Muslims – Begotten Not Made

  • Thread starter Thread starter Augustine3
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Augustine3

Guest
Muslims object to God having a son because they affirm begetting is reserved for the animalistic process of reproduction. In other words sexual union.

Muslims also believe that Jesus was born without the mediation of an earthly father. Mary was a virgin. If that is the case why do I still hear Muslim apologists argue “God forbid that he should have a son because to beget means to have had a sexual union” when clearly that has been a case where a sexual union was not involved?
 
Augustine3 said:
Muslims object to God having a son because they affirm begetting is reserved for the animalistic process of reproduction. In other words sexual union.

Muslims also believe that Jesus was born without the mediation of an earthly father. Mary was a virgin. If that is the case why do I still hear Muslim apologists argue “God forbid that he should have a son because to beget means to have had a sexual union” when clearly that has been a case where a sexual union was not involved?
Click to expand...
Good question. But it makes my head:hypno:

The Quran is simply too vague to really diagnose what is supposed to be believed. 🤷 That said, I have no right to talk about the Quran really :o because I dont want to read it, nor dol I feel I need to read something that came after Christianity 😃

MJ
 
Well, that’s one of the reasons why muslims reject that teaching, but the word ‘beget’ doesn’t always have a sexual connotation. Paul says, in Colossians, that Jesus bore the fullness of God within him; that’s another reason why muslims cannot accept Jesus being divine. We don’t believe that God’s power can be contained within the universe, let alone in a man.
 
drac16 said:
Paul says, in Colossians, that Jesus bore the fullness of God within him; that’s another reason why muslims cannot accept Jesus being divine. We don’t believe that God’s power can be contained within the universe, let alone in a man.
Click to expand...
Muslims don’t believe God has the power to contain His fullness wherever He wants?
 
drac16 said:
Well, that’s one of the reasons why muslims reject that teaching, but the word ‘beget’ doesn’t always have a sexual connotation. Paul says, in Colossians, that Jesus bore the fullness of God within him; that’s another reason why muslims cannot accept Jesus being divine. We don’t believe that God’s power can be contained within the universe, let alone in a man.
Click to expand...
Can I ask you where in the Quran does it talk about Paul? Just asking because Im not sure. It will be good to have the Quran’s examination of Christian scriptures directly.

MJ
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
Muslims don’t believe God has the power to contain His fullness wherever He wants?
Click to expand...
His power cannot be contained. This is essentially the age-old question of “can God lift a rock so heavy that He can’t lift it?”. He can’t do that which by definition is impossible.
 
MartinJordan said:
Can I ask you where in the Quran does it talk about Paul? Just asking because Im not sure. It will be good to have the Quran’s examination of Christian scriptures directly.

MJ
Click to expand...
It doesn’t mention Paul specifically. I was quoting Colossions chapter 2 based on my own memory.
 
drac16 said:
Well, that’s one of the reasons why muslims reject that teaching, but the word ‘beget’ doesn’t always have a sexual connotation. Paul says, in Colossians, that Jesus bore the fullness of God within him; that’s another reason why muslims cannot accept Jesus being divine. We don’t believe that God’s power can be contained within the universe, let alone in a man.
Click to expand...
The fullness of God is in Jesus only by the unification of his human nature to his divine nature. The finite is joined and untied to the infinite, thus the finite is infinite as long as he remains united to the infinite.

That’s beside the point. My point was if Muslims believe Jesus was conceived outside the sexual union of man and woman then why don’t Muslim apologetics use this same principle and apply it to God begetting without being sexually active? We do Muslim debaters argue begetting is strictly an animal act?

You’re the first Muslim I’ve come across that admits begetting is not strictly reserved to an animal act. Even the great Ahmed Deedat declares begetting is strictly reserved to an animal act.
 
Sam_777 said:
😉 Probably Muhammed did not hear about him…
Click to expand...
The only reason I ask about Paul is apparently that he is instrumental according to what I see Muslims today write or speak about him so much that he has given misinformation about Jesus.

If that is true then the Quran should mention this. This is important because otherwise it is only supposition about Christian claims of Jesus divinity that Muslims doubt (naturally of course).

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
The only reason I ask about Paul is apparently that he is instrumental according to what I see Muslims today write or speak about him so much that he has given misinformation about Jesus.

If that is true then the Quran should mention this. This is important because otherwise it is only supposition about Christian claims of Jesus divinity that Muslims doubt (naturally of course).

MJ
Click to expand...
Muslims argue since it’s already mentioned in the Quran Christ did not die on the cross, it basically does Paul away with, since the core of Paul’s message is Christ died and rose from the dead.

Muslims hate St Paul because of Paul’s impact on the world. Paul is brilliant. I’m so moved and amazed at Paul every time of read his epistles; he truly is a theological genius.
 
drac16 said:
Well, that’s one of the reasons why muslims reject that teaching, but the word ‘beget’ doesn’t always have a sexual connotation. Paul says, in Colossians, that Jesus bore the fullness of God within him; that’s another reason why muslims cannot accept Jesus being divine. We don’t believe that God’s power can be contained within the universe, let alone in a man.
Click to expand...
Conversely, Christians believe it to be a miraculous thing, this containment of the fullness of God’s power and majesty within one man. By definition, a miracle is unexplainable by natural law, and incomprehensible to mere human intellect.
 
drac16 said:
His power cannot be contained. This is essentially the age-old question of “can God lift a rock so heavy that He can’t lift it?”. He can’t do that which by definition is impossible.
Click to expand...
Such as raise someone from the dead, or command the wind and the sea? God can do whatever God wishes to do, including becoming a man while retaining his glorious divinity.
 
It’s also interesting to note that the largest Religion in the world (Christianity) is a by product of God fooling people into thinking that Jesus actually did die on the cross.

That is, according to Islam.
 
dronald said:
It’s also interesting to note that the largest Religion in the world (Christianity) is a by product of God fooling people into thinking that Jesus actually did die on the cross.

That is, according to Islam.
Click to expand...
Interesting though that no one has ever claimed to have the body of Jesus on earth.

And the same with the Virgin Mary.
 
Porknpie said:
Interesting though that no one has ever claimed to have the body of Jesus on earth.

And the same with the Virgin Mary.
Click to expand...
Muslims believe Jesus was taken up into heaven at the time the scapegoat was used to look like Jesus on the cross.

As for the Blessed Virgin Mary…well they have an irreconcilable problem. We have kept relics of as many saints as possible. Early Christians did not dare to claim they had Mary’s relics because they knew they would be lying.
 
Porknpie said:
Interesting though that no one has ever claimed to have the body of Jesus on earth.

And the same with the Virgin Mary.
Click to expand...
Ahmadi muslims believe that Mother Mary is buried in Pakistan and have a grave for her there…

😃
 
drac16 said:
His power cannot be contained. This is essentially the age-old question of “can God lift a rock so heavy that He can’t lift it?”. He can’t do that which by definition is impossible.
Click to expand...
So you limit Allah then and His Greatness? 🤷
 
Augustine3 said:
Muslims object to God having a son because they affirm begetting is reserved for the animalistic process of reproduction. In other words sexual union. … ?
Click to expand...
Adam has been created without a mother and father. So parent of Adam is God?

İf God does not allow none child would born. Pregnant is by only man’s act. Does a man have a real act in fact? A man is only a cause to act of God. So God can create a child without a father but that not mean that Jesus is Son of God. Than all humanbeings are sons of God because in fact they come into being by God’s power.

God is divine and infinite with his all attributes. An infinite object does not divide in pieces. Did God create his Son? İf so than a creator can not be a god. Or did God divide in three parts? İf not, than what is it?

İf God acts and be seen in different forms than is there any mean to say there are three with same divine?

İf one of Three has a part from other divine nature than how did this happen? Or there were three originally?

Candidly ı can not understand.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top