Muslims, Christians, and the Trinity

[gallardo]

Just look at the things the O.T. God does! Worldwide floods, killing, hateful smites, and dislocation are common themes of the O.T. Why would a God who loves people do that?

Because they (Jews) voilate God’s laws, as much as Christians. It is the same God we have now as we had before Jesus.So if you do what Jews did you too are subject to the same Punishment of God In other words your are not better than those Jews upon whom wrath of God came and will come. Other wise the following passages are meaningless:

Revelation 2

18
16 "To the angel of the church in Thyatira, 17 write this: " 'The Son of God, whose eyes are like a fiery flame and whose feet are like polished brass, says this:
19
"I know your works, your love, faith, service, and endurance, and that your last works are greater than the first.
20
Yet I hold this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, who teaches and misleads my servants to play the harlot and to eat food sacrificed to idols. 18
21
**I have given her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her harlotry. **
22
**So I will cast her on a sickbed and plunge those who commit adultery with her into intense suffering unless they repent of her works. **
23
I will also put her children 19 to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds and that I will give each of you what your works deserve.

and:
Matthew 5
20 ** I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven**
(TheNew American Bible)

 

[Ahimsa]

e floods, killing, hateful smites, and dislocation are common themes of the O.T. Why would a God who loves people do that?

You read the Bible way too literally.

 

[Abraxsis]

Some of the stories in the bible are literal. There was a program on National Geographic last month that found scientific evidence of the great flood and of the parting of the red sea.

The O.T. God does the punishments he does because he doesnt know there is someone above him.

For example the story of Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis. The serpent is a hero! he shows man the true path and a jealous false God punish them for learning.

 

[gallardo]

The O.T. God does the punishments he does because he doesnt know there is someone above him.

OT God does the punsihment and he does because he doen’t know there is someone above him??!! This is classical.

You mean Ot God is a lesser God than the Real One God ? How may Gods are there?

 

[Abraxsis]

There is only one God depending on what you define as “God.” There is only one.

Look at the 10 commandments.

“Thou shall not have other Gods before me.”

Here the O.T. god acknowledges that other Gods exist!

 

[gallardo]

There is only one God depending on what you define as “God.” There is only one.

Look at the 10 commandments.

“Thou shall not have other Gods before me.”

Here the O.T. god acknowledges that other Gods exist!

are you out of your mind?

God is not a man…nor there are other Gods.
What the Comm. 10 is saying is you should not worship Gods that don’t even exist because there is ONE GOD only.

And there is no such thing as “Gods”. God with capital “G” represents only one God. If you think there are others then they may be gods and not Gods. Like all Jews “are” (were) gods…and cetainly they “are”(were) not Gods:

“I have said, Ye (Jews) are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes” (Psalm 82:6-7). KJV Bible

 

[Abraxsis]

God is not a man. Im sorry if I didnt make that very clear.

Also, the way you see the commandments are very orthodox. Where you see black I see white. The “God” that created the world is an archon. That is a better term for this discussion. People have a divine spark in them, we too are god-like but are not archons. We can create and destroy. You can even do magic, divinations, and other things that would be considered archon powers.

 

[inJESUS]

The OP seems to be plagued by contradictions. First:

you made it contradictory by cutting the Fr. sentences.

If the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are not different…then in what way are they three? Surely there must be a difference, or else there would be no way to distinguish one person from another.

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*That is a very good point, Ham…!

…and that is precisely the mistake that the polytheists fall into.

The Trinity is “3” because we have been told that God is three persons. We have not been told that God is four persons, or two persons, but rather three persons.

You have been told that God is one “thing”, which really can’t be described as a “person” at all.

That’s what you’ve been told by your “prophet”.

We’ve been told not only by our Prophet, but by our actual God.

Why should we discount what our God has told us, because of what your “prophet” has told you?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.*

Your actual God told you that, eh? I didn’t think you all believed that God has sent anything down since the death of your prophet. I thought he sealed prophethood, but I guess I was wrong, as your actual God told you.

We are only telling what our “prophet” Who IS Our “actual God” (and your Quran tells you we so believe) said, so I don’t understand your distinction.

You’ll have to explain that last paragraph to me in english, as I didn’t quite catch your meaning in that jumble of words above. Thanks in advance for the clarification.

The word of your God (kalaam Allaah) I thought was contained in a written work, or its recited speech. A rather limited limited concept of God,…that is precisely the mistake materialists fall into. Is it eternal speech, or created?

The “word(s) of your god (so-called ‘allah’)” are a collection of writings.

The Word of God is a person of the Triune God.

God is not “writings”. Your level of knowledge of the Christian understanding of God is even worse that I thought if you think we think that God is “writings”.

To Allah is the East and the West, why then do you have to bow to a stone cube, with what inside (do you know?). And why kiss a black stone? Venerating stones, it is precisely the mistake idolators fall into.

Now I’m totally confused. Now you sound like an “anti-moslem”.

Is there some “medication” involved here, or has your computer been hijacked?

Very much looking forward to further discussions with the two of you. Hurry back…! Love 'ya…!

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[jkatpc]

It is more like the Sun seen in the sky (Father), the Light that it produces (Son) and the Heat it emits (Spirit), three energies but one sun.

Although all analogies used to explain the Trinity fall short, this is probably the best I’ve heard so far.

 

[paarsurrey]

Although all analogies used to explain the **Trinity **fall short, this is probably the best I’ve heard so far.

Hi

Jesus , in my opinion, was not killed on Cross, he died a natural death in Kashmir, India.

All physical bodies and spirits are created by GodAllahYHWH, so the Spirit cannot be God, in my opinion.

This way two pillars/persons of Trinity are gone.

GodAllahYHWH is great, the Creator of everything in the Universe, Worthy of every Praise, the Unblemished.
Thanks

 

[jkatpc]

Hi

Jesus , in my opinion, was not killed on Cross, he died a natural death in Kashmir, India.

All physical bodies and spirits are created by GodAllahYHWH, so the Spirit cannot be God, in my opinion.

This way two pillars/persons of Trinity are gone.

GodAllahYHWH is great, the Creator of everything in the Universe, Worthy of every Praise, the Unblemished.
Thanks

With all due respect, how and where Jesus died is not a matter or opinion, but a matter of fact. Furthermore, I’m not sure what your comments have to do with my post, other than the general denial of the Trinity.

If you believe that God is love, or even that He loves us, then He must have loved before He created any of us. He is immutable, so he cannot be ascribed a condition which He has not always had. So, He loves and always has loved. But, to love requires a lover and one who is loved. If he loved before we were created, he must have loved Himself–as perfectly as on Person can love another Person. In fact, just call them separate persons. And, since that love between them is perfect and perfectly shared, and is distinct from the two, it must also be a distinct entity (Person) distinguishable but indissolvable from the first two.

Props to C.S. Lewis for this explanation!