Muslims: How could the Trinity NOT work?!

[paarsurrey]

The problem with belief in the Blessed Trinity is that to a Muslim it looks like nothing but another form of shirk - that is, it denies the Unity & Uniqueness of God by associating partners with Him, who are by definition not God. Therefore, what Christians believe is just another form of polytheism - therefore, it has to be rejected.​

Hi

Moses, Jesus and Muhammad , all three speak of Unity and Oneness of GodAllahYHWH. Only Paul imported Trinity at Rome, so that fault has to be removed.

Thanks

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi

Moses, Jesus and Muhammad , all three speak of Unity and Oneness of GodAllahYHWH. Only Paul imported Trinity at Rome, so that fault has to be removed.

Thanks

Matthew28
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Jesus said this Paars, its in the bible, which means its true.
This is no fault, and will never be removed.

 

[Khalfan]

Matthew28
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Jesus said this Paars, its in the bible, which means its true.
This is no fault, and will never be removed.

Some more explicitly said the same in 1 John 5:7.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

But unfortunatly, it is been thrown out of Bible as fabrication by someone who wanted a clear cut statement for the validity of TRINITY. Wait some more time; probably Matthew 28:19 too may vanish from the Bible tomorrow. So don’t push that verse too much.

 

[Khalfan]

The problem with belief in the Blessed Trinity is that to a Muslim it looks like nothing but another form of shirk - that is, it denies the Unity & Uniqueness of God by associating partners with Him, who are by definition not God. Therefore, what Christians believe is just another form of polytheism - therefore, it has to be rejected.​

If we do not mean by “circle” what “God means”, He might by “good” mean what we mean by “evil” - if a revelation is to be helpful to its recipients, there has to be some likeness between God’s “idea” of good & ours: otherwise His revelation will be misleading. This is why emphasis on the genuinely human authorship of the Bible is so important to understanding it: what God means, is not accessible to human testing - at least in principle, what S.Paul (say) meant by his choice of words can be tested: versions of his writings can be compared, analysed, tested, criticised. Even though his personal knowledge of Christ was his & not ours.

Since we have access to Christ through the Holy Spirit of Christ, we can (as the Psalmist says) “taste and see that the Lord is good” for ourselves, both individually & as a Church. IOW, we can test the truth of St. Paul’s word for ourselves. That so many Christians through the centuries have found them verified in their own experience, is a strong evidence of their truth - & so, of the truth & authenticity & Divine Authorship of them A single individual might be wrong, & often is - but when many individuals taste and see for themselves that what seems incapable of being true, is found true by every test that life can put it through, the case for the truth of whatever-it-is, looks stronger: which is how the fact of a Church is so helpful - it is immensely varied, in just about every way conceivable: the one bond common to all its members is that they are Christians. That they believe in a God Who is Tri-Une, despite their many differences & enormous variety, is something worth noting.

And as his words can by these tests be known to be true, we have a “test” for the Church’s experience that the Blessed Trinity is a reality. Faith is always necessary while we are on earth - perhaps because Christian faith is faith by persons, in Persons. So it is simply not possible to demonstrate that God is Tri-Une by argument: relations between personal beings cannot be tested in that way; that the Blessed Trinity is “really Real”, is not a theorem in geometry; so an argument that would suit geometry is an inappropriate method for knowing the Blessed Trinity.

An answer based on the freedom of God,like “X defies human logic” is an answer vulnerable to attack because it is not clear to an anti-Trinitarian that the Christian belief is itself anything more than a construction of human reason. We believe in the Blessed Trinity because of God’s Revelation on Christ, Who is made known by the Divine gift of faith - but, that reply is not going to answer a Muslim: as belief in the Trinity is not true (the Koran makes that clear enough), nothing can make it true. The absolute trustworthiness & Divine origin of the Koran is basic to Islam; it can no more be taken out of Islam without destroying it, than belief that there is a God can be taken out (say) Christianity without destroying that.

In the Doctrine of God, the Christian certainty, & the Muslim certainty, have somehow to be interpreted as compatible with one another. (That, or one of them must give way: which is not likely to happen.)

You and your belief is your own my dear. No one can/will change it. Just think why do you believe in it. Don’t just hang on with what the church tell you. Use your logic. You can realise the possibility and the impossibility of trinity.

 

[Khalfan]

The proof is the fact that Mohammad had access to the stories that he had incorporated into the koran.

Do you expect me to say, “Oh yaa I agree becasue you said it”? Quran wasn’t talking about some alien stories that was unknown anyone. Many of the stories were around since the facts and false stories were serculating from the very beginning. What Quran did is, giving us the facts from the false, developed, imposed stories. It gives us the reason as well. The interesting part is, all those claims that Quran makes of a messenger Jesus (pbhu), can be seen in the living Bible very clearly. And this is why we don’t have to go after apocrypha to disprove Bible.

 

[Khalfan]

And these people not only knew the disciples, but quoted their teachings in their writings. When you talk about the authors of the gospels, you give the impression that these were lonely people who had no disciples and pupils to pass on their teachings but this is simply not true. The church was spreading in different countries and the disciples’ teachings were handed down to many, were recorded, taught, and explained. Should i believe first and second century people wo were ready to die and indeed died for their faith or should i believe in a man who came 600 years later, who neither knew Jesus, nor His disciples, nor His disciples’ pupils, not had anything to do with the disciples’ tradition but who simply adopted Gnostic teachings and legends about Jesus, without even understanding what Jesus’ titles means, and wants to really convince me that these are the literal, eternal words of an all-knowing God?

And you expect these things are new to me?

Just a quick question. Imagine you are living after 6000 years from now. Will you accept any revelation you recieved from God in someway, regarding the early life (15 - 30 year of age) of Jesus (pbuh)? Will accept that since it is from God? or you will just reject becasue you don’t believe in any history told after 8000 years?

For me, I will accept God. Since I know, God doesn’t forget after 600 or 6000 or 60000 years even.

Tell me, will accept or reject God’s revelation?

 

[Khalfan]

sorry for my late replies

there is difference between “not fully understanding” and “giving wrong info”.

We do not fully understand God (Trinity) because we are not God nor do we have His mind. To say that we fully understand the Trinity means we are on the same level with God which is not true. Hence, repeating it a thousand time that we do not understand it fully is not something we feel bad about but rather it is what biology and logic says.

However, giving “wrong info” about the Trinity and really believing that the all-knowing God got it wrong is the problem. What Muhammad said about the Trinity is simply not true. You can believe God got it wrong, we don’t; it was simply Muhammad’s misunderstanding.

What would you say, if a polytheistic answer you the same that, you don’t understand polytheism becasue no one knows the nature of God? Since nature of God is uncatchable, how can you say polytheism is wrong?

What Mohamed (pbuh) said, what Quran said about Trinity is simply this;

‘Don’t say trinity’

“Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him”

Isn’t it funny, you don’t recognise Son as Father or Holy Spirit, You don’t recognise Holy Spirit as Father or Son, You don’t recognise Father as Son or Holy Spirit; All they have their own different and separate form and personality but still insist they are one in another. I think, you better learn Hinduism. then you will understand, they too are monotheistics but believe in 330000000 Gods and Goddesses. Once you learn them, then you will understand better, the problem in Trinity too.

 

[Khalfan]

nop. Fact is, you are getting it I already explained that being an attribute of the Father, His Wisdom is ontologically equal to the Father hence Father and Wisdom are One. Yet, the Wisdom of the Father comes from the Father, is subordinate to the Father and is not the Father just like your wisdom is you because it is an attribute of yourself yet it is not you unless you believe that you are not a body as well. So your wisdom is you as an attribute but not you in function. So yes Jesus and God are One but does not mean Jesus is the Father. Clearer now?

How did you say that my wisdom alone is me? In Biblical point of view? Have you forgotten that I don’t believe in it?
My body and my wisdom complete me. Then only I exist. Otherwise I am wisdomless body or bodyless wisdom. Imagine, your Wisdom is in a form of a man in some place, you are in some other place, yet you both have the same wisdom. For some reason you are THINKING (by using the same wisdom to think that both of you have) to kill the wisdom-man with an AK 47 Gun, do you expect the wisdom-man to THINK (by using your own wisdom) and asking you to RETHINK (using the same wisdom of both of you) and to come up with another solution for the problem that you wanted him to be killed?

It is possible, if that wisdom-man have its own individual wisdom to think. Then you too are supposed to have your own individual wisdom to think along with the common wisdom that links both of you. Until you too have your own individual separate wisdom to think, you are your own and wisdom-man is his own. You are not supposed to be guilty for the mistake of individual thought and deed of the wisdom-man and wisdom-man cannot be rewarded for the individual thought and deed you did. We don’t do that with any identical twins since one is not responsible for the deeds of the another, which makes them separate individual personalities.
If we apply the same in the case of Trinity, Jesus (pbuh) wasn’t supposed ask God for another solution than cross if he was the same wisdom that God used to think of the atonement for the original sin. But Jesus (pbuh) asked God for another solution than cross, which proves he had his own individual separate human mind to think (you also agreed that). Now God had his own wisdom to think and Jesus (pbuh) too had his own individual separate human mind/wisdom to think, how can you say Jesus and Father is one God, one almighty, one in person??!!

If you still say they are one person, then it is nothing but a whole lot of nonsense.

Cont…

 

[Khalfan]

it is NOT a seperation. It is a “distinction” in function (one comes from the other) .The Wisdom of the Father comes from the Father hence it is subordinate in function but equal in nature because, exactly, it is eternal and uncreated.The Islamic claim simply is wrong.

the Wisdom of the Father comes from the Father hence the “head” or the “source” is the Father.

My dear friend, that is what I said, that the one that came, is not the same as that what it came from. If there is no source, there won’t be any outcome. The outcome is dependent of the source but the source is not dependent of the outcome which makes them separate, deferent and distinct from one another. Isn’t that clear? I hope so.

simply because Wisdom comes from the Father. Am not talking about power here. Am saying Wisdom comes from the Father and it is not the Father in function but in nature.

Wisdom too or wisdom is the power of God my dear. When you say Father is the head/boss of the wisdom and Holy Spirit, it indirectly means the same that the Wisdom and Spirit is subordinates to head/boss Father. When you say DOOR IS HALF CLOSED, it also means door is half open. The problem is you are trying to co-equal all three and one to be head of the other two at the same time. Can I say ‘My right Hand is the head of my Body’? No. Can I say ‘My brain is the head of my body’? You may say ‘YES’. But I will still say NO, since my head or brain cannot do that what I do with my hands and my hands cannot do that what my brain can do. Each individual part of my body has its own function. None of my part can be recognized as Khalfan, since any of the part alone doesn’t represent me. Khalfan becomes a reality, only when all the parts are doing its own responsibility together.

You have to decide, whether the parts of God (the wisdom part and the spirit part) had its own individual personality with its own mind/wisdom to think or they were puppets of the head/Father.

because you always forget that we do believe 1) Jesus was born as a human, as a Jew,not pagan. 2) When the Wisdom of God speaks about God in the OT, it does not mean it is someone else. The same Wisdom personified in the OT is the Wisdom personified in the NT.

they are NOT seperate. They are distinct in function because God’s Spirit and Wisdom come from the Father hence distinct in function but equal in being uncreated and eternal. We make a distinction, not a seperation since God is One.

it is because He knew that He refered to the Father’s will. The Bible is clear : Jesus felt sadness and anxiety because He was a true human, not pretending to be one. Knowing the plan of God does NOT mean that Jesus had no feelings. He knew He will be resurrected again, and talked about it before being put on the cross, but this does not mean He had no feelings about what is to come just like when He cried when Eliazar was dead knowing that He will resurrect him in a minute.

Here I got what you think of the wisdom part. It had its own human mind/wisdom and feeling, which is logically saying, they had their own individual separate will/thoughts. In supporting to that Jesus (pbuh) also said, ‘not as I will, but yours be done’. There is only one question more to be answered, so that I can conclude the subject, which is below.

 

[Khalfan]

yes but what proof do you need if you believe God does not preseve His words?if everything is a conspiracy theory by corrupt Christians who corrupted the Bible, where do you want me to give you proof from? my own experience does not interest you am sure.

It is very simple. Here is the above mentioned question.

Have the wisdom of Man in Jesus (pbuh) had the access to the wisdom of God in Jesus? Just like the ability to find answer in the Wisdom of God for the questions that pops up in the wisdom of man. Have he had that ability?

If the answer is YES,

Why Jesus (pbuh) was making unnecessary prayers in private while he could find answer in his own wisdom of God? Why he was making ignorant statements in public?

If the answer is NO,

You are failing to prove Jesus (pbuh) was the wisdom of God and the divinity in Jesus (pbuh) becomes nothing but a lie.

every soul sins hence we are all dead. Jesus reversed this. We are all alive through His death for us. It is simply what Jesus said : there is nothing better than giving your life for others. It is exactly like when a mother or father or brother decides to pay for a wrong done by one member of the family; it is simply love. That’s why we stress on God’s love , because we witnessed it, here on earth.

If God (Jesus) himself was supposed teach against the law that he only taught in Ezekiel, God is contradicting himself. Another problem is, where did Jesus (pbuh) say he was come to die for the sins of the mankind? If he was indeed came to give his life for the sins of the mankind, why would he pray to be saved from it (which is again, God contradicting himself)?

cool, who was it? give me one logical answer that does not insult neither my intelligence nor God’s character.

Do you believe Jesus (pbhu) prayed to be saved from the cross? Now, I don’t think that prayer will insult your intelligence or God’s character.

it’s like saying why He had to eat since He is God and needs not to eat? why did He cry knowing that He will raise Eliazar from death? why did He cry knowing that He will raise Himself ?that’s the beauty of it : He was a true human being : cried, laughed, felt sad, felt happy ecc. We do NOT believe that humanity per se is something shameful. We do NOT believe that God is “scandalized” by anything related to humans. You believe Allah is so remote from anything human, we simply don’t because He is our Father.

Of course you do believe God cried, laughed, ate, felt sad, wept, felt happy, tempted of evil, repented, rested from work, was helpless in front of iron chariots, broke promises, confused people, begotten children, contradicted himself, killed his own son (killed himself in fact) for the sake of entire criminals, was jealous, deceive so on and on… as much as, God is in the image of Man. If you say, this is nature of God, I am sorry to say but, you are far far away from your God my dear.

Jesus was quoting a Psalm about suffering and how he will end up victorious. You can consider it a foreshadowing of how His suffering will end up in His Victory, the resurrection. Not praying in as much as telling that He is victorious. The choice of the Psalm is not meaningless.

You are saying he was quoting psalms, because there are some similar words in Psalms, right? Neither Jesus (pbuh) nor the gospel reporter said that he was quoting Psalms. It also to be noted that, John never saw as ‘Jesus’ quoting Psalms on the cross. What John saw is ‘Jesus’ saying calmly ‘it’s finished’, bowed his head and giving up the spirit which none of the other gospel reporters saw.

Was ‘Jesus’ forsaken by God as he said?

 

[Khalfan]

we dont seperate as well. We make a DISTINCTION, just like in :

A quality present means a quality in God, not God, yet not different from Him IN NATURE.

We never say, Quran have its own wisdom/mind to think. What is revealed in Quran is part of Allah’s wisdom, a quality with God. But when you say, that quality of God (word in flesh) had its own wisdom/mind to think, you are talking about a different personality. They are not one in nature either, since one is the source and the other is the outcome.

IF you want to refer to the Word of Allah, you refer to a book, don’t you? didn’t the eternal word of Allah materialize in a book? didnt the eternal enter the realm of time and space in a material form?

Do we really do that? NO. When we say Quran is the word of God, we don’t mean word of God is only Quran. It just like saying, fire is light but light is not only fire. Honey is sweet but sweet is not only honey. Quran is the Word/wisdom of God but wisdom of God is not only Quran. But you say wisdom of God alone came on earth.

How can you make such a question, when you read ‘nothing in heaven or earth can contain God’ in the Bible and still believe a man contained God? My dear, you cannot make your own cake and also eat it.

what i quoted is more than clear to anyone who is interested in the sunni position.

Quran is the Word/wisdom of God but wisdom of God is not only Quran. Hope that is better than clearest.

Jesus can do whatever the Father can do. Is that not omnipotence? Jesus can give power to His followers, wherever they are, to do miracles. Is that not omnipotence when only God can empower people everywhere at the same time? Jesus gives wisdom to all at the same time, Isn’t this omnipotence? Jesus gives peace the world cannot give, isn’t this omnipotence? Jesus knows what people in a different city are talking about, or what they are thinking within themselves, isn’t this omnipotencw?Jesus can raise Himself, isn’t this omnipotence? Jesus can be with different people at the same time, isnt this omnipotence? or are all corrupt as usual? i hope you are not refering to the fig tree again cuz a kid of 10 years in Palestine or Lebanon knows the season of figs…lets not be joking and i already explained what it means in context and with OT references.

And Jesus (pbuh) said, he cannot do anything his own, unless he is empowered by Father. Do you think you can think or talk to me, without God empowering you to do so? If that doesn’t make you omnipotent, nothing can make Jesus (pbuh) omnipotent, because omnipotence is quality of God, the power that exist in him. To be clearer, omnipotence of God is the source power and the ability of Jesus (pbuh) was the outcome power. Even if the effect is the same, source is different. If you say God can see and we too can see, that doesn’t give you the right to draw an eye of God.

Where did you explain the question of fig tree?

Cont…

 

[Khalfan]

whole or half is irrelevant.

It is relevant my dear. It is the only relevant point. As far as you say, the wisdom of God in flesh is complete and had its own individual wisdom/mind to think. Both are not applicable to Quran. So stop equalizing Quran and word of God in flesh.

thats what sunni believe in too

“And know that the phrase ‘Kalām Allah’ (Allah’s Word) is applied to the beginningless unuttered speech (kalām nafsī qadīm), which happens to be a quality (sifah) present with His being (dhat) – High is He.

And know that in the beginning was the Word (beginingless unuttered speach) , and the Word was with God (which happens to be present with His being) and the Word is God ( his dhat- quality).

= pure monotheism

As soon as you claim, that word, the complete wisdom of God came in flesh with its own separate individual mind to think, that becomes a being with Godly power but not God. It can think its own and God too can think its own. I think the Holy Spirit too has its own wisdom and it too can think its own. That makes them three beings with their own thoughts and will. Two of them are the assistants in certain functions of the head. Do God need those assistance to fulfill his functions?

If you say YES, you are clearly imposing partners to God.

= Pure polytheism.

If you say NO,

= Pure Monotheism is still an oasis in the desert of Arabia. I hope you will get there one day.

 

[Vincent]

Isn’t it funny, you don’t recognise Son as Father or Holy Spirit, You don’t recognise Holy Spirit as Father or Son, You don’t recognise Father as Son or Holy Spirit; All they have their own different and separate form and personality but still insist they are one in another.

What Christians believe about the Trinity stems from what Christians believe about Jesus.

Therefore, the Christian belief that Jesus had a unique filial relationship to God precedes any discussion of the Trinity.

Needless to say, since you deny, at the outset, that Jesus can be called God’s “son” in any sense of the term, any attempt on your part to be sympathetically critical to what Christians believe about the Trinity would be fruitless.

However. . .

If, you grant what Christians believe about Jesus – that He is God’s *unique *Son, and *unique *in the sense of being identified, in some way, **with **God, then this discussion will bear fruit.

No, it doesn’t mean you will have to accept what Christians believe about Jesus; it means that you only need to grant it for the purposes of discussion. (I.e., "Assuming what Christians believe about Jesus, then . . . ")

If you’re willing to do that, I propose this avenue:

Relation. That’s the key.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are **not **separate entities.

Rather, they are relations.

And relations necessarily regard one to an other: the Father relates to the Son, the Son relates to the Father, and the Holy Spirit relates to both the Father and the Son.

Again, relations: not three separate entities the way three rocks have independent existences.

It is **solely **because of their mutual relationships that each is **distinct. **Without these mutual relationships, each would be indistinguishable.

**Each **relation – Father, Son and Holy Spirit – is identified with the supreme reality – the one and only one God.

The one and only one God therefore is relation.**

Since Father, Son and Holy Spirit denotes relation – not a separate/independent entity – and each relation is identified with the one and only one God, the oneness of God is not compromised.

Yet we still have the difficulty of there being “three”. This “problem” yields, in my opinion, the richest insight on the Trinity: each is **in **the other:“The Father is entirely *in *the Son, the Son is entirely *in *the Father, and the Holy Spirit is entirely *in *the Father and entirely *in *the Son.”
This is called “mutual indwelling”. Each is so *transparent *to the other that the three are one *in *one another.

It’s oneness without compromise. Not the oneness that pertains to a mere “object”, but the oneness of communion.

To use New Testament language, “God is love” (Cf. 1 John 4:16).

 

[Khalfan]

What Christians believe about the Trinity stems from what Christians believe about Jesus.

Therefore, the Christian belief that Jesus had a unique filial relationship to God precedes any discussion of the Trinity.

Needless to say, since you deny, at the outset, that Jesus can be called God’s “son” in any sense of the term, any attempt on your part to be sympathetically critical to what Christians believe about the Trinity would be fruitless.

However. . .

If, you grant what Christians believe about Jesus – that He is God’s *unique *Son, and *unique *in the sense of being identified, in some way, **with **God, then this discussion will bear fruit.

No, it doesn’t mean you will have to accept what Christians believe about Jesus; it means that you only need to grant it for the purposes of discussion. (I.e., "Assuming what Christians believe about Jesus, then . . . ")

If you’re willing to do that, I propose this avenue:

Relation. That’s the key.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are **not **separate entities.

Rather, they are relations.

And relations necessarily regard one to an other: the Father relates to the Son, the Son relates to the Father, and the Holy Spirit relates to both the Father and the Son.

Again, relations: not three separate entities the way three rocks have independent existences.

It is **solely **because of their mutual relationships that each is **distinct. **Without these mutual relationships, each would be indistinguishable.

**Each **relation – Father, Son and Holy Spirit – is identified with the supreme reality – the one and only one God.

**The one and only one God therefore is relation.

Since Father, Son and Holy Spirit denotes relation – not a separate/independent entity – and each relation is identified with the one and only one God, the oneness of God is not compromised.

Yet we still have the difficulty of there being “three”. This “problem” yields, in my opinion, the richest insight on the Trinity: each is **in **the other:“The Father is entirely *in *the Son, the Son is entirely *in *the Father, and the Holy Spirit is entirely *in *the Father and entirely *in *the Son.”
This is called “mutual indwelling”. Each is so *transparent *to the other that the three are one *in *one another.

It’s oneness without compromise. Not the oneness that pertains to a mere “object”, but the oneness of communion.

To use New Testament language, “God is love” (Cf. 1 John 4:16).

Do you know what do Hindus bilieve?

 

[Ne_OrangeKnight]

Hinduism is entirely irrelevent to the discussion. Just because 2 things have similarities does not mean that they are alike at all.

I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make, exactly, but it seems to me your argument is akin to saying that a butterfly is a bird simply because it has wings.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

 

[Khalfan]

Hinduism is entirely irrelevent to the discussion. Just because 2 things have similarities does not mean that they are alike at all.

I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make, exactly, but it seems to me your argument is akin to saying that a butterfly is a bird simply because it has wings.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

I am an Indian and those explanations of relationship, divine entities doing the finctions of God for the Godhead/Father is so much similar to the reasons they give to believe in polythiesm and claim monotheism. The only difference is, when it is only three functions in Christianity, it is 330,000,000 (or may be more) functions for Hindus.

I don’t say Christianity is derived from Hinduism or something like that. I am just saying, the reasons you give for God being in 3 and Hindus give for God being in 330,000,000 is very much similar, just to fulfill the functions of God. As you believe in 3 functions of God, they believe in 33 million functions of God. Isn’t that similar reasoning?

By the way, read the whole post, so you would understand that this similarity wasn’t the important point I quoted regarding the divinity of Jesus (pbuh).

 

[Ne_OrangeKnight]

I did read the post, and I was unclear on part of what you had said, so I asked you for clarification. Thank you for clarifying.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

 

[Vincent]

I am an Indian and those explanations of relationship, divine entities doing the finctions of God for the Godhead/Father is so much similar to the reasons they give to believe in polythiesm and claim monotheism.

As I tried to make clear, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are **not **entities.

Entities are independent and separate. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are neither independent, nor separate. Hence, they are not entities.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are “subsistent” relations. Subsistent, meaning that *each *is none other than the one and only one supreme reality (God); relations, meaning that their distinctiveness is found *only *in the relationships that relate them to one another.

 

[Khalfan]

As I tried to make clear, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are **not **entities.

Entities are independent and separate. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are neither independent, nor separate. Hence, they are not entities.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are “subsistent” relations. Subsistent, meaning that *each *is none other than the one and only one supreme reality (God); relations, meaning that their distinctiveness is found *only *in the relationships that relate them to one another.

In fact, that is the discussion going on between me and InJesus, wheather they are one or separate. Do the Son and Holy Spirit have their own mind to think, or are they just puppets of the Father God?

I hope you do agree that Father, Son and Spirit 3 functions or distinct level of the same one God. If it is so, you are not so different from Hindus as they believe in 33 million functions of God.

 

[dolphinlove]

Some more explicitly said the same in 1 John 5:7.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

But unfortunatly, it is been thrown out of Bible as fabrication by someone who wanted a clear cut statement for the validity of TRINITY. Wait some more time; probably Matthew 28:19 too may vanish from the Bible tomorrow. So don’t push that verse too much.

Thrown out of the bible as fabrication?? who says this?