Muslims and the future of our Nation

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The reply - Allah (God) whould split Christinaity again and again and again till no two Christians believe the same thing. That prophecy seems to have come true. 22,000 or so Christian denominations in the world.
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Christ Jesus actually have foreseen this, and Satan is happy about it because he is the father of lies. But the Lord Jesus has prayed that “all my be one” and we are waiting for that day sooner or later. The truth is the one that will lead us to unity, not by using force. Unity will come about before the second coming of the Lord.

Islam is a “pseudo-messianism.” It is truly the anti-Christ.

Pio
 
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hlgomez:
And you said he was illiterate, how then was he able to write the Quran? Did he know what he was writing if he was illiterate?

Pio
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He dictated it to others, who wrote it for him.
 
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hlgomez:
Many people convert to Islam because of their belief that they can marry as many wives as they can. Our present generation is full of adulterers and adulteress so Islam is the best way to go because Christianity, especially Catholicism doesn’t allow divorce nor remarry.

Pio
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Many Islamic sucide bombers refuse to get married, because they wanted to enjoy with 72 wives in paradise waiting for the suciders after death.
In Christ,
selvaraj
 
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Randy2:
I’ve been told a Muslim mystic was asked how the world would know that Islam, not Christianity, is the true faith. The reply - Allah (God) whould split Christinaity again and again and again till no two Christians believe the same thing. That prophecy seems to have come true. 22,000 or so Christian denominations in the world. I know Catholic apologists point this out as a strength of Catholicism against Protestanism - but I see it as a fatal weakness of Christinaity. Is the message of Jesus that confusing, that hard to understand that this disintegration of Christianity was inevitable and seems to be accelerating?
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With all due respect to the Muslim mystic, division is the work of the devil not “Allah” or “God”. God does not wish us to be divided. The fact that Christianity has been so divided and splintered reveals that Christ is the Truth. The devil has spent much time on deceiving and dividing Christians because it is True. Truth is the enemy of the devil. The never-ending splintering of Christianity is a testimony to the power of its message!
 
I do think the real conflict as this century goes on will be between secularism and Islam. Christianity seems to be collapsing despite the so-called renewals we are so often told about. A lot of that is foisted on folks to get them to buy things.

Islam has a strength Christianity does not have - a unity. A mosque is a mosque is a mosque wherever you go in the world. But a church - here in the Bay Area there are 700+ different types of churches with the denominations featuring totally different docxtines. On Baptism, the Trinity, the rapture, marriage. You name it.

I’ve been told a Muslim mystic was asked how the world would know that Islam, not Christianity, is the true faith. The reply - Allah (God) whould split Christinaity again and again and again till no two Christians believe the same thing. That prophecy seems to have come true. 22,000 or so Christian denominations in the world.
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Randy2,

The division of Christians is not proof of it being a false religion, but rather of its authenticity being a true and divine institution and that in her is found the means of salvation. Christ said; “A kingdom divided against itself will fall.” The enemy, the devil, is very aware of that such that he, together with all those who rebelled against God, wanted to destroy it by causing division. Christian division is further caused by our sinfulness–it further proves that man indeed is a fallen creature. But this is not a battle of religions. It you think it is–you are dead wrong! This is a battle for souls, and Satan hates us all because we are created in the image and likeness of God.

The devil doesn’t want to busy himself in trying to divide the muslims. He knows very well that in that religion there is no message of salvation. If you are a good military strategist, why will you focus your army in destroying that which is indefensible and is propagating messages which is not going to convey salvation? That’s dead meat. It only proves that Christianity is the authentic and divinely instituted religion, and Satan wages his war against her, not the Islam religion nor any religion that is man-made. He knows he has no need of wasting his effort with them. Instead, he wages war at the very doorstep of his enemy, the church, and try to capture it with all his might. If he can’t capture the stronghold, he can never win the war. And that is exactly what he is doing for 2000 years now, that is, to destroy the Catholic Church right at her heart by causing dissentions and division. But he can never destroy it—even until the end of time, because her head is the Lord Himself, the mighty conqueror!

Pio
 
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hlgomez:
Randy2,

The division of Christians is not proof of it being a false religion, but rather of its authenticity being a true and divine institution and that in her is found the means of salvation. Christ said; “A kingdom divided against itself will fall.” The enemy, the devil, is very aware of that such that he, together with all those who rebelled against God, wanted to destroy it by causing division. Christian division is further caused by our sinfulness–it further proves that man indeed is a fallen creature. But this is not a battle of religions. It you think it is–you are dead wrong! This is a battle for souls, and Satan hates us all because we are created in the image and likeness of God.

The devil doesn’t want to busy himself in trying to divide the muslims. He knows very well that in that religion there is no message of salvation. If you are a good military strategist, why will you focus your army in destroying that which is indefensible and is propagating messages which is not going to convey salvation? That’s dead meat. It only proves that Christianity is the authentic and divinely instituted religion, and Satan wages his war against her, not the Islam religion nor any religion that is man-made. He knows he has no need of wasting his effort with them. Instead, he wages war at the very doorstep of his enemy, the church, and try to capture it with all his might. If he can’t capture the stronghold, he can never win the war. And that is exactly what he is doing for 2000 years now, that is, to destroy the Catholic Church right at her heart by causing dissentions and division. But he can never destroy it—even until the end of time, because her head is the Lord Himself, the mighty conqueror!

Pio
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Pio,

You bring up some very valid points. I had not really considered them before.

Why fight the fight that someone else is fighting for you!

I’m actually a bit frightened at the thought of being so close to the battle!

B
 
UnworthySoul said:
“Do you see any issues with the authenticity of the Qurans today as based on these 6 originals? - Munawar”

You know, I can very easily say back to you what you have said of the Bible. How do you know that is how it happened? What proof do you have other than tradition?
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Hello Unworthy Soul,

Islamic history is not based on tradition. It is based on the Science of “Isnad” or chains. Every saying of the Prophet is graded on its authenticity and veracity, including the trustworthiness of the witnesses.

What I listed as the sequence of events in Quranic compilation, were witnessed by many people, and documented by those same people. Islamic history is not weak, as any historian will agree to.

Munawar
 
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exoflare:
Muslim males are allowed to marry a non-muslim. Can a Muslim female do the same?
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Hello Exoflare,

A Muslim male can marry a Jew or Christian. A Muslim women can not.

The reasoning is simple - in Pre-Modern cultures, the man ran the house, and his say went. A Muslim women in a Christian house would have difficulty following her reliigion, and the children would be raised as Christians.

I don’t see how you can equate the above as unfairness in the sexes. Women have some rights over men in Islam, and men have some over women.
 
Rand Al'Thor:
Muhammad was a merchant in the Middle East…he certainly did associate with both Jews and Christians. Muhammad was actually a fairly successful merchant living in a prosperous trade city (Mecca). If you think that he never associated with Christians I…well, that’s just not true. Many other merchants Muhammad would have traded with would have been Jews and Christians. While he may never have read the bible himself, I guarantee it came up at least once in conversation with another merchant.
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Hello Rand,

Yes, I can agree to your statement. He did meet Jews and Christians in his life as a merchant. I don’t believe though that he could build a religion on chance meetings during the semi-annual Caravan to Syria/Persia.
 
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exoflare:
EDIT: Well, I just thought of something. The Anti-Christ will come near the end times claiming to be Christ, and deceive many throughout the world. It just so happens that Muslims also believe that “Christ” will come to earth, but then after that he will spread Islam throughout the world. You don’t suppose…? :hmmm:
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Hello ExoFlare - You should re-examine the signs of the Anti-Christ. His greatest signs will be that he will appear to have God-like powers, and he will call others to Materialism.

Islam only calls to spirituality. And Muslims have NO God like powers on this Earth. You can place those attributes on Nations like America, who are capable of pretty much anything nowadays.

Munawar
 
Two things:
  1. You still did not address the article I posted in any substantive way.
  2. You can say it’s all verified as often as you like but you still have no proof. What you have basically boils down to, “So and so was there and witnessed it.” But you have absolutely no solid proof, just words passed down (tradition) that so and so was there. And if you think no historian would agree, you are not reading anything other than Muslim historians. The events of the New Testament were witnessed by many people, and they were trustwirthy witnesses. You have no proof whatsoever that the New Testament has been corrupted other than what your Koran says. Further, the earliest pieces of parchment found (they date to roughly 30 AD) have been confirmed to be the Gospel of St. Matthew, when compared to modern tranlstions in Catholic Bibles, it is dead on accurate. Now factor in that the Gospel of St. Mark is considered even older than St. Matthew’s and you can see that it’s pretty safe to say that Str. Mark was truly writing down the direct dictations of St. Peter, who we all know walked with Christ.
I never said Islamic history was weak. What I did say and what I will continue to say is that Muhammad took what he liked of Catholicism and Judaism and rejected what he didn’t like. In that respect, Islam is one of the Great Heresies.

Again, it’s all right here: ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/HERESY4.TXT

I find it fascinating that you say your answer’s still stand and that you want me to provide proof that Islam is taken from Catholicism. Everything I’m claiming is in the link above but you fail to address it. You simply blow it off saying you have addressed it before. Well, not here you haven’t.

Further, you say, “I feel it is obvious, that God sent a Prophet to Arabia, describing the same message as all the Prophets before him.” But you yourself provide no proof whatsoever except that you “feel” it. That is not proof. What I have linked to you is solid history and indisputable.

*“This is why you find so many similarities in the two religions.” *Sorry, but that is simply not true, and history stands as witness to it. Islam does NOT have all that much in common with Catholicism or any strain of Christianity for that matter. Muhammad took what he wanted and filled in the rest out of his own head as well as borrowing from the old pagan religion of Arabia that worshipped the Moon god.
 
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hlgomez:
I…says that the bible is corrupted and then you believed right away. Where is your proof? Muhammad?
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Hi HlGomez,

The greatest proof of Islam is the Quran. Which hasn’t changed one letter over the last 1400 years, even though it was predominatly passed on by word of mouth. It contains scientific facts that can only now be proven valid.
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hlgomez:
And you said he was illiterate, how then was he able to write the Quran? Did he know what he was writing if he was illiterate?
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The amount of indepth theological knowledge within the Quran would have required full time study of Catholiscm for 50-70 years. But - The Prophet Muhammad was illiterate, and he lived in Pagan Mecca his whole life. He did not have access to these things. Like I said earlier, if you think he copied from Christianity, bring your proof, not hearsay or conjecture.

Regarding writing - The Quran is a predominatly orally taught book. But, it was written down by his companions.

Munawar
 
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Munawar:
Hello Exoflare,

A Muslim male can marry a Jew or Christian. A Muslim women can not.

The reasoning is simple - in Pre-Modern cultures, the man ran the house, and his say went. A Muslim women in a Christian house would have difficulty following her reliigion, and the children would be raised as Christians.

I don’t see how you can equate the above as unfairness in the sexes. Women have some rights over men in Islam, and men have some over women.
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Then perhaps you would care to explain why it requires the testimony of TWO women to be equal to the testimony of ONE man in your law courts?
 
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Randy2:
A mosque is a mosque is a mosque wherever you go in the world.
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Not true. There are divisions in Islam as well. Example, Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims to name but two.
 
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Munawar:
Regarding writing - The Quran is a predominatly orally taught book. But, it was written down by his companions.

Munawar
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Hello Munawar,

I have one question: How is that we can trust his companions or maybe a better question how do we know his companions wrote it down correctly? Like you said Muhammad was illiterate and most likely could not check what they wrote.
 
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hlgomez:
Many people convert to Islam because of their belief that they can marry as many wives as they can. Our present generation is full of adulterers and adulteress so Islam is the best way to go because Christianity, especially Catholicism doesn’t allow divorce nor remarry.
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Hi HlGomez,

Lol - Come on - you dont believe that do you?

First, Muslims Islamically - Having more then one wife is not a blessing, unless you have a lot of money. Whatever you do for one, has to be done for the other wives. That means if you spend $35.45 on one wife, the same amount has to be spent on the others.

The biggest reason for this rule, is to help widows, and esspecially women in wartime (When men are scarce).

Munawar
 
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Munawar:
Hello ExoFlare - You should re-examine the signs of the Anti-Christ. His greatest signs will be that he will appear to have God-like powers, and he will call others to Materialism.

Islam only calls to spirituality. And Muslims have NO God like powers on this Earth. You can place those attributes on Nations like America, who are capable of pretty much anything nowadays.

Munawar
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You’re characteristics of anti-Christ are flawed. So America is capble of anything nowadays? Really? Tell me, do we ascribe the death sentence to people who convert from Islam to another religion? Do we not allow any other religion other than Islam? No, and as well we should not, but neither should Muslims, yet they do in manyp laces on earth. 32 out of 34 armed conflicts in this world today involve Muslims. Why is that?
 
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Munawar:
Hi HlGomez,

Lol - Come on - you dont believe that do you?

First, Muslims Islamically - Having more then one wife is not a blessing, unless you have a lot of money. Whatever you do for one, has to be done for the other wives. That means if you spend $35.45 on one wife, the same amount has to be spent on the others.

The biggest reason for this rule, is to help widows, and esspecially women in wartime (When men are scarce).

Munawar
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Why is it a problem? A Muslim man can simply say, “I divorce you” and cast his wife on the street. Here’s an idea. You want to help women, especially in wartime? Let them drive a car and get a job. I’m sorry, but you cannot convince me that Islam treats women as anything other than property.
 
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UnworthySoul:
The events of the New Testament were witnessed by many people,
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Hello UnworthySoul,

The article is unsubstansive with lots of hearsay and not much facts. I’m not going to go through the article to refute it. If you want to challenge me with some facts from the article, please do so.

Munawar
 
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