Muslims belief+compared to catholism??

[godsent]

I have been told by a few people i.e muslims,that jesus was gods first attempt for christianity and when the romans killed jesus,god thought,"right so they turned down christianity,lets start a new one,and sent for mohammad to preach the word of allah!
If this is true,why do people still belive in christianity if islam was the second try after christinaity?

Im sooo confused on this subject??
Any help much appreciated!!

 

[Shinobu]

Why would God go for a “second try” when he already knows the outcome of everything? If Jesus was a “failed attempt” why would he have tried it at all?

 

[Darrel]

godsent:

I have been told by a few people i.e muslims,that jesus was gods first attempt for christianity and when the romans killed jesus,god thought,"right so they turned down christianity,lets start a new one,and sent for mohammad to preach the word of allah!
If this is true,why do people still belive in christianity if islam was the second try after christinaity?

Im sooo confused on this subject??
Any help much appreciated!!

Muhammad was a false prophet. Islam states that both Christ and Moses were prophets. They embrace murder as a legit form evangilization. There is a saying from them “the quran or the sword”. Take a look at places like Iran to observe the fruit of Islam. American Islam is peaceful because the system wont allow them fully practice what they believe. (except in prisons of course.)

-D

 

[seeker123]

they say Mohammed (pbuh) forcibly converted others to Islam with his sword.
I guess mohammed (pbuh) was super strong and invincible, to go around the entire middle east and just converting people forcibly left and right all by himself!
How can a single man forcibly convert thousands and thousands of people to Islam within 23 years?
No, he did not convert anybody forcibly, people reverted to Islam because of his preaching and because of the nature of Islam. It is the perfect and true religion.

And what about today? even today thousands of christians worldwide are reverting to Islam? Is Mohammed (pbuh) coming up to them with his “sword” and forcibly converting them?

This things are just lies and the reason these people are spreading them is because they’re threatened. The know the truth but they still will not accept it, and the only way they can prevent others from doing so is by spreading lies.

Muslims only made war to counter others aggression against us. Muslims killed in defense of ourselves and in service to God. It was the “infidels” which persecuted us. Mohammad(P.B.U.H.) only took life when he had to. Muslims murdered no one, accept for corruption or aggression. Mohammad(pbuh) tought that there is to be no compulsion in religion. Isa Al-Masiah(Jesus Christ) will one day return as a warrior. Jesus when he returns, will conquer the whole world for God. The crucificion was a myth, and Mohammad(pbuh) only shed blood justly. Mohammad(pbuh), like Jesus, ascended into heaven and did not die. Muslims, like the Catholic, Calvinists, Etc., did indeed execute apostates from the faith. Since temporal authority was linked with ecclesiastical authority, all treason against the Din(faith) was considered to be treason against the Umma(nation) as well. The Torah even proscribes death to all who turn against the God of Abraham. Of course since the Catholic church is no longer the legaly established religion in any modern state, one may forsake the Church with impunity. So as you can see no religion as a whole has been completely non-violent, but at least Islam promotes non-aggression. Hope that helped.

 

[CreosMary]

I can see this is going to be a strange thread, thats if it lasts.

Christ is the living son of God, and as the Church teaches there is no more revelations after the dealth of the last Apostle. This excludes Mohammed as a viable and God sent voice.
There is no doubt that a good and Faithful muslim is as the same in God’s eyes as a good and Faithful Catholic, however the Catholic Church is God’s chosen vehicle for salvation.
God Bless

 

[mjdonnelly]

One of our first dealings with a Muslim state was them trying extortion with us, then they declared war on us when we wouldn’t pay.

Yep, wholesome group there.

 

[Fox]

I’ve spent time deployed in the Middle East and talked to many Muslims. They believe that Jesus was a revered prophet, nothing more. They don’t believe that Jesus is the Son of God our Father.

They believe that Jesus was not crucifed and that it was one of His apostles that had a strong resemblence ot Jesus perhaps St Jude or maybe Judas.

They believe that Jesus was taken to heaven body and soul to be with the other prophets like Elijah, Ibrahim (Abraham) and Adam etc…

Muslims do believe in an end time and it will be Jesus the prophet, to be sent by Allah to set the world straight.

Seeker,
I beg to differ, are you implying that Christianity promotes violence?

 

[seeker123]

lets just say christianity judaism and islam all promote the same beleifs about violence. and leave it at that.

 

[scylla]

We can also just go to this sort of discussion…Now I am a pretty new revert to the Catholic Faith, but I will try and make a good point.

Let’s ignore the discussions of violence of the religions and start with the basis of them.

What can prove that the Quran is inspired and the Word of God?

What can prove that the Bible is inspired and the Word of God?

First we need to look at Jesus, no-one did what he did and said what he said. He claimed to be the Son of God and people who witnessed his teaching supported it. Through great persecution with nothing to gain, unless they fully believed his teaching and resurrection. Most everyone who was with him left him immediately when he died, they could have just gone on with their lives immediatly afterward, if he was false. Unless he did come back, these people turned from scared runaways to brave martyrs, willing to do whatever it takes to spread the message. Dying horrible deaths, not for no reason.
Jesus appointed these followers as his Church, They in turn had the authority given by Him, to lead the Church to create the Bible. There is no evidence of the claims of Mohammed until he came along with his inspiration.
Islam comes in a direct contradiction to the Bible and does not provide the completion or logical fulfillment of the Old Testament. Now as a simplification of the Christian religion it borrows some beliefs, but denies the deity of Jesus or even his effectiveness.

This is akin to saying God sent Jesus, but he didn’t do his job properly so he had to send Mohammed. Doesn’t this diminish the power of God, why would he establish a Church, then allow it to fail. Did God abandon the Jews? He let them suffer their persecution, but he always fullfilled his promises. He then extended his covenant with the Jews to the rest of the world.
Did He make a mistake in doing this and have to start over with Mohammed? Why is the Quran true?

 

[Ghosty]

I don’t believe that Islam is some bloodthirsty religion bent on the destruction of non-Muslims, but I do think that Islam represents a VERY poor understanding of history. They make claims about Jesus and his followers that are refuted by very early non-Christian sources, such as Josephus’ “History of the Jews” and the Talmud. They make claims about the Bible having been corrupted, yet we have copies of Scripture from CENTURIES before Mohammed that are identical to what we see after Islam was created. We have non-Scriptural writings by Christians from less than a century after the death of Jesus that support the Catholic beliefs of Christianity.

Personally I think that Mohammed honestly didn’t know what he was talking about when it comes to Christian history, and the claims that Islam makes about Christianity, which are easily proven historically false without even having to prove Christianity correct, demonstrate that Islam is a false religion. I believe they are sincere in their worship of the God of Abraham, and they are our monotheistic brothers in that regard, but their religion is built purely on sand.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

“A rich man is one with knowledge, happiness and his health
My mind had dealt with the books of Zen, Tao the lessons
Koran and the Bible, to me they all vital
And got truth within 'em, gotta read them boys
You just can’t skim 'em, different branches of belief
But one root that stem 'em, but people of the venom try to trim 'em
And use religion as an emblem
When it should be a natural way of life
Who am I or they to say to whom you pray ain’t right
That’s who got you doin right and got you this far
Whether you say ‘in Jesus name’ or ‘Al hum du’Allah’
Long as you know it’s a being that’s supreme to you
You let that show towards others in the things you do”

• Common Sense (who is a devout muslim)

 

[Darrel]

seeker123:

lets just say christianity judaism and islam all promote the same beleifs about violence. and leave it at that.

I think not,

There is no way in this world that God would allow murder as an accepted means of evangelization. God gives us free will, Islam takes it away in the name of God. This alone proves that Islam is a false religion that embraces evil in the ‘good’ Lords name. I never see the Catholic Church giving women who are pregnant 150 lashes for adultery which is a total death sentence. Christians in the year 2005 do not enter into sadistic barbaric actions rooted in hate. Unfortunately Islam does.

-D

 

[seeker123]

this isnt gonna go anywhere but what the heck, i need a break from my exams:
i got this question answer thing from anothers site forum. maybe it should answer your questions
why would God bless mary with a baby as a virgin if he wasnt the son of God?
Allah does what he wills. The question doesn’t logically make sense. This is like asking why would Allah create Adam out of dust if Adam wasn’t son of God?
Answer is: Adam isn’t son of God, he is merely his creation.

Why does anyone reproduce? Because they themselves will die and they need successors. This is true of all species.
Is God going to ever die? No. Then why would he need a son? The whole thing just doesn’t make sense.

If he wasnt the son of God also how could he be sinless?
That is not the islamic belief. Everybody is born free of sin, a Muslim. His/her actions and words in this world make him a sinner(or a good person).
God is just. He never does any injustice.
Where would be the justice in all of us being born sinners?
Why are we supposedly sinners by birth anyway?
Because Adam ate the forbidden apple?
But doesn’t it say somewhere in the bible that children are not to blame for the sins of their father? Then why should we be blamed? Why should we be born sinners? And even if we are sinners, why should Christ suffer for us? Why would he be punished? where’s the justice in this? This whole concept is so self-contradicting. I’m sure that most christians as children have had questions about this, but have been hushed by their parents and have just accepted this as reality even though it doesn’t make any sense.

By the way did you know that there are more than 50,000+ known errors and contradictions in the Bible? You should do some research on the internet.

I just cant see how God can have a son, how God, if he did have a son, make his son die, because if he is God, he would save his son?no? I cant see why i would have to pray to an intermediary and not directly to God…i would think that sort of peeves him off…wouldnt you? Also why would all of a sudden God just procreate a son, when history has shown hes only sent down messengers to preach the same word, which is worship God alone…from Moses(pbuh) to David(pbuh) to Abraham(pbuh). Muhammed(pbuh) was an illiterate man who couldnt read or write…its impossible to have written such a book like that by even an educated man…The best poets of that time could not have even reproduced such a work. The Koran even talks about the development of the embryo , which wasnt even near getting discovered at that time. And as a med school student, ive read the description in the Koran, and its accurate. It makes sense to me that God would send a last prophet to comeplete his word since the corruption of the bible had occured .the gospel sent from Allah was lost. the present day gospels have been written by human beings. ever take theology? they all know that christianity today isn’t what it was before Constantine. back then christians believed in one God and that Jesus (pbuh) was his messenger. It was during his reign, that christianity absorbed pagan elements and became the present day christianity.

Dont get me wrong though, i respect people of the book as do all muslims, and you all should get those misconceptions out of your head about how we hate our christian and jewish brothers…heck id say 60% of my friends are catholic, and i might marry one soon.

 

[Darrel]

seeker123:

this isnt gonna go anywhere but what the heck, i need a break from my exams:
i got this question answer thing from anothers site forum. maybe it should answer your questions
why would God bless mary with a baby as a virgin if he wasnt the son of God?
Allah does what he wills. The question doesn’t logically make sense. This is like asking why would Allah create Adam out of dust if Adam wasn’t son of God?
Answer is: Adam isn’t son of God, he is merely his creation.

Why does anyone reproduce? Because they themselves will die and they need successors. This is true of all species.
Is God going to ever die? No. Then why would he need a son? The whole thing just doesn’t make sense.

If he wasnt the son of God also how could he be sinless?
That is not the islamic belief. Everybody is born free of sin, a Muslim. His/her actions and words in this world make him a sinner(or a good person).
God is just. He never does any injustice.
Where would be the justice in all of us being born sinners?
Why are we supposedly sinners by birth anyway?
Because Adam ate the forbidden apple?
But doesn’t it say somewhere in the bible that children are not to blame for the sins of their father? Then why should we be blamed? Why should we be born sinners? And even if we are sinners, why should Christ suffer for us? Why would he be punished? where’s the justice in this? This whole concept is so self-contradicting. I’m sure that most christians as children have had questions about this, but have been hushed by their parents and have just accepted this as reality even though it doesn’t make any sense.

By the way did you know that there are more than 50,000+ known errors and contradictions in the Bible? You should do some research on the internet.

I just cant see how God can have a son, how God, if he did have a son, make his son die, because if he is God, he would save his son?no? I cant see why i would have to pray to an intermediary and not directly to God…i would think that sort of peeves him off…wouldnt you? Also why would all of a sudden God just procreate a son, when history has shown hes only sent down messengers to preach the same word, which is worship God alone…from Moses(pbuh) to David(pbuh) to Abraham(pbuh). Muhammed(pbuh) was an illiterate man who couldnt read or write…its impossible to have written such a book like that by even an educated man…The best poets of that time could not have even reproduced such a work. The Koran even talks about the development of the embryo , which wasnt even near getting discovered at that time. And as a med school student, ive read the description in the Koran, and its accurate. It makes sense to me that God would send a last prophet to comeplete his word since the corruption of the bible had occured .the gospel sent from Allah was lost. the present day gospels have been written by human beings. ever take theology? they all know that christianity today isn’t what it was before Constantine. back then christians believed in one God and that Jesus (pbuh) was his messenger. It was during his reign, that christianity absorbed pagan elements and became the present day christianity.

Dont get me wrong though, i respect people of the book as do all muslims, and you all should get those misconceptions out of your head about how we hate our christian and jewish brothers…heck id say 60% of my friends are catholic, and i might marry one soon.

Please justify this action to me. I want to know if it is Holy and from God. The tree is known by it’s fruit.

gulfnews.com/Articles/NationNF.asp?ArticleID=156102

-D

 

[Ghosty]

Is God going to ever die? No. Then why would he need a son? The whole thing just doesn’t make sense.

That’s not what being the Son of God means. The Son is not anything like a child. The Son is a manifestation of God, we also call Him Logos, “The Word”. The Son is the humble side of God, the God that helps His people and who teaches us. The Father is the ruling side of God, the God that makes laws and demands obedience. The Holy Spirit is the breath of God, the touch of God, the side of God that is Life in all things, and brings all things closer to understanding.

One of the problems with Islam is that it makes up definitions of what The Son means and then tells us Christians that we are wrong, without ever trying to understand why we use the words we use, or what they mean.

they all know that christianity today isn’t what it was before Constantine. back then christians believed in one God and that Jesus (pbuh) was his messenger. It was during his reign, that christianity absorbed pagan elements and became the present day christianity.

This is absolutely incorrect. We have the writtings of the Christians from before Constantine, and they are identical to the teachings of the Catholic Church. In fact, the Church USES those writings to teach people today. This is a perfect example of the lies and myths that Islam pushes in order to justify itself.

 

[memnoch_lover]

why would God bless mary with a baby as a virgin if he wasnt the son of God?
answer…isaiah says chapter 53:10 the lord says it was my will that he will suffer his death was a sacrifice to bring forgoveness…this is the prophecy of isiah of jesus death,

how can The Son of God die?the son of god can die as a man if he will take a human body. That is why in Johns Gospel it says… in the beginning was the Word the Word was with God . The Word was God… The Word was made flesh. in short INCARNATION.

How can the incarnation be effected?it was through a woman… named mary to fulfill the prophecy of isaiah that a virgin shall be with a child his name is emmanuel meaning God With Us…The incarnation is indeed God with Us. God shares our humanity.

Why is there a need of incarnation?answer… man is finite what ever man does to atone his sin in not enough to the infinite God.

So? Son of God who is infinite became man to represent man the sinner at thesame time infinite because he is Son of God…

So that when jesus the incarnate God made his atonement of the cross… he fully represent man because he became man and the value of the atonement was infinite because he himself is the Son of god made man…

because the value of the atonement was infinite it was therefore sufficient to pay for mans sins.

 

[memnoch_lover]

Is God going to ever die? No. God cannot die…

in john it says… the Word was God and the Word was made flesh…

Human has two component the physical body and the human soul.

when the Word united himself with the human nature he as man has both human soul and physical body…The Word is united to both component of human.

When jesus dies on the cross that is the soul left the body the divine Word is present in both despite separation, untill they are inited again at the time of resurrection…

Therefore God cannot die because he is present in the soul that lives after death of the physical body

 

[memnoch_lover]

Then why would he need a son?When christians says Son of God it does not imply biological concept of sONHOOD that is produce thruogh sex. If you have that concept you are are wrong in the first place and no need to prceed further.

the correct one should be like this

1. God always exists
2. there is no way of thinking about God except He that always exist
3. Therefore if God’s thought has of himself is to be complete, and infinitely perfect it must include, encompass, embrace, or incorporate existence
4. Hence, God’s thought has of himself must have a distinct existence of its own siince existence is included and incorporated in that perfect and infinitely complete thought of himself.
5. God who produces the living thought of himself is the Father since he is the origin… and the living thought of Himself who is produced by the Fathers mind is the Son.

the Son is not created by the father because knowledge of oneself is not something created by intelligent beings like God… it is ones nature that he knows himself especially God who is all knowing.

Gods knowledge of himself has been with him since eternity because there was no time that God does not know himself. That is why the Word was in the beginning. the Word was with God and the Word was God…

This Word is the knowledge of Himself complete and infinitely perfect… the great " I AM I AM"

 

[Ghosty]

Another point that my friend brought up is that “Son of God” has unique implications in the Aramaic and Hebrew of the day. When Jews criticize Christians, they don’t say we’re saying that God had a child, but that we are putting a human on the level of God. They understand exactly what is meant by Son of God even though they disagree with our belief that Jesus was Him. Obviously Muslims have a completely contrary understanding of the language being used.

 

[memnoch_lover]

If he wasnt the son of God also how could he be sinless?
answer…concept of original sin

God had a perfect reason of created adam since God is perfect. To God adam was all Good since God cannot created Bad.

Since adam was Good adam therefore enjoys Gods full favor of friendsship. This friendship is not only for adam but adams children will inherit this friendship God gave to adam.

However adam disobeyed God. God therefore took away his friendship with adam. since adam is not anymore a friend of God adams children did not inherit this friendship given by God.
therefore adam and his descendants were cut off of the favor of God.Man cannot restore the friendship with God since man is finite whatever he does to repent is always short of what is due to the infinite God.

therefore all men suffers the results of adam sin… that each man born has the original sin that adam did.

however… in preparation of the incarnation of the son of God. The body of the Son of God must be sinless… because Son of God cannot dwell in the womb of a woman who is stained with original sin.That is incompatible…

The angel Gabriel said rejoice dauther of zion God has found favor with you…So God restore his friendship with mary in preparation of the incarnation of the son of God.

Since God gave mary his favor of frienship mary was therefore exempted from original sin… and in the body of this mary was to be derived the human nature of the Son of God.

since the body of mary was free from the original sin therefore the body that is derived from it must also be free from original sin

therefore jesus is sinless in the sense that he is free from original sin