Muslims please... Gabriel

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spn82756

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Okay…I really am not looking for repeated verses from the Koran or debating. My question is…

"The Angel Gabriel told Mary that she would have the Son of God. Not just a man…but the Incarnation of God. The GREAT I AM! The Word made Flesh. God…not a metaphor…but True God.

So…what do you say about the Angel Gabriel that Mohammad claims spoke to him on God’s behalf and denied Jesus is God? Again…no debating. No empty words…PLEASE just answer the question.
 
How about considering the resurrection? If that isn’t enough proof that The Lord Jesus is God in the flesh, how about the miracles while he walked this earth? What about His fulfillment of all the prophetic scripture concerning Him?
 
It should be interesting to hear what Muslims say…of course, if none post, then they probably don’t have a good answer…🤷
 
spn82756 said:
Okay…I really am not looking for repeated verses from the Koran or debating. My question is…

"The Angel Gabriel told Mary that she would have the Son of God. Not just a man…but the Incarnation of God. The GREAT I AM! The Word made Flesh. God…not a metaphor…but True God.

So…what do you say about the Angel Gabriel that Mohammad claims spoke to him on God’s behalf and denied Jesus is God? Again…no debating. No empty words…PLEASE just answer the question.
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Angel Jibreel(i.e.Gabriel) is the Angel of Revelation -peace be upon him.

The Qur’aan says [from what can be translated]:

19:19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

There is no mention of Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) being described as the ‘Son of God’ nor the ‘Incarnate God’.

In fact, Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) says about himself when he was born and spoke to the people who was slandering his mother;

“Qala innee 'Abdul lah,”

19:30 He said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah,”

In Islam it is kufr/blasphemy to say anything created is comparable to Allaah, or to say that Allaah became creation or to say that Allaah had a child.

19:93 Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to ((Allah)) Most Gracious as a servant.
 
SonofAdam said:
Angel Jibreel(i.e.Gabriel) is the Angel of Revelation -peace be upon him.

The Qur’aan says [from what can be translated]:

19:19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

There is no mention of Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) being described as the ‘Son of God’ nor the ‘Incarnate God’.

In fact, Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) says about himself when he was born and spoke to the people who was slandering his mother;

“Qala innee 'Abdul lah,”

19:30 He said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah,”

In Islam it is kufr/blasphemy to say anything created is comparable to Allaah, or to say that Allaah became creation or to say that Allaah had a child.

19:93 Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to ((Allah)) Most Gracious as a servant.
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There’s the first answer. A NON-Answer! I guess he/she didn’t understand the question.
 
I guess I can only suggest that we ignore posts that do not answer the question. I know that’s what I will do. Muslims posting a similar response to that of SonofAdam are not answering the question. I’m not sure how much more clearly I pose the question. 🤷
 
spn82756 said:
There’s the first answer. A NON-Answer! I guess he/she didn’t understand the question.
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He absolutely did answer the question. For Islam, Christ was not the Son of God, but a prophet, the servant of Allah. They do not have any verses which say that, and for them to say that God could become man is “kafr”…
The Qur’aan says [from what can be translated]:
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19:19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
Click to expand...
There is no mention of Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) being described as the ‘Son of God’ nor the ‘Incarnate God’.
Click to expand...
In fact, Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) says about himself when he was born and spoke to the people who was slandering his mother;
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“Qala innee 'Abdul lah,”
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19:30 He said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah,”
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In Islam it is kufr/blasphemy to say anything created is comparable to Allaah, or to say that Allaah became creation or to say that Allaah had a child.
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19:93 Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to ((Allah)) Most Gracious as a servant.
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And we shouldnt tell them (Muslims) not to quote from the Qu’ran when we all but quote the Bible. Kind of unfair IMHO…

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spn82756 said:
I guess I can only suggest that we ignore posts that do not answer the question. I know that’s what I will do. Muslims posting a similar response to that of SonofAdam are not answering the question. I’m not sure how much more clearly I pose the question. 🤷
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You cannot expect another religion to accept what the Bible says as being authoritative any more than you would want to be held to that standard. Would you want someone asking you how you can hold an opinion other than what the Vedas say?

You would respond with what the Bible says, in charity and respect. That is what SonofAdam seems to have done.

This question is kind of like asking an american why he doesnt follow the queen, without allowing him to reference the declaration of independence, the tea party, or any of the pilgrims… Not quite fair

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FidesSpesCarita said:
You cannot expect another religion to accept what the Bible says as being authoritative any more than you would want to be held to that standard. Would you want someone asking you how you can hold an opinion other than what the Vedas say?

You would respond with what the Bible says, in charity and respect. That is what SonofAdam seems to have done.

This question is kind of like asking an american why he doesnt follow the queen, without allowing him to reference the declaration of independence, the tea party, or any of the pilgrims… Not quite fair

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Who was the angel gabriel? It could not have been the same Gabriel! Don’t you get it?
 
spn82756 said:
Who was the angel gabriel? It could not have been the same Gabriel! Don’t you get it?
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That is not the point. You are taking the Bible as being the authoritative text, while SOA is taking the Qu’ran. Both refer to the same Gabriel, with two different points of view. To demand that he takes your (and my) opinion of authority is somewhat misguided.

I understand your point, and I agree. But we cannot try to remove their authoritative text and argue from ours. (Since I am the king of bad analogies, here is another) Its like telling a man to come to a gunfight but he cant bring his gun…

Man, I need to work on my analogies…

FSC
 
FidesSpesCarita said:
That is not the point. You are taking the Bible as being the authoritative text, while SOA is taking the Qu’ran. Both refer to the same Gabriel, with two different points of view. To demand that he takes your (and my) opinion of authority is somewhat misguided.

I understand your point, and I agree. But we cannot try to remove their authoritative text and argue from ours. (Since I am the king of bad analogies, here is another) Its like telling a man to come to a gunfight but he cant bring his gun…

Man, I need to work on my analogies…

FSC
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No worries…I know what you’re trying to say.🙂

Perhaps it’s a thread that will get absolutely nowhere. Like many do.
 
FidesSpesCarita said:
That is not the point. You are taking the Bible as being the authoritative text, while SOA is taking the Qu’ran. Both refer to the same Gabriel, with two different points of view. To demand that he takes your (and my) opinion of authority is somewhat misguided.

I understand your point, and I agree. But we cannot try to remove their authoritative text and argue from ours. (Since I am the king of bad analogies, here is another) Its like telling a man to come to a gunfight but he cant bring his gun…

Man, I need to work on my analogies…

FSC
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The same agrument can apply to muslims who come here on CAF and post threads like…

“Christians worship 3 gods”

“Since god died, who watched over the earth for 3 days”

“Jesus didn’t die on the cross, he went to India, lived to be 120 years old and died there along with Mother Mary and is buried there”

“Why do Christians say Jesus is god, Jesus never said he is god”…

etc…etc… etc…

And in all cases they quote their koran and hadiths.

Perhaps some muslim member will answer SPN’s inquiry.

He is looking for an answer outside of the koran, just like muslims sometimes want answers from us outside the Bible.
 
Muslims do not accept the validity of the New Testament; C. S. Lewis’ trilemma does not work with us.
 
Kadaveri said:
Muslims do not accept the validity of the New Testament; C. S. Lewis’ trilemma does not work with us.
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Yet I understand you accept the propetual virginity of, and sinlessness of Mary? Is that so?
 
jakasaki said:
The same agrument can apply to muslims who come here on CAF and post threads like…

“Christians worship 3 gods”

“Since god died, who watched over the earth for 3 days”

“Jesus didn’t die on the cross, he went to India, lived to be 120 years old and died there along with Mother Mary and is buried there”

“Why do Christians say Jesus is god, Jesus never said he is god”…

etc…etc… etc…

And in all cases they quote their koran and hadiths.

Perhaps some muslim member will answer SPN’s inquiry.

He is looking for an answer outside of the koran, just like muslims sometimes want answers from us outside the Bible.
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This tends to be more of a HUMAN problem than one which plagues certain denominations. We all want to be the baddest dude on the block, so-to-speak, and in theological debates the best way (whether we do this consciously or not) is to remove their spiritual weapon (Holy Book). it is a bad habit that only leaves people with a bad taste in their mouths regarding you, your argument, and in some cases your whole belief system.

If I had a dollar for every time I have tried this I would have a lot more money right now. But I am trying to stop doing it because it doesnt help anyones cause, as I am sure you can see when “they” do it to “us”.

Let me point out that I absolutely agree with spn on this topic, just not so much with his manner of addressing the point. Not that I can think of a better method, but you cannot dislike something some else does unless you first dislike it in yourself.

Also, Kadaveri has very succinctly shown why these arguments never get anywhere. Kindof like arguing Christianity with some Jewish Sects. When they refuse to accept the truth/validity of Christ and the New Testament the only evangelical tool left to us is our actions. “They’ll know we are Christians by Our Love”.

FSC
 
On these message boards, I cannot recall any instance where I have asked Christians to stop quoting from the Bible to support their arguments… primarily because I know that I can counter any Biblical quote that they may provide with a Biblical quote of my own i.e. an opposing quote from the Bible itself, NOT from the Qur’an.

Like I have mentioned before in previous threads, Muslims would have greater faith in the ‘face value’ truth of the Bible than most Christians.
 
hamba2han said:
On these message boards, I cannot recall any instance where I have asked Christians to stop quoting from the Bible to support their arguments… primarily because I know that I can counter any Biblical quote that they may provide with a Biblical quote of my own i.e. an opposing quote from the Bible itself, NOT from the Qur’an.

Like I have mentioned before in previous threads, Muslims would have greater faith in the ‘face value’ truth of the Bible than most Christians.
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You didn’t answer the question!
 
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