Muslims And Allah

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Muslims believe the word Allah was used by Jesus when he hung on the cross. The Bible records that Jesus said “Eli Eli lama sabachthani”, but you say Jesus really cried out to Allah and said “Allah, Allah lama sabachthani” My question is: Would you please explain why you would use this argument when you don’t believe Jesus ever hung on the cross? And second, since Jesus was quoting Ps 22:1 on the cross, isn’t rather unlikely that both the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament are wrong using Eli, a Hebrew word, rather than Allah, an arab word?
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace
Muslims believe the word Allah was used by Jesus …
We beleive Jesus (pbuh) did not die on the Cross . It does not matter if he uttered the word Allah in his lifetime in this world , he worshipped Allah , prayed to Allah …that’s for sure 🙂

Like us , Jesus (pbuh) also had a God…that’s the important point. In which language Jesus (pbuh) spoke or called God does not matter for our salvation.
 
Muslims believe the word Allah was used by Jesus when he hung on the cross. The Bible records that Jesus said “Eli Eli lama sabachthani”, but you say Jesus really cried out to Allah and said “Allah, Allah lama sabachthani” My question is: Would you please explain why you would use this argument when you don’t believe Jesus ever hung on the cross? And second, since Jesus was quoting Ps 22:1 on the cross,
A good point indeed, I personally believe that Jesus was quoting “Psalm 22:1”.
 
Since Arabic and Hebrew are both Semitic languages, it’s obvious that “El” and “Allah” are cognates.
 
Except that He was not speaking Hebrew; He was speaking Aramaic. Still a Semitic language, but as a matter of historical accuracy and connection to today’s (Neo-)Aramaic-speaking Christians, I think it is an important distinction.

Muslim Woman: If you believe Jesus was Muslim (and as far as I can tell, that is what Muslims believe), then why does it not matter what language He prayed in, but YOU have to pray in Arabic? Jesus is “just” a messenger, right? Shouldn’t He have to follow the same rules as every other Muslim, according to the Islamic idea?

It seems to me either of these are reasonable answers to this:
  1. Jesus was not a Muslim (I know, I know, Christians…hold your tongues, please! :p)
  2. Arabic is of no special relevance to God/Allah, and so therefore some dimensions of Islam are highly suspect (Muslims should not have pray in Arabic, Arabization programs are evil, if Muhammad was wrong about making the compulsory prayers only in Arabic what else might he have been wrong about, etc).
 
What do you mean Sam he was quoting Psalm 22:1? I don`t really understand what you mean by that.
Hi Benjamin,

Some Muslims claim that God had forsaken Jesus when Jesus wanted God because he is no more than a prophet to Him, and some of them claim that if Jesus was divine then He didn’t need to say that.
 
Hi Benjamin,

Some Muslims claim that God had forsaken Jesus when Jesus wanted God because he is no more than a prophet to Him, and some of them claim that if Jesus was divine then He didn’t need to say that.
Hey Sam

yeah I know what Muslims claim but I was just curious, what did you mean when you said Jesus was quoting from Psalms. Did you mean He was litterly quoting something from top of His head when He was suffering on the cross?
 
Hey Sam

yeah I know what Muslims claim but I was just curious, what did you mean when you said Jesus was quoting from Psalms. Did you mean He was litterly quoting something from top of His head when He was suffering on the cross?
Of course not, he was reminding the Jews who crucified him about that prophecy in Psalm 22 and how its being fulfilled.
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

We beleive Jesus (pbuh) did not die on the Cross . It does not matter if he uttered the word Allah in his lifetime in this world , he worshipped Allah , prayed to Allah …that’s for sure 🙂

Like us , Jesus (pbuh) also had a God…that’s the important point. In which language Jesus (pbuh) spoke or called God does not matter for our salvation.
Thank you for your opinion but did you answer the question. and are you saying 500 people are just telling a lie
 
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** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **
…Muslim Woman: If you believe Jesus was Muslim (and as far as I can tell, that is what Muslims believe), then why does it not matter what language He prayed in,.
because after him , the last Prophet came & taught us how to pray 😃

when Jesus (pbuh) came , it was a must for beleivers to accept him as a Prophet & follow the commands as those came from God Almigthy. Just like that , Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was given the holy book and this book is the final one from God and for all & must be followed till the Last Day.

Belivers must recite in daily prayers from Quran but we are allowed to offer dua/supplication in our mother tongue.
 
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

because after him , the last Prophet came & taught us how to pray 😃

when Jesus (pbuh) came , it was a must for beleivers to accept him as a Prophet & follow the commands as those came from God Almigthy. Just like that , Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was given the holy book and this book is the final one from God and for all & must be followed till the Last Day.

Belivers must recite in daily prayers from Quran but we are allowed to offer dua/supplication in our mother tongue.
Woman lets pray
Code:
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not
into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen.
 
Muslims believe the word Allah was used by Jesus when he hung on the cross. The Bible records that Jesus said “Eli Eli lama sabachthani”, but you say Jesus really cried out to Allah and said “Allah, Allah lama sabachthani” My question is: Would you please explain why you would use this argument when you don’t believe Jesus ever hung on the cross? And second, since Jesus was quoting Ps 22:1 on the cross, isn’t rather unlikely that both the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament are wrong using Eli, a Hebrew word, rather than Allah, an arab word?
Alaha

Alaha is the **Aramaic **word meaning “God”. Alaha (ܐܠܗܐ in Syriac script) means the One God transliterated from the Aramaic language. The Arabic الله Allah was derived from the Syriac term for God. **Both terms apply to the God of Abraham **(ܐܒܪܗܡ in Syriac script) and the Prophets (ܐܢܒܝܐ in Syriac script) that followed.

(Adapted from wikimedia, under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License)

mshikhani.pbwiki.com/Alaha

**We don’t believe that Jesus was ever on the cross. **

Arabic developed same time as hebrew began to develop through the imigration of Ishmael to arabia. Arabic influenced and was influenced by other languages in the area including hebrew and aramaic.
 
Muslim Woman: If you believe Jesus was Muslim (and as far as I can tell, that is what Muslims believe), then why does it not matter what language He prayed in, but YOU have to pray in Arabic? Jesus is “just” a messenger, right? Shouldn’t He have to follow the same rules as every other Muslim, according to the Islamic idea?

**It doesnt atter what language Jesus prayed in. We pray in arabic because this is the language of our revelation. **

Arabic is of no special relevance to God/Allah,
He wouldnt have revealed his sacred book in it if it wasn’t

Muslims should not have pray in Arabic, Arabization programs are evil, if Muhammad was wrong about making the compulsory prayers only in Arabic what else might he have been wrong about, etc.

Muhammed taught us to pray and recise as he was ordered. We pray and recite in arabic because it is our language and the language of revelations and the language of the forefathers of our faith. It is pathetic to say what you have said while the interet is filled with people begging to learn aramaic and hebrew in order to try to understand the language of their revelation directly without the barriers of translation.

I keep reading all the time this phrase ‘’ which bible version has the most accurate translation of the original text?’'

I think that in their hearts Chrisians would wish they could know the language that Jesus prayed in .
 
Alaha

Alaha is the **Aramaic **word meaning “God”. Alaha (ܐܠܗܐ in Syriac script) means the One God transliterated from the Aramaic language. The Arabic الله Allah was derived from the Syriac term for God. **Both terms apply to the God of Abraham **(ܐܒܪܗܡ in Syriac script) and the Prophets (ܐܢܒܝܐ in Syriac script) that followed.

(Adapted from wikimedia, under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License)

mshikhani.pbwiki.com/Alaha

**We don’t believe that Jesus was ever on the cross. **

Arabic developed same time as hebrew began to develop through the imigration of Ishmael to arabia. Arabic influenced and was influenced by other languages in the area including hebrew and aramaic.
believe me the day will come when you will believe that Our Lord was on a croos and did die for your sins may the one true GOD bless you
 
Alaha

Alaha is the **Aramaic **word meaning “God”. Alaha (ܐܠܗܐ in Syriac script) means the One God transliterated from the Aramaic language. The Arabic الله Allah was derived from the Syriac term for God. **Both terms apply to the God of Abraham **(ܐܒܪܗܡ in Syriac script) and the Prophets (ܐܢܒܝܐ in Syriac script) that followed.

(Adapted from wikimedia, under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License)

mshikhani.pbwiki.com/Alaha

**We don’t believe that Jesus was ever on the cross. **

Arabic developed same time as hebrew began to develop through the imigration of Ishmael to arabia. Arabic influenced and was influenced by other languages in the area including hebrew and aramaic.
Allah was the name of the principal though not the only deity in pre-Islamic pagan Mecca. He stood supreme over and above all the other gods just as the Ka’ba was pre eminent among the other sanctuaries - also called Ka’ba(s) - of Arabia. He was Lord of Mecca.

In reality, Allah is NOT the God of Israel, but the PERSONAL NAME of the ‘divine spirit’ that according to the beliefs of the pagan Arabs,RESIDED in the Black Stone meteorite - embedded in the wall of the Ka’ba - that was VENERATED by the pagan Arabians long before Muhammad and his Quran.

The Allah of pagan Arabia was only the NAME (not a TITLE) of the supreme god at the head of their Pantheon of gods and goddesses similar to Jove/ Jupiter or Zeus in the pantheons of the gods of the Romans and the Greeks.

Just as Jove and Zeus were NOT the One and Only God of Israel,
neither was Allah.

By understanding this most fundamental of facts regarding the Trinity of: Muhammad, Quran and Allah, everything which is otherwise so perplexing, contradictory, utterly incompatible with the Bible in Time and Space and totally incomprehensible about the Quran becomes CRYSTAL CLEAR.
 
Allah was the name of the principal though not the only deity in pre-Islamic pagan Mecca. He stood supreme over and above all the other gods just as the Ka’ba was pre eminent among the other sanctuaries - also called Ka’ba(s) - of Arabia. He was Lord of Mecca.

That is half true and half false. The arabs used to worship Allah , the God of abraham alone and the Kaba was his house alone after ishmael untill a wealthy arab liked some idols from palestine ad imported them to mecca and persuaded the arabs gradually to worshiip them along side Allah as underservants of Allah in which you have to give the sacrifices so they would be the intercessor between them and Allah. Before this incident and after islam came and corrected this issue, Allah was worshipped alone and the kaba was his house alone . He was worshipped as the God of Ishmael ( the arabs direct father ) and abraham

In reality, Allah is NOT the God of Israel, but the PERSONAL NAME of the ‘divine spirit’ that according to the beliefs of the pagan Arabs,RESIDED in the Black Stone meteorite - embedded in the wall of the Ka’ba - that was VENERATED by the pagan Arabians long before Muhammad and his Quran.

false Allah is the God of Abraham and thus the God of Israel. The difference is that his name is different in arabic and araaic than in hebrew. As for the rest of your paragraph , it is as usual as expected from Christians, wishful thinking and historical manipulation.

The Allah of pagan Arabia was only the NAME (not a TITLE) of the supreme god at the head of their Pantheon of gods and goddesses similar to Jove/ Jupiter or Zeus in the pantheons of the gods of the Romans and the Greeks.

That is true . The word Allah is not a title. It is a name . Arabs at one point in their history imported idols from palestine sadly corrupting the Ishmaelite monothiesm that he left them and also tarnishing the kaba with idols.

Just as Jove and Zeus were NOT the One and Only God of Israel,
neither was Allah.

By understanding this most fundamental of facts regarding the Trinity of: Muhammad, Quran and Allah, everything which is otherwise so perplexing, contradictory, utterly incompatible with the Bible in Time and Space and totally incomprehensible about the Quran becomes CRYSTAL CLEAR.

. Idol-worshippers or polytheists. Most of the Arabs were idolaters. They worshipped numerous idols and each tribe had its own idol or idols and fetishes. **They had turned the Kaaba in Makkah, which according to tradition, had been built by the Prophet Abraham and his son, Ismael, and was dedicated by them to the service of One God, **into a heathen pantheon housing 360 idols of stone and wood.
imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=4452

**Idolatry was introduced into Arabia by 'Amr ibn Luhay, who brought the idol, Hubal from Mesopotamia (Iraq) and placed it inside the Ka’bah. **Later a large wooden dove was also placed inside the Ka’bah and the inside walls of the Ka’bah were also covered with paintings of the Prophets including a picture of 'Eesaa (Jesus) and his mother. Eventually over 360 idols were placed around the Ka’bah as well as altars for slaughtering animals to the idols. During the annual fairs of 'Ukaadh, poetry competitions were held and the seven most outstanding odes were etched in gold and hung inside the Ka’bah.

tohajj.com/eng/Display.asp?f=hu200001

Prophet Ibraaheem (Abraham) was commanded by Allah to leave his second wife, Haajar (Eng. Hagar), and their newly born son, Ismaa’eel (Ishmael), alone in the un-inhabited and barren valley of Bakkah (also known as Makkah). However, he used to return to visit them periodically. After Prophet Ibraaheem left them, their supplies ran out and Hagar went in search of water. She left the baby, Ismaa’eel, in the valley and she ran between the hills of Safaa and Marwah trying to see if there were any oasis nearby or if any travelers were in the area. As Allah willed it, a spring started bubbling forth from the sand near the feet of baby Ismaa’eel. This spring became known as Zamzam and eventually became a well.

**During one of his visits, Prophet Ibraaheem and his son, Ismaa’eel were commanded by Allah to lay the foundations of the first house built expressly for the worship of Allah which became known as the Ka’bah. In subsequent visits they completed the building of the Ka’bah. **
Allah described the Ka’bah and its building in the Qur’an as follows: And (remember) when we prepared for Ibraaheem the place for the (holy) House saying: Make nothing as My partner and purify My House for those who walk around it and those who stand, bow and make prostration before it. (22:26) Lo! The first house (of worship) founded for mankind was that at Bakkah; a blessing and guidance for all people. (3:96) And remember when Ibraaheem and Ismaa’eel laid the foundation of the House (of worship. (2:127)

In order to make a specific point as the starting point for circling the Ka’bah, Prophet Ibraaheem placed a special stone in its eastern corner. This stone, according to the Prophet Muhammad ( صلى الله عليه وسلم )'s explanation, was originally shining white in color when it was brought down from Paradise, however due to the sins of man it changed to its present color of dull black, hence its name, al-Hajar al-Aswad (the Black Stone).
 
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meedo:
There is no mention in the Bible whatsover about Abraham doing all you stated in the kabba at mekka… but I suppose you already knew that… and only stating koran and islamic teachings.

In the whole Bible, no association is ever made between Abraham, Ishmael and the Arabs. The Bible only mentions the Ishmaelites who lived near or about what are Jordan and the Sinai of modern times but never associated them with the interior of the Arabian Peninsula, one thousand miles away.

No Arab or any historian on earth can show such an association based on authentic written, oral or documented history. This association was made deliberately by mohamad to give the Arabs and himself, an ancestry worthy of a new religion in imitation of that of the Jews and Christians.

In the koran, there is no mention of his land of nativity nor of his trials and tribulations as he travelled to Canaan and Egypt;

There is no mention of his wife Sarah at all, or the details of their visitation by the messengers of God, nor the reasons of the family strife between Sarah and Hagar and their children.

Well it makes sence that Abraham lived 2500 years before mohamads time and the koran so all Biblical accounts are erased and new ones are created for mohamads new found religion…

Genesis 12:"
  1. And the Lord had said to Abram, Get out from your country, and from your family, and from your father’s house, to a land that I will show you;
  2. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing;
  3. And I will bless those who bless you, and curse him who curses you; and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.
  4. So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken to him; and Lot went with him; and Abram was seventy five years old when he departed from Haran"
Genesis 17"
  1. And when Abram was ninety nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said to him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be perfect.
  2. And I will make my covenant between me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.
  3. And Abram fell on his face; and God talked with him, saying,
  4. As for me, behold, my covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.
  5. Neither shall your name any more be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made you.
  6. And I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come out of you.
  7. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your seed after you in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God to you, and to your seed after you.
  8. And I will give to you, and to your seed after you, the land where you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
  9. And God said to Abraham, You shall keep my covenant therefore, you, and your seed after you in their generations.
  10. This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your seed after you; Every male child among you shall be circumcised.
  11. And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you.
  12. And he who is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every male child in your generations, he who is born in the house, or bought with money from any stranger, who is not of your seed.
  13. He who is born in your house, and he who is bought with your money, must be circumcised; and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant"
 
There is no mention in the Bible whatsover about Abraham doing all you stated in the kabba at mekka… but I suppose you already knew that… and only stating koran and islamic teachings.

In the whole Bible, no association is ever made between Abraham, Ishmael and the Arabs. The Bible only mentions the Ishmaelites who lived near or about what are Jordan and the Sinai of modern times but never associated them with the interior of the Arabian Peninsula, one thousand miles away.

**Ishmael is the son of abraham. Arabs are the decendanst of Ishmael with agrement of Judaism . The arab center of living and rituals are in the center of arabia and not in palestine or jordan . It is up to the Hebrew bible to solve this contradiction. **

No Arab or any historian on earth can show such an association based on authentic written, oral or documented history. This association was made deliberately by mohamad to give the Arabs and himself, an ancestry worthy of a new religion in imitation of that of the Jews and Christians.

**That is your opinion and it isnt based on facts and as it sees out, facts wont matter with you any way because your opinion is already made . Arab history is their history . If it was transmitted through the muslims then you accept it . If you don’t that is your problem and not theirs . It is funny that the same history you use to quote about the previous paganism of teh arabs is coming from the same source that trace their ancestry to ishmael and abraham **

In the koran, there is no mention of his land of nativity nor of his trials and tribulations as he travelled to Canaan and Egypt;
There is no mention of his wife Sarah at all, or the details of their visitation by the messengers of God, nor the reasons of the family strife between Sarah and Hagar and their children.

The Quran doesnt have to mention everything to pass a test . God mentions what he wants for the reasons he wishes. The bible didnt mention everything either .

Well it makes sence that Abraham lived 2500 years before mohamads time and the koran so all Biblical accounts are erased and new ones are created for mohamads new found religion…

Well Adam lived thousands of years before the Torah but still God was able to write on himthings that were considered new at the time. Why not the Quran ?

"
The History that you quoted i have replied to it and then you backtracked when i cornered you . This is arab history . take it all or leave it all but don’t pick as you please.
 
Mr. Bill Pick - I’m sorry if your thread has taken a different direction, and since you are the starter of this and I believe somehow we are getting “off track” here, I will back off and not post any further… I shall await for you reply, meanwhile I will continue…
Ishmael is the son of abraham. Arabs are the decendanst of Ishmael with agrement of Judaism . The arab center of living and rituals are in the center of arabia and not in palestine or jordan . It is up to the Hebrew bible to solve this contradiction.
Yes, Ishmael is the son of Abraham - agreed.

And I don’t believe the Hebrew Bible needs to solve any contradictions because there aren’t any…

Curiuos Meedo - do you ever question anything, research an assortment of sites outside of islamic sites, analyze and form a clear understanding of what you are questioning?

Anyway, since arabs are descendands of Ishmael what are your historical proof traces? Please provide a back up of your statement because this is what history was recorded from historical Hebrew and Biblical accounts.

According to alleged, UNSUBSTANTIATED and totally FABRICATED Arab ‘traditions’ and contrary to the original stories from the Biblical records, Ishmael is their ‘father’ just as Isaac was the ‘father’ of the Israelites.

From this very outset, the above so called ‘traditions’ did not exist in the mind of the Pagan Arabians prior to their ‘revelation’ in mohamads Quran.

There are two versions of the story of Ishmael, one - that of the ORIGINAL in the Bible and the other that of the Quran to compare and contrast.

According to the Bible, Abraham was of the Hebrew Ibri tribe. The Hebrews were one among hundreds of Semitic tribes that lived in the land of what is now called Iraq.

Abraham, was ordered by God to leave the land of his nativity and go to another and that God, would direct him to. This other land was the land of Canaan -

If you want refer to Genesis 12:1 through 5 - I’m trying not to clutter up the reply… 🙂

If historians are correct in surmising that the Semitic tribes of Iraq & Syria originated from Arabia, then the Hebrews were one of these tribes. If this were the case, then Abraham and Ishmael cannot ALSO be the progenitors of the Arabs from whom they originated.

According to the unsubstantiated Arab ‘traditions’, Abraham journied with the ‘baby’ Ishmael and his mother Hagar to the valley of Mecca and together later on raised the Foundations of the Ka’ba.

I will not quote the koran verses but I’m sure you know which ones they are… again… not to clutter the reply… 🙂
The Ka’ba, the House of Allah. Its foundation goes back by Arab tradition to Abraham. Its fourfold character is here referred to.
(1) It was the centre to which all the Arab tribes resorted for trade, for poetic contests, and for worship,
(2) It was sacred territory and was respected by friend and foe alike. At certain seasons, all fighting was and is forbidden within it limits, and even arms are not allowed to be carried and no game or other thing is allowed to be killed. Like the Cities of Refuge under the Mosaic Dispensation to which manslayers could flee (Num. xxxv. 6) or the Sanctuaries in Mediaeval Europe, to which criminals could not be pursued. Mecca was recognized by Arab custom as inviolable for the pursuit of revenge or violence.
(3) It was a place of prayer; even today there is a Station of Abraham within the enclosure where Abraham was supposed to have prayed.
(4) It must be held pure and sacred for all purposes
The falsification of history, the contortion of facts and reality are the FORTE of most of the so called ‘scholars of Islam’; Abdullah Yusuf Ali is no exception. He knows full well that there exists no such ‘Arab tradition’ anywhere in either the pagan Arabian records nor in the Oral traditions of these Arabs to substantiate his allegations.
The ‘facts’ reside within the Quran which asserts in several verses that neither Muhammad nor the Pagan Arabs had any KNOWLEDGE of the PREVIOUS REVELATIONS.
I’m sure you must know Abdullah Yusuf Ali - he is a famous islamic school and you can take your time and read his work.

The ‘facts’ reside within the Quran which asserts in several verses that neither Muhammad nor the Pagan Arabs had any KNOWLEDGE of the PREVIOUS REVELATIONS.

The Quranic word Ummi is deliberately mis-interpreted as “Illiterate” by the Sunni (Orthodox) Muhammadans. Critical scholars Tabari in his Tafsir point out that this curious adjective is invariably used in the Quran in contradistinction and/or in apposition to the People of the Book/ Ahl al Kitab as in
Suras 2:78; 3:20,75; 7:157; 62:2 and should therefore be taken to mean one IGNORANT of Holy Scriptures and/or the EARLIER REVEALED RELIGIONS; that is, unscriptured.

36: 6 In order that thou mayest admonish a people whose fathers had received no admonition and who therefore remain heedless (of the Signs of Allah).

The Quraish had received no prophet before, and therefore one of themselves was made the vehicle for the universal Message to the whole world.

You may also read : 42:52 and 62:2 stating the ignoranace of previous revelations.

For the above, 42:52 and 62.=:2the koran indicates that the pagan Arabs and mohamad were ignorant of previous revlations prior to itself.

I have more to add but I fear my reply will go on deaf ears and will only occupy space on CAF’s database… 🙂
 
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