Muslims, jihads, and who's in charge here?

[whomper]

As I understand it, the Hadith contains a famous pronouncement made by the Prophet Muhammad on his return from the battle of Badr, which marked the end of his military campaign against the polytheists: “We are finished with the lesser jihad (jihad kabeer); now we are starting the greater jihad (jihad akbar).” Supposedly, this division of jihad came to be interpreted as a transition from physical force to moral struggle.

But Ibn Taymiyya (b. ~1263) declared Muhammad’s understanding to be in error, and thus we have the terrorist divisions of and in Islam.

My question is this: How can a man who lived so long after Muhammad make such declarations without being beheaded and buried with the pigs? Isn’t any such contradiction of Muhammad considered sinful?

And I seem to recall that Ibn T said that later, Muhammad recanted his explanation - thus justifying the continued violence (jihad) against the non-believers.

Where is the answer to this? Did Muhammad actually further define jihad to move it from violence to moral teachings and conversions through argument?

And why, today, do any Muslims condone teachings which contradict the Prophet?

 

[Nicolas]

It’s like a coin ,has 2 sides…but some see and deal only with one side without considering the other…

 

[Sam_777]

My question is this: How can a man who lived so long after Muhammad make such declarations without being beheaded and buried with the pigs? Isn’t any such contradiction of Muhammad considered sinful?

He did not contradict Muhammed, he simply pointed out Muhammed’s error, Muhammed did many mistakes throughout his claimed prophecy life, and he corrected them by issuing Quranic or hadith verses to cover himself, a good example of that is Quran (80:1), where Islamic Allah admonition Muhammed for a wrong doing to a blind man.

Where is the answer to this? Did Muhammad actually further define jihad to move it from violence to moral teachings and conversions through argument?

There are many types of Jihad in Islam, some violence and some peaceful, it depends on the Muslim condition, he/she should start by the violence one and end by the peaceful one, per this Hadith:

**Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0079: **
“I heard the Messenger of Allah as saying: He who amongst you sees something abominable should modify it with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do it, then he should do it with his tongue, and if he has not strength enough to do it, (even) then he should (abhor it) from his heart, and that is the least of faith.”

سمعت رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏يقول ‏ ‏من رأى منكم منكرا فليغيره بيده فإن لم يستطع فبلسانه فإن لم يستطع فبقلبه وذلك أضعف الإيمان ‏
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(E)
(A)

And why, today, do any Muslims condone teachings which contradict the Prophet?

Can’t you see the fight which is going on between the Sunee & Sheaa in Iraq…

 

[whomper]

He did not contradict Muhammed, he simply pointed out Muhammed’s error, Muhammed did many mistakes throughout his claimed prophecy life, and he corrected them by issuing Quranic or hadith verses to cover himself

I’m confused. If Muhammad was gifted with the blessing of insight through visitation, how could he make mistakes which were included in the Quran? And who is similarly gifted that they can identify Muhammad’s mistakes? If Muhammad was so gifted, and thus so revered to the point that people can be condemned to death for disputing him or insulting him, how can a subsequent mullah contradict, or even point out discrepancies of, Muhammad, and survive? --Much less go on to father a train of thought with such destructive consequences?

Sam:

Can’t you see the fight which is going on between the Sunee & Sheaa in Iraq

Oh yes I see the fight. The entire non-Muslim world is forced to see that fight! But the problem is that the focus of the fight is due to Man arguing over who is to succeed Muhammad! It is not a fight over which form of basic belief is wrong or right, it’s over who will be in charge! Or so it seems…

Cain vs Abel…
War vs Love…

 

[Sam_777]

I’m confused. If Muhammad was gifted with the blessing of insight through visitation, how could he make mistakes which were included in the Quran?

The point is visitation from whom? a true Angel or Satan!!!

And who is similarly gifted that they can identify Muhammad’s mistakes?

You don’t have to be gifted to identify Muhammed’ mistakes.

how can a subsequent mullah contradict, or even point out discrepancies of, Muhammad, and survive?

As I said, he didn’t contradict him, he just pointed out previous errors which were corrected later on.

But the problem is that the focus of the fight is due to Man arguing over who is to succeed Muhammad! It is not a fight over which form of basic belief is wrong or right, it’s over who will be in charge! Or so it seems…

Yes that was in the past, right after Muhammed’s death, but nowadays its all about who’s belief is right & wrong.

 

[whomper]

The point is visitation from whom? a true Angel or Satan!

Since we’re speaking of the visitations to Muhammad which produced the Quran and the jihads, etc., we must ask Muhammad whether he was visited by a true Angel or by Satan! And I suggest that no true Muslim will ever admit that Muhammad made any mistakes, since he (said he) was a prophet of God! So, who’s making the mistakes since Muhammad isn’t around to say?

You don’t have to be gifted to identify Muhammed’ mistakes.

No, one doesn’t have to be gifted to identify the Prophet’s mistakes; one has only to be blessed with fantastic luck to caste any doubt on the Prophet’s attributes and to keep from dying! The point is that if Muhammad was indeed a prophet of God and received special visitations and insight, he wouldn’t be making mistakes! God makes no mistakes! Man makes the mistakes in trying to interpret what God is telling us (and in taking actions on those interpretations), and again in re-interpreting!

As I said, he didn’t contradict him, he just pointed out previous errors which were corrected later on.

Errors? Who decided that Muhammad made errors? Surely not Muhammad, since he had been visited by God’s angels. If errors were identified and corrected AFTER Muhammad’s death, as in the Hadith, who made the identifications and corrections? ***= Other mortals! *** Were they so gifted that they could do it without recriminations? Not gifted, but lucky! Remember, with the Hadith, Muhammad had aleady died, and he never came back from the dead to correct himself. His own followers corrected him after he had died! Why correct a prophet of God if he was right to begin with?! And if he wasn’t right to begin with on any number of subjects, what evidence is there that he was right to begin with on ANY of his pronouncements? Pick and choose.

Yes that was in the past, right after Muhammed’s death, but nowadays its all about who’s belief is right & wrong.

Which Belief is being tested here? The “Sunee & Sheaa” beliefs are based on human assumptions of who can succeed Muhammad. That’s not a religious belief but a mortal belief. And millions of deaths have occured as a result of that fight. [Not that other religions haven’t had such fights and deaths in the name of religion; but that’s the main problem, isn’t it?]

God = Love, not War
God = tolerance and education, not force of death