Muslims Around the World Speak Out Against Terrorist Attacks in Paris

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You are thinking of Islam as another religion. It isn’t. It is an intertwined political and religious power. That is what makes it so difficult to battle with these terrorists. Please look up what a caliphate is and try to view the world as a Muslim sees it, rather than how a Christian sees it. NONE of the major Imams around the world have ever denounced the authority of the terrorist groups. None of them. With a declared caliphate, it is even more critical that they denounce ISIS, ISIL, and AQ’s (which doesn’t get along with ISIS) authority. That is bad news for the rest of us. They are not saying that they don’t agree with these groups. They aren’t even all saying that they disagree with their methods.

There is a difference between saying “I’m very sorry for the actions of people of my religion. I do not recognize the authority of the caliphate.” (Which would be good). And saying, “I’m sorry your aunt had to die”. (This is what we are hearing).

No, we aren’t responsible for the actions of all Christians, but wouldn’t we feel that it was important to denounce, publicly, any terrorist group that claims to be representing Christianity? Of course! Just as we would denounce racists and thugs. A good Muslim cannot deny the authority of the caliphate, or he/she is an apostate. We need the majority of Muslims to be apostates right now.
 
Agree and doesn’t Scripture speak of the sins of nations and how can anyone atone for the losses of spiritual centers with their believers still there who have not done anything to destroy others’ religious centers of the past.

I respect Picky Picky…but in the sea of humanity, each one of us are only one speck of dust. We don’t mistreat Picky or anyone else who is decent and humane. But there is much reckoning coming to humanity.

So…do we as Catholics…pray, do penance, and offer our Masses around the world for atonement for sin?..This is the only real solution I can see…

We must act in solidarity with other Muslims who also are against terror…but there are those grieving for lost of their homeland…scars…think of the Armenians, the Christians of Smyrna…we cannot forget them…and all the innocent.

The only viable gathering point and atonement for all of this is the Lamb of God.
 
I was disagreeing with Picky picky, but I did not mean to disrespect him at all.

If I did, or came across that way, Picky Picky, I am sorry.

I think we are all a bit edgy from these recent events. Perhaps a break from the computer is due. At least for me.

I have been praying. It’s hard to see where this is all going and I am worried for our children.
 
That is promising, JC. I wish there were more like him. Did this same imam speak out against these attacks?
 
KathleenGee said:
Picky Picky…

What do you think of the Eastern Orthodox who have their land seized and Islam forced on them to the point the second generations could not survive under dhimmitude?..I have much pain for the Christians in Constantinople and the sacrilege of the Hagia Sophia…the same now for the Serbian Orthodox cathedral and churches in Kosovo, transferred through the hands of Bill Clinton.

I mean to say, and I understand where you are, God bless you…but there are places of Muslim domination of Christian religious sites…the wounds so deep and still hurting…and it is said we all carry the sins of our nations, and I would also add, of our religions.

I am finding out that Edgordan of Turkey wants to restore the caliphate and make Ankara the new headquarters…a new 1000 room palace for himself with new, separate buildings for other Muslim leaders of different lands.

And now in North London, a very militant Muslim group is now seeking Muslim show of force to struggle for the islamic state of England.

Again, I am adding here that we are all going to be stereotyped and involved whether we like it or not.
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Kathleen, we are all going to be stereotyped indeed. Yes, terrible things have been done and are being done, to Christians and, as you say, to others. There are parts of South East Asia where Muslims are being terrorised. Jharek reminds us, uncomfortably for me as a Briton, of the suffering caused by my country to Catholics in Ireland. It would be insufferably unnecessary for me to start disinterring the sufferings caused to Protestants there in return. You will know that there have been times when people of my lack of belief have been victimised. Jews have been terrorists. How can we understand how much Jews have been terrorised? You will agree with me, I am sure, that we are all sinners, and that sufferings are unnumbered.

As we grieve for our friends in France we will inevitably look with suspicion at anyone we fear may be a potential killer. The prime minister of my country has warned that a similar atrocity can be expected here. We will fasten our borders against the terrorist — and in so doing against the suffering refugee. We will step up our intelligence — and in so doing weaken the liberal democracy we are trying to defend.

All that is no doubt inevitable. For the sake of our civilisation let us not also follow our fellow commenter and start to blame our fellow citizens for the crime of holding a faith which these killers dare also to proclaim.
 
Catholic_farmer said:
I was disagreeing with Picky picky, but I did not mean to disrespect him at all.

If I did, or came across that way, Picky Picky, I am sorry.

I think we are all a bit edgy from these recent events. Perhaps a break from the computer is due. At least for me.

I have been praying. It’s hard to see where this is all going and I am worried for our children.
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Rest assured you have no cause to apologise to me. These are dark days and we all worry. I wish you peace.

(Do you remember, as I do, when the Berlin Wall came down and we thought the worst was over? Silly people, we are.)
 
Eric_Hilbert said:
Stick with the OP please. The ethnic origins of posters is not what is being discussed.
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My respects, and literally you are right. But you jumped too soon if you suspected my motives were anything other than a request for information so that I didn’t make too much of a fool of myself in replying. Jharek is Irish, and that is relevant to the point he made, how I understood it, and how I responded to it. But your pounce was impressively rapid!
 
Picky_Picky said:
Rest assured you have no cause to apologise to me. These are dark days and we all worry. I wish you peace.

(Do you remember, as I do, when the Berlin Wall came down and we thought the worst was over? Silly people, we are.)
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I was in high school, but yes, I thought the same as you did. 🙂

Some days, I almost miss the Commies. At least they had borders.
 
You know…an imam, speaking as a religious leader (because what else would he do) doesn’t exactly have the ability to raise an army and allocate funds for a war. Most of what we’re looking for as far as a solution from the Muslim world (speaking mostly to Catholic farmer) has to do with the relationships of nation-states to each other, alignment and alliances and agreements to protect so and so under thus and such conditions. If red lines are crossed, then countries A, B, and C will do X, Y, and Z (or at least they should).

There are agreements and alignments and understandings involving officially Islamic nations and mostly Islamic nations alike. There isn’t really a worldwide unified bloc, though, and there are pretty good reasons for why that is. Perhaps there ought to be more in the way of formal meetings and agreements between heads of state (from Islamic countries) in order to make different plans for the future, cooperate in the interest of stability safety and managing the refugee crisis. Maybe those types of meetings are happening and we don’t hear much about it, maybe there are very good reasons why certain people aren’t talking to each other much. I do rather get the feeling, for example, that if Iran were allowed to do exactly what it wants, there would be a rather brutal ethnic cleansing in progress right now. I’m sure that for Sunni Muslims anywhere in the world, that is felt quite a bit more strongly for them. I do wish some progress was being made, but there are a whole lot of issues in play that most US citizens just barely understand, and it doesn’t really come down to “just do this one thing.”

And whether it is just doing one thing or a bunch of things, or the few things that can realistically be done at this time, those courses of action are plotted by heads of state, by diplomats, by generals. Imams handle religious teaching, and they don’t govern or necessarily cause international alignments to go a certain way.

I do think we can, at times, focus too much on what imams are doing or what they’re “supposed” to do when the situation calls for the consideration and evaluation of a bunch of people that are not imams. If I’m on to something, perhaps this can broaden the discussion a bit.
 
It is disingenuous for Iran to condemn the Paris attacks while they have imprisoned an Iranian American pastor who is a convert to Christianity. It’s not what they say it’s what they actually do. Christians are regularly persecuted and killed in Islamic nations. Try preaching the gospel in Saudi Arabia and see what happens.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saeed_Abedini
 
Thanks for your response, Picky Picky…and BTW, I am Irish Catholic as well and my father made us knowledgeable of our past heritage. But he pulled out of the issues and saw stubborness as well.

Reading your post to me…I see the Holy Spirit at work and we must all implore God’s mercy on us. We are all guilty in one way or another of the current world situation. And likewise, we must be merciful to others.

But unfortunately the militancy we see will only lead to more militancy.

I pray for you and all people of mercy that God strengthen us in our resolve to be in peace and serve one another.
 
Catholic_farmer said:
You are thinking of Islam as another religion. It isn’t. It is an intertwined political and religious power. That is what makes it so difficult to battle with these terrorists. Please look up what a caliphate is and try to view the world as a Muslim sees it, rather than how a Christian sees it. NONE of the major Imams around the world have ever denounced the authority of the terrorist groups. None of them. With a declared caliphate, it is even more critical that they denounce ISIS, ISIL, and AQ’s (which doesn’t get along with ISIS) authority. That is bad news for the rest of us. They are not saying that they don’t agree with these groups. They aren’t even all saying that they disagree with their methods.
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lettertobaghdadi.com/

Would Point 22 of the Above “Letter to Baghdadi” by many of the major mainstream scholars and imams count for what your looking for?
As for not agreeing with these groups - i’d ask you to take a sharper look at the situation in the Middle East —> And put your Political Hat on for this one.

1.) ISIS is at war with the Taliban in Afghanistan due to their Wahabi-Salafist vs. Deobandi side (and of course due to the fact that both groups want the Shiny Leader Hat)

nationalinterest.org/feature/taliban-vs-isis-the-islamic-state-doomed-afghanistan-13153

2.) ISIS is at war with Hamas

nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/isis-supporters-throw-down-gauntlet-hamas-gaza-n385006

A recent response by Hamas to a suspected ISIS cell hiding in a Mosque was to demolish the mosque, torture the members of the cell, and leave a few of them dead hanging in the street In Gaza as a warning to those Palestinians not to cooperate with them.

Why the reaction from Hamas and the Taliban? Its quite simple

ISIS seeks a Caliphate.
Hamas and the Taliban are seeking Nation-statehood.

Their goals are at odds with one another.
I’m just using the above as an example of groups who although nominally sharing the same religious background are essentially operating on principles that fall outside of the religious sphere → Social, Economic, Tribal (And this is a big one)/Cultural.

Its the reason why Jordanians (who are Sunni), tend to utterly reject ISIS rather vehemently especially after the burning of Muath al-Kasasbeh. For them is a mixture not only of religion, but ethno-nationalism and support of the Monarchy.

Same with the Kurds and their struggles with ISIS. the Kurds are quite a religious people (again, Sunnis) but…

foxnews.com/world/2014/12/17/love-american-style-iraq-kurds-fans-all-things-us-bush/

Which incidentally angers Turkey → al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/07/turkey-lobbies-congress.html

They have been courting America’s Love since Gulf War I… and the Americans just keep, to you a phrase i recently heard with a former student, i believe its “throwing them under the bus.”
 
Yes, the politics in the Middle East is quite complicated and struggles between groups of Muslims have been going on for centuries. However, they do tend to unite over their hatred of the West. ISIS and AQ hate each other, but both want to kill us. It would be bad for us if they ever teamed up (won’t happen).
 
Catholic_farmer said:
Yes, the politics in the Middle East is quite complicated and struggles between groups of Muslims have been going on for centuries. However, they do tend to unite over their hatred of the West. ISIS and AQ hate each other, but both want to kill us. It would be bad for us if they ever teamed up (won’t happen).
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But remember Catholic Farmer, i was simply responding to your idea that there must be some essentialized mindset for being a Muslim.
That is what makes it so difficult to battle with these terrorists. Please look up what a caliphate is and try to view the world as a Muslim sees it, rather than how a Christian sees it.
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There isn’t - there are in fact multiple!

And if you notice - all the examples I gave are of Inter-Sunni squabbles. Didn’t even touch the Shi’ite/Sunni sectarian divide.

Do some of these people want a Caliphate? Some do … but that doesn’t mean those who do acknowledge the “ISIS version” as a legitimate Caliphate.

And some…see the Caliphate idea as essentially a relic of the past. They’d much prefer an independent state that happens to have an Islamic majority.

Hence the Head Imam of Al-Azhar (the traditional and most prestigious seat of Sunni Islamic learning in the MIddle East) comments over a year ago against ISIS.

english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/12/03/Head-of-Egypt-s-al-Azhar-condemns-ISIS-barbarity-.html

A short extract from the article…
Sheikh Tayeb called on the U.S.-led coalition that is fighting ISIS “to confront those countries who support terrorism financially and militarily”.
**
“But we should not ignore our own responsibility for the emergence of extremism that has led to the formation of organizations such as al-Qaeda and other armed groups.”**
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Heck - technically Al-Azhar was demanding the “Killing, crucifixion” of ISIS…

english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/02/04/Al-Azhar-calls-for-killing-crucifixion-of-ISIS-terrorists-.html
As for the hatred of the West - that’s a supremely complicated issue in my opinion.

There’s definitely a sense of resentment from the Middle East precisely because they feel that Europeans (and by extension Americans) used them as Chess Pieces for a good 100 years.

A lot of these nations in the Middle East have rather artificial borders - drawn up by the UK , France, et al at the close of World War 2 - irrespective of tribal lands, cultural/religious affiliation, etc. etc. etc.

Then of course there’s the whole Israel matter…

But i don’t think you should really worry about some sort of Grand Islamic Alliance against the West…

…cause despite their dislike and disdain… they just hate each other more…

And those hatreds are in some cases a millenia old.
 
I think the best approach to combat the evil in these groups is stop selling them weapons! We need leaders, in both Europe and the US, ready to take on Putin and get him to agree to not allow his arms makers to sell to the Middle East either. These weapons dealers know where these things are going to end up when they sell to certain places. They should be held accountable. We are causing our own death and destruction to make an easy buck.

Also, isolate the countries that have extremists. We can bring them aid and military support, but don’t support their government with money and weapons if they cannot control where the money and weapons are going. There are enough people there who have been raised on the idea of hating the West that it isn’t safe for us to just allow free passage into Europe (and it seems, free travel between countries in Europe). The only way to keep us safe to to isolate them from coming into Western countries. The Middle East should be taking in it’s own refugees. There are very rich countries that need to do much more for their neighbors. No one should be allowed to come into Western countries without being screened thoroughly. We should help refugees, but we don’t need to be suckers. Rescue them and drop them off in a stable Middle Eastern country. We need to negotiate this immediately. There are many desperate for a new way of life, they can go into detainment camps until they are screened. Many of the single men traveling should be sent back to the Middle East. Are they coming to assimilate, or to attack? How easy it is for extremists to join the multitude.

Lastly, anyone who travels to Syria or Iraq should not be let back into the West (European countries, US, etc…). If you didn’t go there with on official business, with approval from your home country, you aren’t coming home. For now, visiting family in either Syria or Iraq would mean staying there with them. We are at war, so free passage back and forth is just idiotic. Your kid runs away to Syria? Well, we know why.
 
When this sort of thing happens, the Muslim world always denounces it. It would be far more meaningful and believable if they would offer France assistance in finding and punishing the perpetrators, especially Iran. It would be great if they would join the civilized world sometime this century.
 
pnewton said:
When this sort of thing happens, the Muslim world always denounces it. It would be far more meaningful and believable if they would offer France assistance in finding and punishing the perpetrators, especially Iran. It would be great if they would join the civilized world sometime this century.
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Well not sure how much help Iran could be. They’re a Shia country that is currently at de-facto war with the militantly Wahhabi Sunni ISIL, they’re not exactly buddy buddy with the perpetrators.

As for Muslim nations speaking out, King Abdullah of Jordan has put himself out there as a big opponent of ISIL. He did so again today reitterating that this isn’t just a group bent on attacking non-Muslims but all of humanity including more than anything their own fellow Muslims in what the King terms a “Third World War” on humanity. He’s the second world leader to call what ISIL is doing a third world war in the last couple of days. And mind you Jordan has been fighting ISIL directly.

news.yahoo.com/king-jordan-warns-world-war-against-humanity-161351407.html
 
Padres1969 said:
Well not sure how much help Iran could be. They’re a Shia country that is currently at de-facto war with the militantly Wahhabi Sunni ISIL, they’re not exactly buddy buddy with the perpetrators.

As for Muslim nations speaking out, King Abdullah of Jordan has put himself out there as a big opponent of ISIL. He did so again today reitterating that this isn’t just a group bent on attacking non-Muslims but all of humanity including more than anything their own fellow Muslims in what the King terms a “Third World War” on humanity. He’s the second world leader to call what ISIL is doing a third world war in the last couple of days. And mind you Jordan has been fighting ISIL directly.

news.yahoo.com/king-jordan-warns-world-war-against-humanity-161351407.html
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King Abdullah of Jordan has always been a strong ally against radical Islamic jihadists. He “gets it”! If only there were more leaders like him in the ME.
 
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