Muslims and Virgin Mary

[Montalban]

These passages leave no doubt that Mohammed denied the doctrine of the Trinity and that he conceived it to be, or affirmed it to be, a species of tritheism consisting of God, Mary and Jesus Christ. [Whether Mohammed had a correct idea of the Trinity and deliberately put forth this travesty of the Christian idea, we will consider later.] The commentaries interpret the Koran as follows: Zamakhshari on 4:169 remarks, “The story received among Christians is that God is one in essence and three persons, (akanim) the person of the Father, the person of the Son and the person of the Holy Spirit. And they verily mean by the person of the Father, the Being, and by the person of the Son, knowledge, and by the person of the Holy Spirit, life. And this supposes that God is the third of three, or, if not, that there are three gods. And that which the Koran here refers to is the clear statement of theirs, that God and Christ and Mary are three gods and that the Christ is a child (walad) of God from Mary.” For proof he then quotes Surah 5:116, and adds: “And it is universally known concerning Christians that they hold the deity and humanity of Christ as regards his father and mother.” From this it is evident that Zamakhshari had a more correct idea of the doctrine of the Trinity than did Mohammed and that after offering a modal trinity as the creed of Christians he covers up the Koran mistake by asserting, without proof, that the trinity was a triad of Father, Son and Mother. (Vol. I. of the Kishaf, p. 241.) Beidhawi (on 4:169) remarks: “Jesus is called the Spirit of God because He makes the dead to live or quickens hearts.” On the following verse he is doubtful; “Either God is the third of three gods or is a triad of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Vol. I., p. 319.) He, too, avoids a real explanation of the gross misstatement in the Koran that Mary is one of the persons of the Trinity. The Jilalain (Vol. I., p. 278) prove that Jesus cannot be God, “because He has a spirit and everything possessed of a spirit is compounded (murakkib and God is absolutely without compounding, arrangement (tarkib), i.e., simple.” He says the Trinity consists of “Allah and Jesus and His mother.” (The Moslem Doctrine Of God, Samuel M. Zwemer, 1905, p 80)
It is interesting to note that the charges against Christians of looking upon the Virgin Mary as the third person of the Trinity is made in the last of all the Suras:- O Jesus, Son of Mary, hast thou said unto mankind 'Take me and my mother as two Gods beside God? ’ He shall say: ‘Glory be unto Thee! it is not for me to say that which I know to be not the truth.’ Sura Al-Ma’idah (v) 116. Whether Muhammad knew better or not is uncertain, but, however that may be, this is his parting accusation. He could have ascertained the true facts of the case, for on Christian monuments found by Dr. B. Glaser in Yemen, the Sirwah inscription opens with the words, ‘In the power of the all-Merciful and His Messiah and the Holy Ghost.’ (Zwemer, Islam, p. 21.) To say the least, Muhammad here made a serious mistake, which it is difficult to reconcile with the verbal inspiration of the Qur’an. (The Historical Development Of The Qur’an, Edward Sell, 1869-1932, p 172)
bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-koran-errors-catholic-mariolatry-trinity-father-son-mary.htm

 

[paarsurrey]

no doubt that Mohammed denied the doctrine of the Trinity

Hi

I agree with you that Muhammad/Islam/Quran denied the doctrine of Trinity most vehemently. The Oneness of GodAllahYHWH as defined in The Holy Quran : Chapter 112: Al-Ikhlas

**[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say 'He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] 'He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him. **
is basis of all Muslims ,whatever the denomination, and that is a true and sound doctrine.

Thanks

I often quote from the writings of the PromisedMessiah, to make it convenient for my Catholic friends to convert me to your cherished faith, if you refute his arguments and your arguments exceed that of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s arguments; I being steadfast on my faith, keep a window or a door open to welcome the truth from anywhere it comes to me. The Catholics are in this way in direct contest with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

 

[inJESUS]

Regarding the word “Trinity”, it is not in the Arabic Quran.

As to Mary and intercession, many sunni and shia alike ask for her intercession in my country, something i don’t find strange since in the quran Allah says that he accepts the intercession of who he wills and muhammad in the hadith says he will intercede for people.

Regarding the Trinity, i’d expect an all-knowing Allah to word it right but what we find is attempts to show that Muhammad did not get it wrong when we clearly see that orthodox Christian teachings are not in the Quran…no mention of the Holy Spirit but only of Mary when allah is supposed to know that the Holy spirit is what billions believe in and not Mary.

The Quran stresses that Jesus did not teach us that Mary is a god and says that Mary “used to eat like normal people” which means that the Quran is stressing , in more than one aya, that Mary is not divine when it should have adressed the Holy Spirit if indeed Muhammad got it right.

 

[Montalban]

Hi

I agree with you that Muhammad/Islam/Quran denied the doctrine of Trinity most vehemently. The Oneness of GodAllahYHWH as defined in The Holy Quran : Chapter 112: Al-Ikhlas

**[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say 'He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] 'He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him. **
is basis of all Muslims ,whatever the denomination, and that is a true and sound doctrine.

Thanks

I often quote from the writings of the PromisedMessiah, to make it convenient for my Catholic friends to convert me to your cherished faith, if you refute his arguments and your arguments exceed that of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s arguments; I being steadfast on my faith, keep a window or a door open to welcome the truth from anywhere it comes to me. The Catholics are in this way in direct contest with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

What’s your take on the evidence that Mary is worshipped as part of the Trinity?

 

[paarsurrey]

What’s your take on the evidence that Mary is worshipped as part of the Trinity?

Hi

We Muslim don’t believe in Trinity in any form as do Christians believe.

Mary and Jesus we respect and love very much, Mary as a woman/mother of Jesus. With Mary GodAllahYHWH talked directly, a quality witnessed by Allah in Quran with a few women.

Jesus we love as a ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH, who was though put on Cross but delivered from it in near-dead position, Jesus was not killed on Cross and from Galilee after the event of Crucifixion, Jesus alongwith Mary went in search of the lost tribes of house of Israel. Jesus died in Kashmir, in India a natural and peaceful death, Mary according to some died nearby at a hilly resort called Murree, near Islamabad the capital of Pakistan.

We pray directly to GodAllahYHWH and none else, neither Muhammad, nor Jesus nor Mary. We don’t pray to anybody as intercessor, we consider it making such a person a deity.

You could believe otherwise, never mind.

For the time being it is sufficient.

Thanks

I only discuss things with my Catholic and non-Catholics friends and brothers; I don’t debate, because in debate usually love is lost in between.

 

[Montalban]

Hi

We Muslim don’t believe in Trinity in any form as do Christians believe.
That’s not the issue. At issue is that Muhammed stated that we Christians worship God the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary the Mother *as *the Trinity

 

[Dempsey1919]

Montalban:

When Christianity conquered Rome, the new religion (i.e., Christianity) was infused with the blood of the old idolatrous religion

False. Simply not true. However, Islam is a fushion of Arabic paganism, gnostic, heretical christianity and judaism.

This is evidenced by the fact that the Kaaba, the holiest site in Islam, was once used to house 360 idols which were worshipped by the pre-islamic arabs.

 

[daughterofmary]

I remember reading this (ewtn.com/library/mary/olislam.htm) article on ewtn a year or so ago. I found it very informative and observant. It speaks of the connection between Islam and the Virgin Mary, specifically under the title of Our Lady fo Fatima. I don’t believe it says that they pray to Mary, but it does say that Mohammed said of his daughter, “She has the highest place in heaven after the Virgin Mary.” I think this shows just how much they give honor to Our Lady. It is a pretty interesting article.



In Jesus and Mary,
Marie

 

[Montalban]

False. Simply not true.

I agree

 

[Jim_ov_Cov]

There is a great 4 part series about this on YouTube. Type in ‘The Blessed Virgin Mary and Islam (Part 1)’ in search on that site.

 

[buffalo]

I remember reading this (ewtn.com/library/mary/olislam.htm) article on ewtn a year or so ago. I found it very informative and observant. It speaks of the connection between Islam and the Virgin Mary, specifically under the title of Our Lady fo Fatima. I don’t believe it says that they pray to Mary, but it does say that Mohammed said of his daughter, “She has the highest place in heaven after the Virgin Mary.” I think this shows just how much they give honor to Our Lady. It is a pretty interesting article.



In Jesus and Mary,
Marie

see post #16