Muslims beginning to own up to violence

[schaick]

in Quran and Islam!!

cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/March/UK-Muslim-Leader-Islam-Not-a-Religion-of-Peace/

WASHINGTON – The Obama administration has released a review of its strategy in the war on terrorism. The report failed to even mention the word “Islam.”

CBN News traveled to London to talk with Anjem Choudary, a leading Muslim radical who says Islamic teachings are what shaped his pro-jihad message.

Although both George W. Bush and Barack Obama have declared that Islam is a religion of peace, Choudary begs to differ.

A Religion of Peace?

“You can’t say that Islam is a religion of peace,” Choudary told CBN News. “Because Islam does not mean peace. Islam means submission. So the Muslim is one who submits. There is a place for violence in Islam. There is a place for jihad in Islam.”

Choudary is the leader of Islam4UK, a group recently banned in Britain under the country’s counter-terrorism laws. He wants Islamic Sharia law to rule the United Kingdom and is working to make that dream a reality.

While Islamic radicals in the United States usually prefer to speak in more moderate tones while in public, masking their true agenda, Choudary has no such inhibitions.

He has praised the 9/11 hijackers and has called for the execution of Pope Benedict. He also stirred controversy recently when video emerged of him converting a 10-year-old British boy to Islam.

Openly Praising Jihad

Choudary told CBN News his group is a “non-violent political and ideological movement” that resides in the UK under “a covenant of security.”

Yet he openly praises violent jihad.

“The Koran is full of, you know, jihad is the most talked about duty in the Koran other than tawhid – belief,” he said. “Nothing else is mentioned more than the topic of fighting.”

Several former members of Choudary’s group have been arrested on terrorism charges.

“A very significant amount of former al-Muhajiroun people were involved in terrorist plots against this country,” London-based terrorism expert Peter Neumann said. “A number of people have actually gone to Afghanistan, joined the Taliban and died fighting for the Taliban.”

Choudary refuses to condemn acts of terror including 9/11 and the July 7, 2005 London bombings, which killed 52 people.

Islam More than Religion

CBN News asked Choudary for his thoughts on the 7/7 bombings on London’s transport system, and whether he condemned them.

“For the people who carried it out, it was legitimate,” he replied. “If you look at the will of the 7/7 bombers Mohammed Siddique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, they would be justified. And there are many verses from the Koran and many statements to say that’s the Islamic argument. And that is a difficult Islamic argument to refute. And there are many scholars who support that argument as well.”

Choudary says his group is merely following core Islamic teachings and that Islam is much more than a religion.

“This particular belief is more than just a religion,” he declared. “It is not just a spiritual belief. It is, in fact, an ideology which you believe in and you struggle for and you are willing even to die for, because you believe in that: That is your whole life.”

Choudary seems to relish being called Great Britain’s “most hated man” and pledges to continue his rallies calling for the overthrow of the British system.

 

[Maria65]

And there you have it.

Don’t say you weren’t warned…

 

[planten]

And there you have it.

Don’t say you weren’t warned…

Whoever is that person (Chaudary) in UK is totally wrong. There is no violence in Islam. Suicide is Haraam. It is illegal to kill any innocent person indiscriminately. If at all, Islam tries to do justice. Nobody can be killed without proper trial in court.

There is absolutely no credit in the ideas of that chaudary. He is totally wrong. I do not know why the catholics are making that person a hero of Islam. That is bad work.

 

[Maria65]

Whoever is that person (Chaudary) in UK is totally wrong. There is no violence in Islam. Suicide is Haraam. It is illegal to kill any innocent person indiscriminately. If at all, Islam tries to do justice. Nobody can be killed without proper trial in court.

There is absolutely no credit in the ideas of that chaudary. He is totally wrong. I do not know why the catholics are making that person a hero of Islam. That is bad work.

Tell me, please, what color is the sky in your world?

 

[John7]

There is no violence in Islam.

Do you think mohammed beat his 6 yr-old wife because she wouldn’t have sex with him?

 

[planten]

Do you think mohammed beat his 6 yr-old wife because she wouldn’t have sex with him?

John7, I also ask you a question. Have you stopped beating your mother and stopped misusing her??? Give answer only Yes or No.

 

[planten]

Tell me, please, what color is the sky in your world?

Maria, whatever is the color of the sky, That Chaudary fellow in UK seems to be planted by the Catholics to harm the cause of the peaceful Muslims in UK. He seems to be playing the tune of the Catholics that islam is a violent religion. Yet he also says that he is non-violent:

Choudary told CBN News his group is a “non-violent political and ideological movement” that resides in the UK under “a covenant of security.”

What to believe???

 

[Vile_Servant]

ISLAM is derived from the Arabic root “SALEMA”: peace, purity, submission and obedience.

Any Muslim who preaches violence is not really a Muslim.

 

[Maria65]

Maria, whatever is the color of the sky, That Chaudary fellow in UK seems to be planted by the Catholics to harm the cause of the peaceful Muslims in UK. He seems to be playing the tune of the Catholics that islam is a violent religion. Yet he also says that he is non-violent:

What to believe???

Catholics did not make up that Islam is a violent religion. All anyone has to do to find out that Islam is a violent relgion is to read the Quran. Yes, I have a copy in my home. My son had to buy a copy for his World Religions class. We have both read from it. Have you read it?

Maybe you’ve been reading too many Jack Chick tracts.

 

[planten]

ISLAM is derived from the Arabic root “SALEMA”: peace, purity, submission and obedience.

Any Muslim who preaches violence is not really a Muslim.

Yes, agreed 100%. Muhammad was not the only messenger of Allah. There were many thousand messengers. Notable amongst them were those mentioned in bible and Quran. They were all peaceful persons, preaching peace. Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, issac, Jacob, Moses, Jesus, all were non-violent. So Quran tells us that they were all Muslims.

That does not mean they were followers of Muhammad. They were servants of God, the One God, preaching love and Peace and justice in the world. That is called Islam. We Muslims do not try to own Islam. We say that all prophets brought Islam and it belongs to every one.

There have been many Muslims amongst the Jews and the Christians. Similarly, many of the present day Muslims are not really Muslims…

 

[John7]

John7, I also ask you a question. Have you stopped beating your mother and stopped misusing her??? Give answer only Yes or No.

I’ll answer your question if you answer my question

 

[manualman]

Very little in the world of humanity is black and white. God is good, Satan is evil. Unfortunately, Satan like to dress himself as an angel of light (per the bible, not just me!). This is why you have guys like Jim Jones (a minister in the Disciples of Christ community) start cults and end up killing hundreds as well as muslims like this guy doing the same. Neither case conclusively proves the essential nature of Islam or (liberal) protestantism.

No amount of anecdotes can prove that Islam is from Satan or Christianity is the true faith. Neither is a monolith and BOTH contain horrific sinners and virtuous heroes. You have to take 15 steps back and look at the LONG run of history and examine the relative impacts each has had on the centuries of culture that they formed.

To me, this is where the serious flaws of Islam show most tellingly. From shortly after the time of Muhammed, Islam dominated (often by force) nearly every culture it came into contact with and absorbed and converted those cultures (again, often by force). For a time, the Islamic culture prospered and made gains by fusing the cultural strengths of the conquered peoples. It did a good job of recognizing good things in conquered nations and spreading the knowledge gained across its empire/caliphate. But it has certain inherent defects that has lead to its stagnation and prevents it from advancing too much further beyond the cultural maturity possessed by Muhammed himself. Muhammed lead wars, he had multiple wives, he told lies to enemies, he married an underage girl. He may have been extraordinarily virtuous by the standards of his day, but he’s practically a cave man by today’s standards, ones that have been developed modeled on JESUS.

Christianity, on the other hand, is not so limited. With Jesus himself (God incarnate) as the basis of our ideal of perfection, there is no inherent ceiling to the positive cultural influence our faith exerts. Only unfaithfulness to HIM can cause us to reverse the progress we’ve made culturally in the last 2,000 years. Unfortunately, that’s exactly what is happening. It is quite possible for Western nations to go apostate so badly that we end up LESS culturally virtuous than the Islamic world. If that happens, watch for US to become the stagnant and self-destructive culture. We may all end up dhimmi yet, but only if we deserve it (ala the Israelite Babylonian captivity).

 

[Nine_Two]

ISLAM is derived from the Arabic root “SALEMA”: peace, purity, submission and obedience.

Any Muslim who preaches violence is not really a Muslim.

Islam is derived from a word meaning peace, but itself means submission.

That’s like saying rainstorm and rainbow are synonymous because they both come from the same root “rain”.

 

[Kadaveri]

I resent how the media makes this guy out to be some kind of Muslim leader. He’s just a nobody who says provocative things on the internet, gives himself eccentric titles which don’t exist and every now and then announces marches which never materialise.

 

[Vile_Servant]

I resent how the media makes this guy out to be some kind of Muslim leader. He’s just a nobody who says provocative things on the internet, gives himself eccentric titles which don’t exist and every now and then announces marches which never materialise.

There are black sheep in every religion.

 

[mark_a]

The real problem with Islam is that each is his own authority. Sounds familiar doesn’t it?

 

[planten]

Catholics did not make up that Islam is a violent religion. All anyone has to do to find out that Islam is a violent relgion is to read the Quran. Yes, I have a copy in my home. My son had to buy a copy for his World Religions class. We have both read from it. Have you read it?

Maybe you’ve been reading too many Jack Chick tracts.

Maria, yourself and the other christians here are posting that Islam is a violent religion.They do it by reference with Quran. That Chaudary is doing the same thing. Is it not??

So you are all hand in glove with that Chaudary !!! You have proved it yourself by your above post. No further proof is needed. Chaudary seems to be one of your tools in Britian.

 

[planten]

I’ll answer your question if you answer my question

John7, Then please keep on waiting for the reply till doomsday !!!

 

[planten]

You seem to be right in introducing that Chaudary fellow. He believes that islam is violent. You also believe the same. So what can we say about it !!!

I see the Catholics are now joining the Jews on your mental list of those secretly running the world and with undue influence. Wny don’t you tell us about how the Pope is the chief abusers amongst the Catholic abusers as you did once long ago?

You see omething that I may not understand. I hope the Pope is not a Jew. One of the last Popes had absolved the Jews from the murder of Jesus. Things are changing so fast. What can we expect next. I do not blame the Jews for anything any more.

Much as I find much of the talk about Islam here generalised and driven by a need to make Islam and Muslims into collective cultural bogeymen you don’t do any favours for your side Planten with this kind of rambling, chaotic rubbish.

Your English is high class for me to understand. I would rather prefer some advice in simple words. Thanks.

 

[planten]

Very little in the world of humanity is black and white. God is good, Satan is evil. Unfortunately, Satan like to dress himself as an angel of light (per the bible, not just me!). This is why you have guys like Jim Jones (a minister in the Disciples of Christ community) start cults and end up killing hundreds as well as muslims like this guy doing the same. Neither case conclusively proves the essential nature of Islam or (liberal) protestantism.

Fair expression, quite good.

No amount of anecdotes can prove that Islam is from Satan or Christianity is the true faith. Neither is a monolith and BOTH contain horrific sinners and virtuous heroes. You have to take 15 steps back and look at the LONG run of history and examine the relative impacts each has had on the centuries of culture that they formed.

Again, well done and well said…

To me, this is where the serious flaws of Islam show most tellingly. From shortly after the time of Muhammed, Islam dominated (often by force) nearly every culture it came into contact with and absorbed and converted those cultures (again, often by force). For a time, the Islamic culture prospered and made gains by fusing the cultural strengths of the conquered peoples. It did a good job of recognizing good things in conquered nations and spreading the knowledge gained across its empire/caliphate.

It was not spread entirely by force. It was spread by its good principles.

But it has certain inherent defects that has lead to its stagnation and prevents it from advancing too much further beyond the cultural maturity possessed by Muhammed himself

.
You see some defects in Islam which you have explained in next para. They are inherent defects. I hope you would do justice of same kind of investigation into the christian faith too.

Muhammed lead wars, he had multiple wives, he told lies to enemies, he married an underage girl. He may have been extraordinarily virtuous by the standards of his day, but he’s practically a cave man by today’s standards, ones that have been developed modeled on JESUS.

Muhammad lead wars because he was forced into those wars by the pagans and Christians… He married more than one wife. That was no crime. Other prophets before him had multiple wives. You are judging Muhammad by your christian standard which is faulty.
You have accused Muhammad of marrying an under age girl. That is false. You do not remember that all the other wives of Muhammad were either widows or over aged divorced ladies. Aisha, whom you say was under age, was about 16 years old when she was married to Muhammad.

If Muhammad was a caveman by todays standard, please judge your religious leaders after the disappearance of Jesus. They were also cavemen, hiding in caves for about 300 years. Their manuscripts (Scrolls) are being discovered nowadays. Could you please malign your cavemen too by the standard of todays advancements???

Christianity, on the other hand, is not so limited. With Jesus himself (God incarnate) as the basis of our ideal of perfection, there is no inherent ceiling to the positive cultural influence our faith exerts.

This is untrue. God did not incarnate into another body. That is a false doctrine of incarnation. Nobody, except Hindus will believe you. The Jews (your seniors) and Muslims (Your juniors) will not believe it at all. So you are at fault, i.e. the odd one out in this matter sandwiched in the middle.

Only unfaithfulness to HIM can cause us to reverse the progress we’ve made culturally in the last 2,000 years

.
You have no hand in any progress. You could not add and subtract with your Roman Catholic numerology. Try to add XVI to CIX. and let me know the answer please. I will not ask you to multiply anything with those your number system.
The present day progress was only possible when church stopped meddling with science. So the mathematicians and scientists were free to explore and investigate things. Otherwise, in the time of Galileo, the church was seriously punishing the investigators.

Unfortunately, that’s exactly what is happening. It is quite possible for Western nations to go apostate so badly that we end up LESS culturally virtuous than the Islamic world. If that happens, watch for US to become the stagnant and self-destructive culture. We may all end up dhimmi yet, but only if we deserve it (ala the Israelite Babylonian captivity).

No comments about your vague statements.