Muslims – Question about Janah

[F_Ferdous]

With your deep understanding of Islam and familiarity with Christianity you should be spearheading efforts to bring about much needed changes in your community. That’s where the changes need to take place.

It has been said here a number of times that your views of Islam are not typical or representative. I would prefer to think that your views are representative of a small but growing number of enlightened Muslims who have emerged from the blind faith stage of Islam, where the faithful simply repeat memorized passages of the Koran in ancient Arabic and declare them beautiful. Many of them don’t even know Arabic, but this is their foundation of faith.

If you are not an isolated “enlightened Muslim” but indeed represent a new wave in the Islamic spectrum, it is your duty and responsibility to promote your views. Not here, because we already got the message.

I’m a college freshman turning sophomore. What do you want me to do, take over the United Nations and declare world peace? We’re doing our part in our community, you don’t need to tell us that. Sadly, I’m not Middle Eastern nor do I have any connections with members of the higher echelons of Saudi Arabian political parties. My voice won’t reach them, not yet. What they’re doing is wrong and anti-Islamic. Same goes for the terrorists and I already explained why. The Qur’an doesn’t preach hate and there is no Verse in the Qur’an “better left unread”. You just need to understand it better. And by “you” I don’t mean you but anyone who is reading it.

Christianity has the concept of the abrogation of Law, doesn’t it? Or do you guys still follow the Law of Moses and the Old Testament? Similarly, Islam has the concept of naskh where a previous revelation is abrogated by a newer one. All of these things are needed to be taken into account before declaring a verdict from the Qur’an.

seekersguidance.org/ans-blog/2011/11/01/understanding-the-hadith-i-was-ordered-to-fight-the-people-until-they-testify/

seekersguidance.org/ans-blog/2010/11/06/jihad-abrogation-in-the-quran-the-verse-of-the-sword/

 

[F_Ferdous]

Hi Ferdous. What is your point in putting up ten pages of Christians atrocities and war casualties?

To exhibit the hazards of cherry-picking.

 

[F_Ferdous]

I think we miss the whole point there. We have never said that there were no bad Christians. All we want to point out is that the killings that Muslims did were were inspired by the Quran and prophet Mohammad. We are not merely saying there were bad Muslims or terrorists. Yes, there are but we are more interested in what made them do the killing. And for that there are many Quranic verses which the Muslims (or whom you called terrorists) cited as the justification of what they did. The verses on killing of infidels, the rewards for martyrs and the Islamic end times objective.

Correction. The killings were inspired by misguided “Muslim” political figures using the religion as a weapon to fulfill their own, ulterior motives that have nothing to do with Islam.

I have already explained the Qur’anic Verses and the sayings of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and how they don’t fall into context. Please read a few Tafsirs from reputable scholars for more, if you’re really interested.

I’ll explain the End Times theory as soon as I can manage some time. As you may know by now, I also have college to take care of.

 

[F_Ferdous]

Hello Fredous, I am curious - I assume Janah is the equivalent of the Christian ‘eternal heaven’ and there is also a Islamic ‘eternal hell’ (for sinners?), but is there anything equivalent to purgatory? I mean, where do people who are not good enough for heaven or bad enough for hell, go after death? Thanks.

I like this question. I’ll answer this in a while, insha’Allah. For the time being, I believe Jagasaki has made the basic point: there is no solid concept of Purgatory in Islam. I’ll elucidate. First, I have a class to attend right now. Peace.

 

[Ontheway]

I’m a college freshman turning sophomore. What do you want me to do, take over the United Nations and declare world peace? We’re doing our part in our community, you don’t need to tell us that. Sadly, I’m not Middle Eastern nor do I have any connections with members of the higher echelons of Saudi Arabian political parties. My voice won’t reach them, not yet. What they’re doing is wrong and anti-Islamic. Same goes for the terrorists and I already explained why. The Qur’an doesn’t preach hate and there is no Verse in the Qur’an “better left unread”. You just need to understand it better. And by “you” I don’t mean you but anyone who is reading it.

Christianity has the concept of the abrogation of Law, doesn’t it? Or do you guys still follow the Law of Moses and the Old Testament? Similarly, Islam has the concept of naskh where a previous revelation is abrogated by a newer one. All of these things are needed to be taken into account before declaring a verdict from the Qur’an.

seekersguidance.org/ans-blog/2011/11/01/understanding-the-hadith-i-was-ordered-to-fight-the-people-until-they-testify/

seekersguidance.org/ans-blog/2010/11/06/jihad-abrogation-in-the-quran-the-verse-of-the-sword/

Ferdous,

You have managed to find a Catholic discussion forum, so I would think that finding an Islamic one would be just as easy. If you have difficulties with this, I can look it up for you.

What I am suggesting is that your arguments are so persuasive that they would surely benefit at least some people on the Sunni forums. No need to conquer the world; just spread the word, your version of Islam among those of the faithful who would benefit from it the most. You might become a positive force for change.

In regard to the abrogation question, it doesn’t apply to us the way it does to you or the Jews. Christianity is not a legal system. To quote Thomas Merton;

“Christianity is …Christ Himself, living in those whom He has united to Himself in one Mystical Body…When the Risen Christ founded His Church and commanded His Apostles to preach to all nations, He was offering mankind its only hope of true peace.”

 

[openmind77]

…

Do you have any reason why this idea of sex and rivers flowing of wine without getting drunk, and having all your wishes granted is not evident throughout any Jewish or Christian Scriptures, but rather says the opposite?

What do you think of Jesus’s claim that says the opposite?

As Jesus said there are many mansions in the Father’s house. Just because the Church (or the Jewish or Christian scriptures) do not know about the nature of these mansions, it does not mean other people do not.

Actually Ferdous’s description of the Islamic heaven reminds me a lot of the description of the travels in the astral world by Robert Monroe (see amazon.com/Journeys-Out-Body-Robert-Monroe/dp/0385008619). He describes people having free sex in the astral world as well as being able to build castles or houses (basically whatever they wanted). I would not call the astral world heaven, but many people have written about it.

Of course most Catholics will say Monroe was hallucinating (or lying) because the Church does not know about the astral world. But I suggest you at least read the book before you make that judgement. BTW be warned that the book is not easy to read, it can be tedious (but if you are used to wading through these forums, it may be a piece of cake for you).

 

[MissyB786]

Ah, okay. Thank you for your reply, it’s much appreciated.

Would you prefer a Heaven where one has all their lusts and desires fulfilled, or a Heaven where one spends an eternity worshiping God? The Bible only speaks of a place where we are made new and are living with God in eternal happiness praising Him.

Do you have any reason that none of the Prophets prior to Muhammad talked about sexual pleasures in Heaven but rather Jesus states: “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” Matthew 22:30

Does enjoying marital bliss prevent u from worshiping God. I have a greek orthodox friend who explained to me that in Christianity they believe that it will be living in bliss with God and there will be no marriage in heaven. In the Quran it says enter Heaven with ur spouse.

Why was Eve created for Adam, to give him companionship. God understands us better than we do, as God created us, so it only makes sense when we do go to Heaven we enter with our spouses. Adam and Eve return to Heaven together to live the rest of eternity together, so why shouln’t the rest of mankind enter heaven with their spouses.

With regards to worship:
{Surely those who believe and do righteous deeds their Lord will guide them aright because of their faith. Rivers shall flow beneath them in the Gardens of Bliss. Their cry in it will be “Glory be to You, Our Lord”, and their greeting: “Peace” and their cry will always end with “All praise be to Allah, the Lord of the entire Universe”} (Yunus, 10:9-10)

{All praise be to Allah to Whom belongs all that is in the heavens and that is in the earth, and all praise be to Him in the World to Come (the Hereafter)} (Saba, 34:1)

{They shall enter the everlasting Gardens, shall be adorned with bracelets of gold and with pearls, and their apparel therein shall be silk. They will say: “All praise be to Allah who has taken away all sorrow from us. Surely our Lord is Most Forgiving, Most Appreciative; (the Lord) Who out of His Bounty has made us dwell in an abode wherein no toil, nor fatigue affects us.”}

This is evidence even in Heaven, we will continue to worship God.

“Their utensils will be of gold, their perspiration will smell like musk; everyone of them will have two wives; the marrow of the bones of the wives’ legs will be seen through the flesh out of excessive beauty. They (i.e., the people of Jannah) will neither have difference, nor enmity (hatred) amongst themselves; their hearts will be as if one heart, and they will be glorifying Allah in the morning and in the afternoon.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]. ****

"Allah, the Exalted, has said: ‘I have prepared for my righteous slaves what no eye has seen, no ear has heard, and the mind of no man has conceived.’ If you wish, recite: ‘No person knows what is kept hidden for them of joy as a reward for what they used to do.’ " [Al-Bukhari and Muslim, the ayah recited is Al-Qur’an 32:17]
**personally I think the description of heaven its just in terms for mankind to fulfil his basic needs to companionship, a home, a spouse, wealth- but then this ayah shows its something we cannot even conceive with our minds so the descriptions are just basic terms for mankind mind to understand.
**

Truly, the muttaqun (the pious and righteous persons) will be amidst Gardens and water-springs (Jannah). (It will be said to them): ‘Enter therein (Jannah), in peace and security.’ And We shall remove from their breasts any deep feeling of bitterness (that they may have). (So they will be like) brothers facing each other on thrones. No sense of fatigue shall touch them, nor shall they (ever) be asked to leave it."[Al-Qur’an 15:45-48]
**This is evidence no jealousy will exist, so even if there are Virgin maidens, we women will not be jealous as we are given higher status above them, more beautiful, more honorable. Our husband will look at our beauty and our beauty will continue to increase. It is this world, also the devil that causes us to have bitterness and jealousy but in Heaven, we won’t have any so u won’t care. **

There are lots more, but basically to sum up, yes u will be married in heaven, otherwise what was the point of creating Eve, because Adam needed companionship and so he will continue to get that in heaven. We will continue to worship God. If anyone has ever fallen in love, it’s the best thing in the world and I know meeting God will be an infinity times better than that, so can’t wait.

 

[Augustine3]

Does enjoying marital bliss prevent u from worshiping God.

Our marital bliss is with the Holy Trinity. Heaven for us is a spiritual marriage with God himself rather than his creatures…bet that’s a shock to you!

 

[Augustine3]

Hello Fredous, I am curious - I assume Janah is the equivalent of the Christian ‘eternal heaven’ and there is also a Islamic ‘eternal hell’ (for sinners?), but is there anything equivalent to purgatory? I mean, where do people who are not good enough for heaven or bad enough for hell, go after death? Thanks.

Fredous can expand on this (and correct me if I’m wrong), I believe the equivalent of purgatory in Islam is the righteous who have committed serious sins are sent to hell temporarily to pay for their sins before their entrance into heaven.

 

[Reuben_J]

Our marital bliss is with the Holy Trinity. Heaven for us is a spiritual marriage with God himself rather than his creatures…bet that’s a shock to you!

Moreover they are not our physical bodies. Even though we will rise bodily, they are our souls and souls are spirit. Spirit does not have carnal desire but only thing spiritual. Worship is spiritual as does God is which we as spirit can see face to face.

 

[Reuben_J]

Correction. The killings were inspired by misguided “Muslim” political figures using the religion as a weapon to fulfill their own, ulterior motives that have nothing to do with Islam.

I have already explained the Qur’anic Verses and the sayings of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and how thehope thatt fall into context. Please read a few Tafspolitical easetable scholars for more, if you’re really interested.

I’ll explain the End Times theory as soon as I can manage some time. As you may know by now, I also have college to take care of.

As have been mentioned in another thread, Mohammad beheaded some eight hundreds Jews prisoners of war and expelled the rest except for the women and children who were taken as slaves. Their properties were confiscated. The result was an establishment of a nation of Islam and the elimination of the Jews from Medina. I hope that was not an action of a misguided ‘Muslim’ political figure.

 

[dronald]

Does enjoying marital bliss prevent u from worshiping God. I have a greek orthodox friend who explained to me that in Christianity they believe that it will be living in bliss with God and there will be no marriage in heaven. In the Quran it says enter Heaven with ur spouse.

Why was Eve created for Adam, to give him companionship. God understands us better than we do, as God created us, so it only makes sense when we do go to Heaven we enter with our spouses. Adam and Eve return to Heaven together to live the rest of eternity together, so why shouln’t the rest of mankind enter heaven with their spouses.

With regards to worship:
{Surely those who believe and do righteous deeds their Lord will guide them aright because of their faith. Rivers shall flow beneath them in the Gardens of Bliss. Their cry in it will be “Glory be to You, Our Lord”, and their greeting: “Peace” and their cry will always end with “All praise be to Allah, the Lord of the entire Universe”} (Yunus, 10:9-10)

{All praise be to Allah to Whom belongs all that is in the heavens and that is in the earth, and all praise be to Him in the World to Come (the Hereafter)} (Saba, 34:1)

{They shall enter the everlasting Gardens, shall be adorned with bracelets of gold and with pearls, and their apparel therein shall be silk. They will say: “All praise be to Allah who has taken away all sorrow from us. Surely our Lord is Most Forgiving, Most Appreciative; (the Lord) Who out of His Bounty has made us dwell in an abode wherein no toil, nor fatigue affects us.”}

This is evidence even in Heaven, we will continue to worship God.

“Their utensils will be of gold, their perspiration will smell like musk; everyone of them will have two wives; the marrow of the bones of the wives’ legs will be seen through the flesh out of excessive beauty. They (i.e., the people of Jannah) will neither have difference, nor enmity (hatred) amongst themselves; their hearts will be as if one heart, and they will be glorifying Allah in the morning and in the afternoon.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]. ****

"Allah, the Exalted, has said: ‘I have prepared for my righteous slaves what no eye has seen, no ear has heard, and the mind of no man has conceived.’ If you wish, recite: ‘No person knows what is kept hidden for them of joy as a reward for what they used to do.’ " [Al-Bukhari and Muslim, the ayah recited is Al-Qur’an 32:17]
**personally I think the description of heaven its just in terms for mankind to fulfil his basic needs to companionship, a home, a spouse, wealth- but then this ayah shows its something we cannot even conceive with our minds so the descriptions are just basic terms for mankind mind to understand.
**

Truly, the muttaqun (the pious and righteous persons) will be amidst Gardens and water-springs (Jannah). (It will be said to them): ‘Enter therein (Jannah), in peace and security.’ And We shall remove from their breasts any deep feeling of bitterness (that they may have). (So they will be like) brothers facing each other on thrones. No sense of fatigue shall touch them, nor shall they (ever) be asked to leave it."[Al-Qur’an 15:45-48]
**This is evidence no jealousy will exist, so even if there are Virgin maidens, we women will not be jealous as we are given higher status above them, more beautiful, more honorable. Our husband will look at our beauty and our beauty will continue to increase. It is this world, also the devil that causes us to have bitterness and jealousy but in Heaven, we won’t have any so u won’t care. **

There are lots more, but basically to sum up, yes u will be married in heaven, otherwise what was the point of creating Eve, because Adam needed companionship and so he will continue to get that in heaven. We will continue to worship God. If anyone has ever fallen in love, it’s the best thing in the world and I know meeting God will be an infinity times better than that, so can’t wait.

I didn’t realize this was a belief in Christianity about Adam and Eve. Can you show me in the Bible where it says that Adam is married to Eve in Heaven right now and can potentially be having sex with her?

Thanks.

If you can’t do that then you avoided my question and cannot answer why no Prophet of God, or Jesus ever said that marriage and sex will happen in Heaven. In fact Jesus said the exact opposite.

 

[MartinJordan]

To exhibit the hazards of cherry-picking.

Ferdous, you still haven’t owned up to Luke 19:27. Don’t sweep this scripture under the rug!

I’m waiting…,

MJ

 

[F_Ferdous]

Hello Fredous, I am curious - I assume Janah is the equivalent of the Christian ‘eternal heaven’ and there is also a Islamic ‘eternal hell’ (for sinners?), but is there anything equivalent to purgatory? I mean, where do people who are not good enough for heaven or bad enough for hell, go after death? Thanks.

Yes, Jannah is Heaven and Jahannum is Hell.

Jannah is an eternal place for Muslims which is the Islamic conception of paradise. The Arabic word “Jannah” is a shortened version meaning simply “Garden”. According to Islamic eschatology, after death, one will reside in the grave until the appointed resurrection on Yawm al-Qiyāmah (the Day of Judgment). Muslims believe that the treatment of the individual in the life of the grave will be according to his or her deeds in the worldly life. Jannah is often compared to Christian concepts of Heaven. According to Muslim belief, everything one longs for in this world will be there in Paradise.
Paradise itself is commonly described in the Qur’an. The highest level of Paradise is Jannatul Ferdous (فردوس) or Ad’n (Eden), which is where the prophets, the saints, the martyrs and the most truthful and pious people will dwell with their families, provided they too were admitted into Jannah. In contrast to Jannah, the words Jahannam and Nār are used to refer to the concept of Hell.

In Jannah, everyone will be immortal at thirty-three years of age. They shall be devoid of emotions such as sorrow, pain, anger, guilt and jealousy. Inhabitants of Jannah will rejoice in the company of their parents, spouses, and children, given that they too made it into Heaven — conversing and recalling the past.

The Disciples of the Prophet (pbuh) have described the food in Jannah as as never rotting and so sweet it will make any person on earth live without feeling hunger forever. The dwellings for inhabitants will be pleasant, with lofty gardens, shady valleys, fountains scented with camphor or ginger; rivers of water, milk, honey and Sharabun Tahoora (pure drink); delicious fruits of all seasons without thorns; One day in paradise is considered equal to a thousand years on earth. Palaces are made from bricks of gold, silver, pearls, among other things. Traditions also note the presence of horses and camels of “dazzling whiteness”, along with other creatures. Large trees are described, mountains made of musk, between which rivers flow in valleys of pearl and ruby.

The names of the key four rivers in Jannah are Saihan (Syr Darya), Jaihan (Amu Darya), Furat (Euphrates) and Nil (Nile). Salsabil is the name of a spring that is the source of the rivers of Rahma (mercy) and Al-Kawthar (abundance). Sidrat al-Muntaha is a Lote tree that marks the end of the seventh heaven, the boundary where no creation can pass.

In spite of the goodly dwellings given to the inhabitants of paradise, the approval of God and nearness to Him is considered greater. According to the Qur’an, God will bring the elect near to his throne (‘Arsh), a day on which “some faces shall be shining in contemplation of their Lord.” The vision of God is regarded as the greatest of all rewards, surpassing all other joys and those chosen to be in His Company will be the ones superior to all.

Jahannum on the other hand is the Islamic equivalent of Hell: a fearsome place guarded by angels who shall torture its inhabitants for the time assigned. Some shall enter Jahannum for all eternity while others will be allocated a certain amount of time after which they shall be set free to enter Jannah – God shall personally salvage them.

Jahannum has seven gates, Jannah has eight. Each gate of Jahannum is assigned for a specific class of sinners ranging from the tyrants and oppressors to polytheists and hypocrites. Hypocrites are categorized as the worst of all sinners. They shall be in the lowest depths of Hell. The fire of Hell is to be fueled by the bodies of men, women and stones but there is a special circle of Hell — Zamhareer — a special place in Hell which burns its inhabitants with its extreme cold just as it burns them with its heat. It was also stated by Mujaahid and Muqaatil that it is the peak of coldness.

 

[F_Ferdous]

As have been mentioned in another thread, Mohammad beheaded some eight hundreds Jews prisoners of war and expelled the rest except for the women and children who were taken as slaves. Their properties were confiscated. The result was an establishment of a nation of Islam and the elimination of the Jews from Medina. I hope that was not an action of a misguided ‘Muslim’ political figure.

And do you know what the Jews did first?

 

[F_Ferdous]

…bet that’s a shock to you!

How so? I’m not shocked in the least bit.

 

[F_Ferdous]

Ferdous,

You have managed to find a Catholic discussion forum, so I would think that finding an Islamic one would be just as easy. If you have difficulties with this, I can look it up for you.

What I am suggesting is that your arguments are so persuasive that they would surely benefit at least some people on the Sunni forums. No need to conquer the world; just spread the word, your version of Islam among those of the faithful who would benefit from it the most. You might become a positive force for change.

In regard to the abrogation question, it doesn’t apply to us the way it does to you or the Jews. Christianity is not a legal system. To quote Thomas Merton;

“Christianity is …Christ Himself, living in those whom He has united to Himself in one Mystical Body…When the Risen Christ founded His Church and commanded His Apostles to preach to all nations, He was offering mankind its only hope of true peace.”

A true religion of God should have the concept of a legal system to guide its followers how to conduct their lives in practicality when dealing with financial matters, judicial matters, marital conduct, etc. At least Judaism covers up that front as does Islam. Why have the Christians abandoned the Law?

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

The topic please

 

[MartinJordan]

A true religion of God should have the concept of a legal system to guide its followers how to conduct their lives in practicality when dealing with financial matters, judicial matters, marital conduct, etc. At least Judaism covers up that front as does Islam. Why have the Christians abandoned the Law?

Nope.

Actually true religion is:

Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

As Christians are called be in the World but not of the World. No subjugation to be a free people. Our destination is our Heavenly home.

Keep in mind Abraham was found righteous even before Circumcision (The Law).

MJ

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

The topic please!