Muslims. Does the Law Really Exist For You?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mosacked
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
That is a good start. But I have never visited that site.

Planten,

…would you mind if I stepped in? You’re Mohummad came along 600 years after Christ and yet by “divine” revelation Mohummad decided he knew better than Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. Mohummad is on the same grounds as Joseph Smith, they both chatted nonsense about something they were not alive to witness.
Welcome Rv Cain Spencer. I agree Muhammad came 600 years after Jesus. Do you agree that Jesus was a messenger of God who came 1400 years after Moses a.s.?? Why did Jesus have to come at all 1400 years after Moses??

According to your theory, Jesus must have known more than Moses that is why he started his own preachings. Otherwise the teachings of Moses were very much available in the people.

Please do not use strange unnatural uncommon terms here like the lamb of God. Next you will have Jesus as a son of God. Then you will progress further and you will make Jesus as The God.

Your words were nonsense about something that you did not witness / comprehend. To me, Joseph Smith may be a lot better person than any or all of you. I do not know what he taught. But I know what you saying.
 
Welcome Rv Cain Spencer. I agree Muhammad came 600 years after Jesus.
And yet he knew everything that happened even to Mary.
Do you agree that Jesus was a messenger of God who came 1400 years after Moses a.s.??
Jesus is the Lord, Yahway, the “I am”, God. The final sacrifice so that no more blood should flow for the sake of our pityful sins.
According to your theory, Jesus must have known more than Moses that is why he started his own preachings.
Jesus is Lord, who knows all, all he did not tell was the end of time.
Otherwise the teachings of Moses were very much available in the people.
They lost the meaning.
Please do not use strange unnatural uncommon terms here like the lamb of God.
You know exactly what Lamb of God means, so do the jews.
Next you will have Jesus as a son of God.
As you already know and seem to know well.
Then you will progress further and you will make Jesus as The God.
Keep proclaiming him and maybe it will save you, Planten.
Your words were nonsense about something that you did not witness.
God is Lord, the all seeing, all knowing living God. What doesn’t he know?
 
Planten,

I am not ignorant about Islam. Terrorism does not come to my mind when I think of muslims.
 
Welcome Rv Cain Spencer. I agree Muhammad came 600 years after Jesus. Do you agree that Jesus was a messenger of God who came 1400 years after Moses a.s.?? Why did Jesus have to come at all 1400 years after Moses??

According to your theory, Jesus must have known more than Moses that is why he started his own preachings. Otherwise the teachings of Moses were very much available in the people.

Please do not use strange unnatural uncommon terms here like the lamb of God. Next you will have Jesus as a son of God. Then you will progress further and you will make Jesus as The God.

Your words were nonsense about something that you did not witness / comprehend. To me, Joseph Smith may be a lot better person than any or all of you. I do not know what he taught. But I know what you saying.
But do you know what You are saying? Because I seriously don’t cos your questions’ answers can all be found in the Bible which I have to presume apparently that you have never read.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.
 
seraphime, you are making a new law from your own mind. i.e. one wife for one man. It is not even written in your bible. Even Joseph the carpentar (the father of Jesus) had more than one wife. One of those wives was Mary. I feel that Jews have the laws. The Muslims also have their laws. The christians have no laws. Therefore they should not try to discuss marriage or divorce matters with muslims. The christians even do not understand what Jesus wanted. The christians are not living in the way Jesus was living.
Did I? I thought we all believe (Christian and Muslim) that when God created Adam, he created only one partner for Adam. Hence we believe that equality was designed by God from the beginning. Doesn’t the Koran even say that when God create living creatures, He created them in pairs (it seem as one to one for me). So it was all from the beginning that God wanted man and woman to be equal, one soul joins another soul to become one, not several soul of women and one man…Did Adam then refused the condition by asking God to give him more partners? Never…C’mon. Do you believe that one single woman is not equal with one single man?

You say that Christian have no laws…ha…ha…ha…Jesus have said that all the law spring from the fountain in believing and loving God, and equally believing that we have to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. That is one true and highest law to check whether what you have done come from those law. So if you take so many wives, are u actually putting yourself as equal to those women? Would you be willing to be treated the same as one of the wives if u’re the man? C’mon it’s really simple and it doesn’t need all meticulous, engineered man made law to justify your greediness.

The situation was different to Joseph if u can only come with that sample. He had no other wives at the time of marrying Mary, he was a widower.

Ah…I can see many examples of Muslim law and its application to rules and regulation,…believe me I was astounded, the clerics of the muslims here in Indonesia had come announcing that perming or straighten hair for girls are considered Haram (unlawful). I was having a good laugh at this silliness. So then basically all women are not encouraged to do all the make up and grade up physically because of men inability to control their lust…? And then the Friday sermon I overheard here saying that Islam had been given a new law of not practicing “adapting son and daughter” because when Muhammad took his stepson’s wife, it’s a guidance from Allah that adoption is not a good practice (seemed that lusty Muhammad is better than average people who would never think it’s ok to take stepson’s wife).

Now, you’re all pointing that Jesus can not be God, just a mere human prophet sent to Jews. Didn’t we can also argue that in our eyes Muhammad prophethood was so much in questions because he didn’t even able to keep one single command of the law of 10 commandments which is basically have all the elements to direct you of being just and good humane?

Say that Moses did broke the law of killing, but he only broke that one. Did he break the other? No
Say that King David broke the law of coveting other’s wife, but he was chastised by God and he was regretful. He didn’t break other law.
They were all sinful, but they were not to skip the consequences. Unlike your prophet that say it was all ok, and even God had granted him all the permission to do all what he liked. Muslim only developing ideology that Muhammad was sinless.
Muhammad did not break any law that was given to him. The 10 commandments were for the Jews and Jesus. They were for the disciples of Jesus and all those who wanted to follow Jesus. They were not for Muhammad or his followers. Muslims got new orders, new commands. which they follow very well even today…
See what I said about him. If he came with a new law that abolish those 10 commandments, then we can make a conclusion that he was not bringing the law to enlighten human being. He only came with all those law that seem rational and adaptable to him for the situation that was applicable at the time of his life. He didn’t have the slightest ray of light of what was needed to be fully humane at all time and all place. Do you think that all those law can only apply to Jewish. Even the practice of Sabbath (even if it’s not all agreed to be Saturday) apply to all nation now, we all do have at least one day in a week to rest our mind, soul and body right? Is there the hole or bad law in all those 10 commandments that you can argue?
There are more than 600 commands in the Quran for the believers to follow. Not just 10 commands.
Doesn’t mean anything to the basic law that should come spring from your mind as what Jesus told: the golden rule and the highest law.
 
seraphime, Your God is Jesus and Jesus is your God. Please tell us why your God (Jesus) ordered Moses to kill the calf worshippers???
Did he order that? I guess you should look u to the bible to see the real history, not your Koran which came more than 2000 years later. And by the way, the Jewish is recording their own history, witnessing the downfall and the glorious moment of human being, when they relied upon themselves or when they relied upon God. Why shouldn’t we believe that even all the prophets had their downfall and their glorious moment? We can all learn from their mistakes and their success. So what can we learn as human being if your Koran never tell that all human being can learn something from figures like what the Bible tell?

You really have no clue of what is the message of the Bible. You have no clue of what the real message of God. You think that God cannot work together with human being to make human being learn from his mistakes and his success. You think that God cannot be partner with human being that muslim create the suggestion of how a final message should be delivered by God through dictation.
Why it will not work. Why not stick to good words, good behaviour??
Ok, I agree that good work and good behaviour is the thing that should be taken as the fruit of life. But if you have different measurement stick then we would all be rather confused.
 
I say i reckon i follow, if i am off track sorry not real good with English and don’t know bold word meaning.

G-d bless you pray well and stay well

“I will be what I will be”, you have free will so choose who you see
I’m sorry SJ, it took me so long to answer ( I got some health issue). I was the one who probably chose the unusual word of syncretism, (is it English or not, I don’t know for sure…:D). It’s sort of assorted collection of diverse things, or perhaps it’s sort of eclectic approach ( I hope this explains…sorry my English is also not good.)

But, as Catholic as the word suggest, actually had accommodated many different culture of it’s followers. But it seems to be more cultural matter than the real official teaching of Catholics. Even some of the priests of Catholic have gone further of learning some methods that were more in practice in eastern religion, like meditation and others (don’t know much though about this). But we still have the foundation of the catholic teachings that holds the matter in right way.
 
Mosacked,

Have you read the Koran? How many real life, everyday Muslims do you know? Where have you gotten your information about Islam? In my field of study, the worst possible thing you can do is to pretend to be an expert about something you have no knowledge about.

If I may, let me offer my humble opinion about the tension between Muslims and Christians. I am no expert on Islam or a scholar of religion or politics. This is my humble take on the situation. I welcome any expert on the subject to offer any additions or corrections.

I have a few friends, good people, who are Muslim and from Muslim backgrounds. Believe it or not, they live the same way we do. They work to make money, and support their families and feed their children, all while trying to live a moral life. My experience, and the laws of statistics suggest that this is the case for the majority of Muslims. (If all Muslims were suicide bombers and spent all day thinking about the demise of the West, all practitioners of Islam would be dead.)

Perhaps it’s possible that the tension and violence between Islam and Christianity/Judaism is not inherent to Islam. Perhaps Muslims don’t hold all the blame. Neither do Christians and Jews. The blame lays with both sides.

Perhaps the religious tensions are only a consequence of larger social and political problems between Middle East and the West that have existed for centuries. Perhaps the tension and violence is brought about by a politically unstable environment in the middle east, coupled with a mutual lack or understanding (and for that matter a lack of interest in understanding) between Islam and the West.

Perhaps your (I try to be as respectful as possible, but there is no other way to say this.) ignorant views about the complex social and political and religious issues facing both Christians and Muslims is just making things worse, little by little.
 
Mosacked,

Have you read the Koran? How many real life, everyday Muslims do you know? Where have you gotten your information about Islam? In my field of study, the worst possible thing you can do is to pretend to be an expert about something you have no knowledge about.

If I may, let me offer my humble opinion about the tension between Muslims and Christians. I am no expert on Islam or a scholar of religion or politics. This is my humble take on the situation. I welcome any expert on the subject to offer any additions or corrections.

I have a few friends, good people, who are Muslim and from Muslim backgrounds. Believe it or not, they live the same way we do. They work to make money, and support their families and feed their children, all while trying to live a moral life. My experience, and the laws of statistics suggest that this is the case for the majority of Muslims. (If all Muslims were suicide bombers and spent all day thinking about the demise of the West, all practitioners of Islam would be dead.)

Perhaps it’s possible that the tension and violence between Islam and Christianity/Judaism is not inherent to Islam. Perhaps Muslims don’t hold all the blame. Neither do Christians and Jews. The blame lays with both sides.

Perhaps the religious tensions are only a consequence of larger social and political problems between Middle East and the West that have existed for centuries. Perhaps the tension and violence is brought about by a politically unstable environment in the middle east, coupled with a mutual lack or understanding (and for that matter a lack of interest in understanding) between Islam and the West.

Perhaps your (I try to be as respectful as possible, but there is no other way to say this.) ignorant views about the complex social and political and religious issues facing both Christians and Muslims is just making things worse, little by little.
GO1, few is as outrageous as someone who does not bother to find things out and then accusing others of ignorance. I hope you are not attempting to classify yourself as such.

See this if you have the time:

prophetofdoom.net or prophetofdoom.us

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.
 
( I hope this explains…sorry my English is also not good.)
bless you its nice to not be so alone LOL
But, as Catholic as the word suggest, actually had accommodated many different culture of it’s followers.But it seems to be more cultural matter than the real official teaching of Catholics.
Its a beautiful thing of Christians she really does exemplify trying to remove stumbling blocks and not turn from truth.
Even some of the priests of Catholic have gone further of learning some methods that were more in practice in eastern religion, like meditation and others (don’t know much though about this).
As you would have worked out by now i am not big on names for religion but sharing in the lives of others has given me a much bigger love and appreciation of Catholic religion.
But we still have the foundation of the catholic teachings that holds the matter in right way.
Love it you put it so wise using catholic and not Catholic.

Bless ya, i pray peace for you in your health situation
 
Dear seraphime2008
if you meant Catholic and not catholic i mean you no offence in my response. I have done this to another poster in other thread and they slammed me as i was putting words in their mouth. Not what i should rightly intent there or here and given we are English disadvantaged maybe i have read you wrong also.
if so sorry in advance.
Bless you
 
GO1, few is as outrageous as someone who does not bother to find things out and then accusing others of ignorance. I hope you are not attempting to classify yourself as such.

See this if you have the time:

prophetofdoom.net or prophetofdoom.us

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.
Who is Craig Winn?

What is his background and training? Does he specialize in Middle East Politics? Islamic-Christian Relations? History of Religion?

Who publishes his works?

In short, who is he and why should he be trusted over other sources?

These are the same questions, I’d ask about any source of information.
 
GO1, few is as outrageous as someone who does not bother to find things out and then accusing others of ignorance. I hope you are not attempting to classify yourself as such.

See this if you have the time:

.
Mosacked, I do not visit any bad sites. It appears that you are a protestant (who should be complaining/ protesting against the Catholics). But it seems that you are a different type of protestant. Protest is in your nature. So you will protest against any good thing that may come your way.

Islam has survived and it has had a good history of about 1400 years. That is not a small time considering the downfall of other faiths. Whatever you write, it has little meaning amongst understanding people. The bad acts of a few Muslims should not frighten you to death. You should try to find some good Muslims and be with them in their company.

But the problem is that you are using your blunt axe on the root of the Muslim tree. You have no faith otherwise a good reply could be given to you about your faith very easily.

The topic is about law. Do the Muslims have any law? I am sure the Jews and the Muslims have a law. But the christians… ???

The day that the followers of Jesus protested and broke away from the Jews, that was a very bad day in the history of mankind. Bad for the Jews and bad for the name sake followers of Jesus. Those followers neglected the law that Jesus himself followed all his life. They condemned the law given by God to Moses. They called the God given law as a curse. And now they are without any law.
It appears that christianity was born out of protest against Judaism. Jesus never intended to break away. Welcome Mosacked only. You had started this thread.
 
Who is Craig Winn?

What is his background and training? Does he specialize in Middle East Politics? Islamic-Christian Relations? History of Religion?

Who publishes his works?

In short, who is he and why should he be trusted over other sources?

These are the same questions, I’d ask about any source of information.
That’s the same questions the people asked Jesus. Who is he? Isn’t he the son of the carpenter?

Your questions show you lack discernment. Truth is judged on its own merits not by your doubts of it.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.
 
Mosacked, I do not visit any bad sites. It appears that you are a protestant (who should be complaining/ protesting against the Catholics). But it seems that you are a different type of protestant. Protest is in your nature. So you will protest against any good thing that may come your way.

Islam has survived and it has had a good history of about 1400 years. That is not a small time considering the downfall of other faiths. Whatever you write, it has little meaning amongst understanding people. The bad acts of a few Muslims should not frighten you to death. You should try to find some good Muslims and be with them in their company.

But the problem is that you are using your blunt axe on the root of the Muslim tree. You have no faith otherwise a good reply could be given to you about your faith very easily.

The topic is about law. Do the Muslims have any law? I am sure the Jews and the Muslims have a law. But the christians… ???

The day that the followers of Jesus protested and broke away from the Jews, that was a very bad day in the history of mankind. Bad for the Jews and bad for the name sake followers of Jesus. Those followers neglected the law that Jesus himself followed all his life. They condemned the law given by God to Moses. They called the God given law as a curse. And now they are without any law.
It appears that christianity was born out of protest against Judaism. Jesus never intended to break away. Welcome Mosacked only. You had started this thread.
You are a Liar because you are not even a follower of what Jesus said.

Jesus said - “I am the Truth, the Way and the Life. No man goes to the Father except through me.”

1 John 2:22 Who is the Liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Messiah. Such a man is the Antichrist—he denies the Father (God) and the Son (Jesus).

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com.

.
 
You are a Liar because you are not even a follower of what Jesus said.
Please add “what Jesus said and did”. I do not see you doing anything that Jesus did.
Jesus said - “I am the Truth, the Way and the Life. No man goes to the Father except through me.”
I believe that 100%. No man goes to God except through Jesus or Moses or Muhammad. What does it mean “Goes through Jesus?” Does it mean uttering his name. I utter the name of Jesus many times in a day.
1 John 2:22 Who is the Liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Messiah. Such a man is the Antichrist—he denies the Father (God) and the Son (Jesus).
I do not deny that Jesus is the Messiah. I believe Jesus is the Messiah. I do not deny the Father i.e. God and I do not deny the son that is your Jesus.

Please remember all the sacred books,i.e. the scriptures. They are Bhagwat Geeta, vaid, Torah, BibleNT and Quran. You leave your book bibleNT and Quran outside this discussion. Then look at all other sacred books. Which book gives any credit to Jesus??
Is there any other book beside Quran which recognises Jesus?? or his mother Mary??

If you find any book praising Jesus or his disciples, please tell me the name of that book. Any book giving any slight good words about Jesus, please bring it to me. I will respectfully read that book.
.
 
Please add “what Jesus said and did”. I do not see you doing anything that Jesus did.
What Jesus said is very clear “I and the Father are ONE” – John 10:30.
I believe that 100%. No man goes to God except through Jesus or Moses or Muhammad. What does it mean “Goes through Jesus?” Does it mean uttering his name. I utter the name of Jesus many times in a day.
You don’t even know what is means to go through and you say you believe 100%???
I do not deny that Jesus is the Messiah. I believe Jesus is the Messiah. I do not deny the Father i.e. God and I do not deny the son that is your Jesus.
If you do not deny the Son of God – Jesus, then you should change your religion to Christian.
Please remember all the sacred books,i.e. the scriptures. They are Bhagwat Geeta, vaid, Torah, BibleNT and Quran. You leave your book bibleNT and Quran outside this discussion. Then look at all other sacred books. Which book gives any credit to Jesus??
Apologies, but to me, a book started by an old man who had sex with biologically underaged girls, raped, robbed, lied, suicidal cannot be considered sacred. Perhaps to you that is insanity. But it certainly isn’t to most intellectually abled persons.
Is there any other book beside Quran which recognises Jesus?? or his mother Mary??
Firstly, most people (non-muslims) don’t care what the quran recognizes because the quran itself is not recognised
If you find any book praising Jesus or his disciples, please tell me the name of that book. Any book giving any slight good words about Jesus, please bring it to me. I will respectfully read that book.
There are tons out there. You can start with The Daily Bread.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.
 
That’s the same questions the people asked Jesus. Who is he? Isn’t he the son of the carpenter?

Your questions show you lack discernment. Truth is judged on its own merits not by your doubts of it.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.
Your comparing this guy to Jesus?!

The questions I asked that you won’t answer are valid questions. If this line of thought is your only recourse, then you are definitely not interested in an adult conversation.

Your source (Craig Winn) has no background in Islam, or in middle east relations. All of his books are self published. His training is in business. What suggests he can be trusted? General rule I follow in my life: Don’t trust people who make sweeping generalizations about large groups of people, especially when they have no real experience with those people. It shows a complete disregard for the humanity of those people.

(Note that I know now I’m never going to be able to convince you, Mosacked. This is for those people in this thread who are still open to reason.)

I’m actually surprised the forum moderators allowed this thread to go on this long. It’s just degenerated into childish name calling and a refusal to consider any point other than one’s own.

I’m done with this conversation. Good luck to anyone else, who will still attempt to be bring reason into this thread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top