Muslims please... Gabriel

[schaick]

Maybe the question should be:

What is the nature of the Islamic Gabriel?

Is he kind and reassuring as in the visit with Mary or violent and forceful, squeezing as in the visit with Mohammad?

Did Gabriel go to any others to verify, add witness to Mohammad’s claim?

In Christianity Gabriel appeared to Joseph in a dream so Mary had a witness- not just her word on the matter.

 

[spn82756]

Maybe the question should be:

What is the nature of the Islamic Gabriel?

Is he kind and reassuring as in the visit with Mary or violent and forceful, squeezing as in the visit with Mohammad?

Did Gabriel go to any others to verify, add witness to Mohammad’s claim?

In Christianity Gabriel appeared to Joseph in a dream so Mary had a witness- not just her word on the matter.

That’s a good point…but since they will dance around your questions also…it won’t make a difference. For me…mohammad’s gabriel was of God.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

That’s a good point…but since they will dance around your questions also…it won’t make a difference. For me…mohammad’s gabriel was of God.

What do you mean “was of god”?

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[spn82756]

What do you mean “was of god”?

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oooooooooooooooooops…was NOT of God.

That was a serious typo!

 

[Kadaveri]

Yet I understand you accept the propetual virginity of, and sinlessness of Mary? Is that so?

There is no stated position on the *perpetual *virginity of Mary in Islamic texts.
We believe that she was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus Christ, and was sinless like her son.

You didn’t answer the question!

As I understood it the question was; how can you explain revelations given to Muhammad via Gabriel saying that Jesus is not God, when the New Testament says Jesus was divine? I answered this question by informing you that Muslims do not accept the validity of the New Testament. Let me know exactly why my answer was unsatisfactory and I may be able to help you.

 

[spn82756]

There is no stated position on the *perpetual *virginity of Mary in Islamic texts, we believe that she was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus Christ, and was sinless like her son.

One of the things I SPECIFICALLY asked was for muslims not to go off on a tangent. That’s exactly what you have done.

That’s what happens when a false religion has no leg to stand on.

Answer the question.

 

[hamba2han]

oooooooooooooooooops…was NOT of God.

That was a serious typo!

You may call it a typo but I would call it a Freudian slip.

 

[Kadaveri]

One of the things I SPECIFICALLY asked was for muslims not to go off on a tangent. That’s exactly what you have done.

That’s what happens when a false religion has no leg to stand on.

Answer the question.

I did not go off on a tangent; a Catholic asked me a question regarding Islam’s position on Mary and I provided an answer. Pay attention.

I answered your question already. I won’t repeat myself.

 

[spn82756]

You may call it a typo but I would call it a Freudian slip.

just as long as it doesn’t mean a “suppressed thought”. Then I would agree. Basically though it was a mistype that does not reflect my beliefs.

 

[Kadaveri]

One of the things I SPECIFICALLY asked was for muslims not to go off on a tangent. That’s exactly what you have done.

That’s what happens when a false religion has no leg to stand on.

Answer the question.

I did not go off on a tangent; a Catholic asked me a question regarding Islam’s position on Mary and I provided an answer. Pay attention.

I answered your question already. I won’t repeat myself.

 

[spn82756]

I did not go off on a tangent; a Catholic asked me a question regarding Islam’s position on Mary and I provided an answer. Pay attention.

Then he didn’t stick to the question. I’ll have to look back and see the context of his/her question.

In any event…you’ve not answered the question that I proposed.

Oh…I noticed that you say you answered the question and won’t repeat yourself. When it comes to proclaiming Jesus as God…I will repeat myself as often as needed to counter heresy.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Okay…I really am not looking for repeated verses from the Koran or debating. My question is…

"The Angel Gabriel told Mary that she would have the Son of God. Not just a man…but the Incarnation of God. The GREAT I AM! The Word made Flesh. God…not a metaphor…but True God.

So…what do you say about the Angel Gabriel that Mohammad claims spoke to him on God’s behalf and denied Jesus is God? Again…no debating. No empty words…PLEASE just answer the question.

I’m a little bit confused on what exactly you’re asking. Are you asking for the Muslim opinion on Jesus, the validity that this was Gabriel, or something else?

 

[spn82756]

I’m a little bit confused on what exactly you’re asking. Are you asking for the Muslim opinion on Jesus, the validity that this was Gabriel, or something else?

The validity that it was really gabriel. if it was really gabriel…then our faith is in vain. Fortunately I know it wasn’t Gabriel. As I believe you know also.

 

[Kadaveri]

Then he didn’t stick to the question. I’ll have to look back and see the context of his/her question.

In any event…you’ve not answered the question that I proposed.

Oh…I noticed that you say you answered the question and won’t repeat yourself. When it comes to proclaiming Jesus as God…I will repeat myself as often as needed to counter heresy.

Well you shouldn’t have to look back very far, seeing how I quoted said question right before I gave the answer you found so objectionable.

You can repeat yourself claiming that Jesus is God and that I’m a heretic all you want, obviously the two of us are unlikely to reach an agreement on the matter. But don’t pretend that I didn’t answer your question.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

The validity that it was really gabriel. if it was really gabriel…then our faith is in vain. Fortunately I know it wasn’t Gabriel. As I believe you know also.

Ah, there you run into the great problem of presupposition. He was Gabriel ultimately because Mohammad said he was Gabriel. Yet why then would an angel of God teach something that contradicts what came before him? Then comes the presupposition of scriptural corruption. How do we know the scripture was corrupted? Because it contradicts the Quran. Why should we use a document that came 600 years later with no relations to those it claims to pontificate on as our standard? Because Mohammad said so. It leads to a circular argumentation that unfortunately doesn’t get any where.

There is good reason why Paul warned about supposed revelations from angels.

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [Gal 1:8]

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. [2 Cor 11:13-14]

 

[spn82756]

Ah, there you run into the great problem of presupposition. He was Gabriel ultimately because Mohammad said he was Gabriel. Yet why then would an angel of God teach something that contradicts what came before him? Then comes the presupposition of scriptural corruption. How do we know the scripture was corrupted? Because it contradicts the Quran. Why should we use a document that came 600 years later with no relations to those it claims to pontificate on as our standard? Because Mohammad said so. It leads to a circular argumentation that unfortunately doesn’t get any where.

There is good reason why Paul warned about supposed revelations from angels.
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [Gal 1:8]

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. [2 Cor 11:13-14]

 

[spn82756]

Well you shouldn’t have to look back very far, seeing how I quoted said question right before I gave the answer you found so objectionable.

You can repeat yourself claiming that Jesus is God and that I’m a heretic all you want, obviously the two of us are unlikely to reach an agreement on the matter. But don’t pretend that I didn’t answer your question.

Ah…and then there is planten who on another thread says that muslims have more respect for the Gospel than Christians.

Heretics? Yes…anyone that believes the Satan rather than Christ is a heretic.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

Ah, there you run into the great problem of presupposition. He was Gabriel ultimately because Mohammad said he was Gabriel. Yet why then would an angel of God teach something that contradicts what came before him? Then comes the presupposition of scriptural corruption. How do we know the scripture was corrupted? Because it contradicts the Quran. Why should we use a document that came 600 years later with no relations to those it claims to pontificate on as our standard? Because Mohammad said so. It leads to a circular argumentation that unfortunately doesn’t get any where.

There is good reason why Paul warned about supposed revelations from angels.

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [Gal 1:8]

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. [2 Cor 11:13-14]

Wonderful… Just wonderful…

FSC

 

[planten]

There’s the first answer. A NON-Answer! I guess he/she didn’t understand the question.

spn, I have not read all the posts yet. If that was Non Answer from the Sonof Adam, then I better ask you a question about your opening post: See below:

"The Angel Gabriel told Mary that she would have the Son of God. Not just a man…but the Incarnation of God. The GREAT I AM! The Word made Flesh. God…not a metaphor…but True God

spn, please Tell me, from where did you get all that?? Is that from your bible or it is from the Quran?? Let us know.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

spn, I have not read all the posts yet. If that was Non Answer from the Sonof Adam, then I better ask you a question about your opening post: See below:

spn, please Tell me, from where did you get all that?? Is that from your bible or it is from the Quran?? Let us know.

From the bible…