deleted

Peace

 

[Hospitaller]

Well our youth dont learn to become suicide mercenaries except in places where sadly your youth is invading other peoples land!!!

Maybe if we did more invading there’d be less of a problem. I recommend Syria, Sudan, Jordan and Saudi Arabia next.

 

[meedo]

No problem really. Bring them on lol.

May be you can volounteer for Iraq and go there to save the day!

Just put extra iron scrap on your humvy .

see you when you come back .

 

[Hospitaller]

meedo:

No problem really. Bring them on lol.

May be you can volounteer for Iraq and go there to save the day!

Just put extra iron scrap on your humvy .

see you when you come back .

I do actually, have the intention of going “over there”. I don’t suppose we’ll meet on opposite sides.

 

[sainted]

Tell you what meedo you fail to convince me in all your replies. … text deleted. It seems to me that it is impossible for a muslim to concede to anything. text deleted.

Why can’t you just admit that it was forbidden under Taliban Law for women to attend school, not saying all these excuses about being poor and so and so. Some African regions are even poorer but have no such bans on women to seek education.

text deleted

 

[meedo]

Well

Excuse me but you dont bring any proof of what you say except what you hear in the media.

I am a muslim who knows that the Prophet PBUH explicitly Banned any one from prohibiting women from seeking knowledge. And my sister actually holds Post graduate degrees while i dont !!! I am proud of her!!

My posts are not full of lies . Its full of things you dont wanna hear because you wanna keep living in your dreams . have you ever heared. Just like teh lies of ill treatement of prisoners and women by Taliban while The British reporter Yvonne Ridley bieng a prisoner herself Told of the lies that you spread . Just search

text deleted

Any way , you dont have to read my posts if you dont like them .

 

[Hospitaller]

meedo:

Excuse me but you dont bring any proof of what you say except what you hear in the media.

Our media generally tries to support your point of view.

meedo:

I am a muslim who knows that the Prophet PBUH explicitly Banned any one from prohibiting women from seeking knowledge. And my sister actually holds Post graduate degrees while i dont !!! I am proud of her!!

I don’t think anyone’s argued that, just your contention that European Christian women were donwtrodden by comparison.

meedo:

My posts are not full of lies . Its full of things you dont wanna hear because you wanna keep living in your dreams . have you ever heared. Just like teh lies of ill treatement of prisoners and women by Taliban while The British reporter Yvonne Ridley bieng a prisoner herself Told of the lies that you spread . Just search

text deleted.

 

[Joe_Monahan]

**Reminder to All:

The title of this thread is Muslim women granted rights centuries b4 west…. If no one has noticed as yet, all discussion unrelated to the rights of women in Islamic society has been edited out of the above posts. Keep the discussion on topic, charitable, and civil, or the thread will be closed.

Joe Monahan**

 

[Karen10]

**Part 1 of my response: **

The Koran condemned some old practices in pre-Islamic Arabia, such as women having no rights to inheritance, men’s inheriting of a woman, and forced prostitution.

However, Islam lacks guidance in matters of the dignity of women as human beings, such that injustice is allowed to spread. Catholics have moral guidance in the Church, enough to keep us from making very grave mistakes out of ignorance. Whether a particular Catholic follows the Truth is one matter, but the Truth is there for all. This keeps terrible things happening out of ignorance, or misinterpretation of a book.

There was once a fire in 2002, in Mecca, at a girl’s school. Since the girls inside weren’t wearing certain required garments, they perished. Firefighters and police were actually battled by the muttawa (religious police), because the muttawa’s radical faith faultily determined for them, that it was better for the girls to die than to see them without their proper garments. This reflects not a faulty culture, but a faulty religion that does not provide adequate guidance. Not all Muslims would have done what the muttawa did, but that morality should ever be so grossly misguided is evidence for some, that Islam lacks coherence that the Catholic Church does not.

Islam prides itself on its tenet that the simplest of people should be able to understand the Koran, and right from wrong (and, yet, actually impels everyone to study the Koran in Arabic, which not all Muslims can even do). This school fire wasn’t a cultural mistake; this represents misjudgment. It shocks my Catholic mind that Muslims believe in the simplicity of truth, yet we see terrible these things happen as a direct result of this belief. Obviously, truth *isn’t *always simple (and God is anything but simple).

St. Paul tells husbands and wives to be submissive to one another in love, reflecting the Church’s submission to Christ (Ephesians 5:24). We are neither female or male in the eyes of God (meaning, we are equal in our potential for salvation, and nobody will have to serve a man as a perpetual virgin in Heaven. By the way, I sincerely doubt that since faith is spiritual, we should be tempted to attain heaven out of earthly lust. And, what would heaven be like for a woman?)

In contrast, the Koran states that husbands are said to have divine right and total authority over their wives. It even sanctions beating women. (Sura 4:34) So I could say, just because there are “good” Muslim cultures that treat women better than other cultures, that doesn’t mean that the Koran or Islam is totally responsible for that.

Aisha, one of Muhammad’s wives, admonished: “O womenfolk, if you knew the rights that your husbands have over you, every one of you would wipe the dust from her husband’s feet with her face.” This right is absolute, and so applies if the husband were a morally depraved person and the wife is good. That is absurd.

 

[Karen10]

Part 2 of my response:

Although Islam supports the inheritance rights of women, men also receive twice as much inheritance as women (Sura 4:11), regardless of anything else that should be considered. The man can be rich and unmarried, and the woman can be widowed and struggling alone, but the man will receive twice as much, simply because he is a man. Does that kind of “justice” sound divine, or even intelligent? Again, this isn’t cultural at all–it is in the Koran. Catholicism teaches no such injustices.

As far as divorce, the only stipulation that the Koran specifies for a man to divorce his wife, is that they wait a suitable amount of time to make sure that the wife is not pregnant (Sura 65:1). Men can divorce easily, just by saying “I divorce you”, no matter whether their motivation is good or evil. The couple cannot be remarried unless the woman maries someone else and divorces him. This leads to the strange practice of “temporary marriages”, wherein a man will marry a woman for a night and divorce her immediately so that she can go back to her original husband and family. Does this really sound sensical or divinely-inspired to you?

According to Sura 4:128, “If a woman fears ill treatment or desertion on the part of her husband, it shall be no offense for them to seek a mutual agreement, for that is best.” This is not a call for agreement among two equal persons, though. Aisha said, “It concerns the woman whose husband does not want to keep her with him any longer, but wants to divorce her and marry some other lady, so she says to him, ‘Keep me and do not divorce me,and then marry another woman, and you may neither spend on me, nor sleep with me.’”

The Koran, and by extension, Islam, is wide open to misinterpretation, with no Church to rectify misunderstandings or to teach. Where teachings in the Koran are found to be self-contradictory, Islam tells us that “God just changes his mind.” But–Catholics acknowledge that Truth is absolute, and Truth never changes, and God is perfect Truth, and is always truthful, and there are no contradictions. God/Truth in Islam, is reduced to something much too simple, and this tends to cause rampant problems due to misinterpretation and not having complete Truth on your side. Logical reasoning, a gift from God for us to use for purposes of coming to know Him and which are a part of our very nature, is deeply frowned upon in Islam. The “Don’t question us” and the looming threat of “fatwa” from some person of authority if you do question, is an entrapment. The faulty assumption that Truth can change (if it can, then it never was the Truth!), is a cover-up. Some of Islam’s tenets actually came about in response to, *misunderstandings about Christianity, * even. The way one culture can progress while another culture’s interpretation of the Koran leads to a degenerative society, the way some focus on “jihad” and other Muslims claim that the religion is peaceful, *only shows Islam’s inadequacy at revealing Truth and God’s will.

Christianity has taught equality from the beginning. Some Christian cultures advanced through this revelation in their own time, and we continue to learn what equality means and does not mean. But if the point of this thread is to use Islam’s shaky “progressiveness” in order to sway hearts to Islam, it fails.*

 

[meedo]

Hello

"Islam lacks guidance in matters of the dignity of women as human beings, such that injustice is allowed to spread. "

**Mere statement **

"There was once a fire in 2002, in Mecca, at a girl’s school. Since the girls inside weren’t wearing certain required garments, they perished. Firefighters and police were actually battled by the muttawa (religious police), because the muttawa’s radical faith faultily determined for them, that it was better for the girls to die than to see them without their proper garments. This reflects not a faulty culture, but a faulty religion that does not provide adequate guidance. “”

**Yes i know thsi myth. It never happened. There is a proverb in Egypt that said " those who were too shy became dead"if you know any Egyptian u can ask about it .

This was a story of womens bath in the olden days that for a reason had fire in it . Some women ran naken outiside ( which is actually mandatory to do according to islam in this case and if youy stay inside then this is actually sort of forbidden suicide)

and some stayed inside and died . They were hesitant to go oiut naked and the fire trapped them . This is the truie story not the one you mentioned. There is alot of peopel making alot of myth about saudis .**

"Not all Muslims would have done what the muttawa did, but that morality should ever be so grossly misguided is evidence for some, that Islam lacks coherence that the Catholic Church does not. "

Actually a proper radical muslim who follows the Quran woudl have killed that Mutawah right away and allowed women naked to run . Mam you have no idea what you are talking about and what are the islamic ruling .

"Islam prides itself on its tenet that the simplest of people should be able to understand the Koran, and right from wrong (and, yet, actually impels everyone to study the Koran in Arabic, which not all Muslims can even do). "

Islam prides itself with the simplicity of its message. Not necessarily everybody can understand certain words of the Quran because its formal old arabic. And having the Quran in arabic is a mercy from Allah . as it is mandatory that the translation never ever become exact like the original. No more mistakes in Holy books mam . God promised the Quran to be preserved.

"This school fire wasn’t a cultural mistake; "

**Yes it was a myth , **

“this represents misjudgment. It shocks my Catholic mind that Muslims believe in the simplicity of truth, yet we see terrible these things happen as a direct result of this belief. Obviously, truth isn’t always simple (and God is anything but simple).”

Mere statement

“” reflecting the Church’s submission to Christ (Ephesians 5:24). We are neither female or male in the eyes of God (meaning, we are equal in our potential for salvation, and nobody will have to serve a man as a perpetual virgin in Heaven. By the way, I sincerely doubt that since faith is spiritual, we should be tempted to attain heaven out of earthly lust. And, what would heaven be like for a woman?)""

**women and men get what they want in heaven . Simple. Yes we believe in Heaven there is sex lust and there is quenching for food and drink lusts. Is that forbidden ? NO. As long as it is in the correct relationship. As long as God is the one who regulate this relationship. To be a virgin or not a virgin wouldnt really differ . God does whatever he wants and at the end just the mere look at Gods glorious face is the ultimate reward for muslims in heave. If you dont have additional fun in heaven in your faith then thats too bad. **

““In contrast, the Koran states that husbands are said to have divine right and total authority over their wives. It even sanctions beating women. (Sura 4:34) So I could say, just because there are “good” Muslim cultures that treat women better than other cultures, that doesn’t mean that the Koran or Islam is totally responsible for that.””

**
Teh Quran gives high right for the husband over his wife and gives high right for the lady over her husband. Simnply we follow the prophet example in how he lived by the Quran and he was the kindest to his wives. He would sue his own clothe and fix his own shoes . He was a simple human bieng . You probably didnt read any of the Quotes of the wives of the prophet in how he treated them . Probably you wouldnt even want to post it **