Muslims and the future of our Nation

[Munawar]

UnworthySoul:

Then perhaps you would care to explain why it requires the testimony of TWO women to be equal to the testimony of ONE man in your law courts?

Hello UnworthSoul,

This is perhaps the greatest misunderstood concept in Islam.

The testimony of two women vs one man, only applies to financial matters. The biggest reason for this, is that in Pre-Modern cultures, the women did not get involved in the finances nor in business. Their opinion in this is area is weaker then men who are involved in finances. In modern cultures, they allow women versed in business/finance to equal a man as a witness.

“O ye who believe ! When you borrow one from another for a fixed period, then write it down…And call two witnesses from among your men; and if two men be not available, then a man and two women, of such as you approve as witnesses, so that if either of the two women should forget, then one may remind the other.” Quran (2:283)

Regarding testimony in female areas, a man’s testimony has no value, and only womens testimony counts! In matters of Criminal justice, both men and women have the same weight.

So again - Islam treats both men and women fairly. There is no injustice in Islam, but esspecially in matters of sex.

Munawar

 

[Munawar]

chb03c:

I have one question: How is that we can trust his companions or maybe a better question how do we know his companions wrote it down correctly? Like you said Muhammad was illiterate and most likely could not check what they wrote.

Hello ChB03c,

The trustworthiness of the companions was never in question, because the number of people present during all phases of Quranic compilation.

The first compiled Quran was recited to all Muslims in Medina who had memorized the Quran. They all agreed to the rendition. (And you see this in what HlGomez posted below).

The companions who recited the Quran back to the Prophet…there were many of them. If what they were writing was not in sync with what was recited, then others would notice. Most of the people around the Prophet were literate.

Munawar

 

[Munawar]

UnworthySoul:

Why is it a problem? A Muslim man can simply say, “I divorce you” and cast his wife on the street. Here’s an idea. You want to help women, especially in wartime? Let them drive a car and get a job. I’m sorry, but you cannot convince me that Islam treats women as anything other than property.

Hello UnworthySoul,

I think I’ve explained to you several times now, that Saudia Arabia is not a reflection of what Islam allows. Are you purposefully ignoring what I’m saying, or are you just not understanding?. Thanks.

Munawar

 

[Eden]

The devil works through “divide and conquer”. I haven’t seen that disputed here by Muslims or Catholics. It’s pretty obvious which faith - Christianity - he works to “divide and conquer”.

What is the Muslim explanantion of the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in Egypt in 1968-9 over the Coptic Christian Church named after her? It was witnessed by millions. The apparitions lasted from several minutes to hours at a time. She appeared in full bodily form, as the Madonna and Child and even bowed down before the cross on the Church’s spire. The cross began to radiate light onto her. This was witnessed by Muslims, Catholics, Protestants and atheists - all seeing the same things. Investigations into “projection” devices or other means of trickery were unsuccessful. There was no earthly explanation for this:

http://biblia.com/apparitions/virgin-zeitun-16gg.jpg

 

[Munawar]

Eden:

What is the Muslim explanantion of the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in Egypt in 1968-9 over the Coptic Christian Church named after her?

Hello Eden,

Generally, there is no Muslim explanation for such apparitions. But then, we don’t use such events as proof for or against a religion.

Munawar

 

[Eden]

Since Muslims don’t have apparitions of Islamic images, I can understand that. Thanks for the quick response! What is your view on the idea that the devil wishes to “divide and conquer” God’s children?

 

[iamrefreshed]

Munawar:

Hello UnworthSoul,

This is perhaps the greatest misunderstood concept in Islam.

The testimony of two women vs one man, only applies to financial matters. The biggest reason for this, is that in Pre-Modern cultures, the women did not get involved in the finances nor in business. Their opinion in this is area is weaker then men who are involved in finances. In modern cultures, they allow women versed in business/finance to equal a man as a witness.

“O ye who believe ! When you borrow one from another for a fixed period, then write it down…And call two witnesses from among your men; and if two men be not available, then a man and two women, of such as you approve as witnesses, so that if either of the two women should forget, then one may remind the other.” Quran (2:283)

Regarding testimony in female areas, a man’s testimony has no value, and only womens testimony counts! In matters of Criminal justice, both men and women have the same weight.

So again - Islam treats both men and women fairly. There is no injustice in Islam, but esspecially in matters of sex.

Munawar

Hello Munawar,

Is the verse above correct? My Qur’an shows a completely different verse in Sura 2:283

I do disagree with you on what the Qur’an states about treatment of women. There are many Sura’s that give definitive rules for the treatment of women. Are we to take them literally?

 

[hlgomez]

The amount of indepth theological knowledge within the Quran would have required full time study of Catholiscm for 50-70 years. But - The Prophet Muhammad was illiterate, and he lived in Pagan Mecca his whole life. He did not have access to these things. Like I said earlier, if you think he copied from Christianity, bring your proof, not hearsay or conjecture.

The Quran itself is a proof that Muhammad borrowed his own form of Christology (about Jesus) and also Mary with his numerous mentions of their life and how they lived in the Quranic texts. The Quran attests to the fact that Jesus and Mary indeed lived in this world, BUT his views, as I have said, is based from heretic Christians. There may be some truth like Jesus being born of a virgin, but that’s the devil’s tricks to lure people to believe. The devil knows the tactics of inserting truths and lies altogether. The reason I said he copied his views from heretics is because these heretics were around BEFORE Islam or even Muhammad was born, and they were condemned by the Church in the Councils that were held and condemned their twisted doctrines about Christianity.

One of the things that Muhammad borrowed is that he says Jesus is only a prophet and not God (copied from Arianism which originates in the year 325 AD and lasted for several centuries until it died out). He also made some twisting of the truth and said that Jesus wasn’t crucified but someone else was crucified denying that our Saviour indeed suffered and rose again on the third day for our sake. For all the early centuries of Christianity, Christians attested and even suffered the fate of martyrdom (without by the way fighting to save their lives thru bloodshed) but voluntarily submit themselves to suffer and shed blood because of their love for the Lord Jesus and believing in Him who rose from the dead. Muhammad didn’t rose from the dead. But he will be ressurected and will recieve his reward either in heaven or hell, only God knows.

Pio

Pio

 

[hlgomez]

Mohammed’s father was Abdallah, of the family of Hashim, who died soon after his son’s birth. At the age of six the boy lost his mother and was thereafter taken care of by his uncle Abu-Talib. He spent his early life as a shepherd and an attendant of caravans, and at the age of twenty-five married a rich widow, Khadeejah, fifteen years his senior. She bore him six children, all of whom died very young except Fatima, his beloved daughter.
On his commercial journeys to Syria and Palestine he became acquainted with Jews and Christians, and acquired an imperfect knowledge of their religion and traditions. At Medina he was recognized as the prophet of GOd, and his followers increased. He took the field against his enemies, conquered several Arabian, Jewish, and Christian tribes, entered Mecca in triumph in 630, demolished the idols of the Kaaba, became master of Arabia, and finally united all the tribes under one emblem and one religion. In 632 he made his last pilgrimage to Mecca at the head of forty thousand followers, and soon after his return died of a violent fever in the sixty-third year of his age, the eleventh of the Hejira, and the year 633 of the Christian era.

Pio

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Munawar:

Hello Eden,

Generally, there is no Muslim explanation for such apparitions. But then, we don’t use such events as proof for or against a religion.

Munawar

Do Muslims tend to accept apparitions of Mary? It seems like they would because they do hold her in esteem.
I am also curious of the Islamic explanation (so far I’ve only heard the history class one) of why women are required to cover their entire bodies (and I do realize this is only one form of Islam).

 

[hlgomez]

Contrary to what had been said here that Muslims are united, it’s not even a fact.

Mohammedanism now comprises various theological schools and political factions. The Orthodox (Sunni) uphold the legitimacy of the succession of the first three caliphs, Abu Bakr, Omar, and Uthman, while the Schismatics (Shiah) champion the Divine right of Ali as against the successions of these caliphs whom they call “usurpers”, and whose names, tombs, and memorials they insult and detest. The Shiah number at present about twelve million adherents, or about one-twentieth of the whole Mohammedan world, and are scattered over Persia and India. The Sunni are subdivided into four principal theological schools, or sects, viz., the Hanifites, found mostly in Turkey, Central Asia, and Northern India; the Shafites in Southern India and Egypt; the Malikites, in Morocco, Barbary, and parts of Arabia; and the Hanbalites in Central and Eastern Arabia and in some parts of Africa. The Shiah are also subdivided into various, but less important, sects. Of the proverbial seventy-three sects of Islam, thirty-two are assigned to the Shiah. The principal differences between the two are:

• as to the legitimate successors of Mohammed;
• the Shiah observe the ceremonies of the month of fasting, Muharram, in commemoration of Ali, Hasan, Husain, and Bibi Fatimah, whilst the Sunnites only regard the tenth day of that month as sacred, and as being the day on which God created Adam and Eve;
• the Shiah permit temporary marriages, contracted for a certain sum of money, whilst the Sunnites maintain that Mohammed forbade them;
• the Shi’ites include the Fire-Worshippers among the “People of the Book”, whilst the Sunnites acknowledge only Jews, Christians, and Moslems as such;
• several minor differences in the ceremonies of prayer and ablution;
• the Shiah admit a principle of religious compromise in order to escape persecution and death, whilst the Sunni regard this as apostasy.

Today, the only thing that unites muslims is their hatred against the West, especially the United States, and above all to non-muslims. But you can see that they also kill their own “brothers” like their suicide bombings in Iraq, Pakistan, and elsewhere’s mosques. That’s how they view martyrdom at its very best. Their master maker of such “martyrs” is Satan–their master terrorist. But I know there are a lot of muslims who are good and God fearing people. These are people who, by no fault of their own, will come to know God, and God willing, will also be saved.

Pio

 

[Munawar]

Eden:

Since Muslims don’t have apparitions of Islamic images, I can understand that. Thanks for the quick response! What is your view on the idea that the devil wishes to “divide and conquer” God’s children?

Hello Eden,

Yes, I can agree to the divide and conquer idea.

The Prophet Muhammad said that the Jews would split into 71 sects, and the Christians into 72, and the Muslims into 73. And of the Muslims, only one would enter heaven.

Munawar

 

[UnworthySoul]

Munawar:

Hello UnworthySoul,

The article is unsubstansive with lots of hearsay and not much facts. I’m not going to go through the article to refute it. If you want to challenge me with some facts from the article, please do so.

Munawar

Now you’re just being disingenuous, if not outright lying. That article is full of nothing BUT facts. I guess you don’t like seeing them all spelled out so you’ve decided to ignore what you cannot explain away. So be it, it’s on your soul friend.

 

[Munawar]

iamrefreshed:

Hello Munawar,

Is the verse above correct? My Qur’an shows a completely different verse in Sura 2:283

I do disagree with you on what the Qur’an states about treatment of women. There are many Sura’s that give definitive rules for the treatment of women. Are we to take them literally?

Hello Iamrefreshed,

You can find it at this link:

usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

And you’re right, the verse is 2:282. My mistake.

As for the treatment of women, please post the ones you feel prove your case. I would encourage you to keep all verses in context.

Munawar

 

[UnworthySoul]

Munawar:

Hello UnworthySoul,

I think I’ve explained to you several times now, that Saudia Arabia is not a reflection of what Islam allows. Are you purposefully ignoring what I’m saying, or are you just not understanding?. Thanks.

Munawar

Ok, then tell me a country that IS an example of what Islam allows.

 

[hlgomez]

The Prophet Muhammad said that the Jews would split into 71 sects, and the Christians into 72, and the Muslims into 73. And of the Muslims, only one would enter heaven.

Munawar,

Your prophet Muhammad is not really a prophet. Christians alone has over 33, 000 denominations from the Protestantism and not 72. Does he know how to count?

Pio

 

[selvaraj]

Satan had two major victories.
1.It overcome Mohammed. Cause Islam born.
2.It overcome Luther. Cause Protestant born.
So Devil power is ruling you, that why sucide attempts are going on.
In Christ,
selvaraj

 

[Stu]

Munawar:

Hello UnworthySoul,

I think I’ve explained to you several times now, that Saudia Arabia is not a reflection of what Islam allows.

Munawar

Given that, why then did the government in Saudia Arabia feel the need to search my luggage for extra Bibles and have the Mutawa repeatedly confront me with questions concerning my faith (Are you a Christian?) everytime I visited as part of my military duties? Given I made no attempts to spread the faith while in their country why are they so threatened by Christianity? Curious as to your thoughts on this.

 

[UnworthySoul]

Stu:

Given that, why then did the government in Saudia Arabia feel the need to search my luggage for extra Bibles and have the Mutawa repeatedly confront me with questions concerning my faith (Are you a Christian?) everytime I visited as part of my military duties? Given I made no attempts to spread the faith while in their country why are they so threatened by Christianity? Curious as to your thoughts on this.

Happened to you too huh? And think, this is the country that has their most “holy” city in it.

 

[selvaraj]

Stu:

Given that, why then did the government in Saudia Arabia feel the need to search my luggage for extra Bibles and have the Mutawa repeatedly confront me with questions concerning my faith (Are you a Christian?) everytime I visited as part of my military duties? Given I made no attempts to spread the faith while in their country why are they so threatened by Christianity? Curious as to your thoughts on this.

Saudis saying,
Saudi Arabia is Cradle of Islam. Munawar saying not.
In Christ,
selvaraj