Muslims please... Gabriel

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One of the things I SPECIFICALLY asked was for muslims not to go off on a tangent. That’s exactly what you have done.

That’s what happens when a false religion has no leg to stand on.

Answer the question.
spn, please blame your friend crazzeto who went on a tangent introducing the perpetual virginity of Mary to Muslims. That was a mistake and Kadaveri replied to that. You should check your own horses instead of blaming the muslims. See post number 15 of crazzeto below:.
Yet I understand you accept the propetual virginity of, and sinlessness of Mary? Is that so?
 
spn, I have not read all the posts yet. If that was Non Answer from the Sonof Adam, then I better ask you a question about your opening post: See below:

spn, please Tell me, from where did you get all that?? Is that from your bible or it is from the Quran?? Let us know.
The Bible. The only sacred scripture!
 
spn, please blame your friend cresetto who went on a tangent introducing the perpetual virginity of Mary to Muslims. That was a mistake and Kadaveri replied to that. You should check your own horses instead of blaming the muslims. See post number 20.
I don’t own any horses. Just three german shepherds! 😃
 
The Bible. The only sacred scripture!
spn, if your opening post question was from the bible then you are in serious trouble. Please quote the chapter and verse number of the bibleNT of your following words:
"The Angel Gabriel told Mary that she would have the Son of God. Not just a man…but the Incarnation of God. The GREAT I AM! The Word made Flesh. God…not a metaphor…but True God
.

It appears that you have made up this question and we Muslims do not chase shadows. spn, Bring something real. or give reference of the bibleNT.
 
spn, if your opening post question was from the bible then you are in serious trouble. Please quote the chapter and verse number of the bibleNT of your following words:

.

It appears that you have made up this question and we Muslims do not chase shadows. spn, Bring something real. or give reference of the bibleNT.
luke 1:26-56.

Believers in islam cannot chase shadows…for it takes light to cast shadows.
 
luke 1:26-56.

Believers in islam cannot chase shadows…for it takes light to cast shadows.
spn, thanks for giving the reference which you had kept away before. It is good that you saw some light. Now we shall go to Luke to examine what he said. Very soon we will be back within few days.
. It would still be better if you posted the Luke verses yourself. Because there are so many vesions of the bible. And there is a new version of your own which you have summarily designed and posted. Which version should be trusted and which version you used to derive the shadow type question.?? Will you do something or you will keep your question in the dark?? Let us see…
 
spn, thanks for giving the reference which you had kept away before. It is good that you saw some light. Now we shall go to Luke to examine what he said. Very soon we will be back within few days.
. It would still be better if you posted the Luke verses yourself. Because there are so many vesions of the bible. And there is a new version of your own which you have summarily designed and posted. Which version should be trusted and which version you used to derive the shadow type question.?? Will you do something or you will keep your question in the dark?? Let us see…
From
Douay-Rheims Translation

**1:26. And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth,

1:27. To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David: and the virgin’s name was Mary.

1:28. And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

1:29. Who having heard, was troubled at his saying and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be.

1:30. And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

1:31. Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb and shalt bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name Jesus.

1:32. He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.

1:33. And of his kingdom there shall be no end.

1:34. And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?

1:35. And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

1:36. And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren.

1:37. Because no word shall be impossible with God.

1:38. And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord: be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

1:39. And Mary rising up in those days, went into the hill country with haste into a city of Juda.

1:40. And she entered into the house of Zachary and saluted Elizabeth.

1:41. And it came to pass that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.

1:42. And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

1:43. And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

1:44. For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.

1:45. And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.

1:46. And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.

1:47. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

1:48. Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Shall call me blessed. . .These words are a prediction of that honour which the church in all ages should pay to the Blessed Virgin. Let Protestants examine whether they are any way concerned in this prophecy.

1:49. Because he that is mighty hath done great things to me: and holy is his name.

1:50. And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.

1:51. He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.

1:52. He hath put down the mighty from their seat and hath exalted the humble.

1:53. He hath filled the hungry with good things: and the rich he hath sent empty away.

1:54. He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy.

1:55. As he spoke to our fathers: to Abraham and to his seed for ever.

1:56. And Mary abode with her about three months. And she returned to her own house.
**
 
From
Douay-Rheims Translation
.
Mary had become afraid by the appearance of the angel Gabriel. The angel told her not to be afraid. The angel repeated the good words of solutations to Mary. Angel inforned Mary that she was chosen by God for some special favor, some special status (maqaam).
1:31. Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb and shalt bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name Jesus.
Luke is building the story of the angel Gabriel and Mary dialogue. Angel told Mary that she will bear a son whom she should name Jesus. Please note that the news is about a son. (New born son.)
1:32. He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
There are many strange news here.
  1. Jesus will be called the son of the most High. Perhaps most high means King David or it means God.
  2. The Lord God shall give him the throne of his father David.
  3. And he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
    Are we to believe all those things?. That the father of Jesus will be King David but Jesus will be called the son of God?? Why is that.??
    So we should believe that Jesus is really the son of King David. But he should be called the son of God. Jesus cannot be the son of King David and at the same time the son of God. There are many more problems in the above verse.
    Jesus did not sit on the throne of David even for one day.
    Jesus did not reign in the house of Jacob at all.
It appears that all that was not true. Could any Catholic please tell why it was not true?? Was Gabriel telling lies?? To Mary?? Was it the bad work of the angel Gabriel or it was some mistake of Luke who was building up a story??
1:33. And of his kingdom there shall be no end
.
Please follow the words that Luke is telling. The same objection is here. Jesus did not have any kingdom in real words even for one day. Why not we talk in real terms here and not take too much liberty with common words??
1:34. And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?
Here comes the most difficult task of producing a child. It is better that we take a break here and think over the meaning of the story beng described by Luke.
[/QUOTE]
 
1:34. And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?
Mary was grown up enough to know all about how children are born. She was not married yet.

1:35. And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
This is quite a good way to produce a child by way (by the agency) of the holy ghost. Quite unusual.

1:36. And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren.
To convince Mary about the news, the angel gave Mary further news about her cousin Elizabeth that she was pregnant. I do not know if it was legal to disclose such private matters…

1:37. Because no word shall be impossible with God.
This is further being said by the angel. It is a strange sentence in which word is being brought.It could eaisly be said “No work is impossible with God.” I cannot believe why the angel had to say such words. Children are being born every where. Why the angel had to say that. Perhaps it was to show that Mary will have a child without knowing any man. That is a surprising thing coming from Luke and Gabriel (combination).

1:38. And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord: be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
It shows that Mary agreed to have a child as she was told by Gabriel.

1:39. And Mary rising up in those days, went into the hill country with haste into a city of Juda.
It is not clear after how many days did Mary go to hill country to Juda. Soon after the dialogue or after few months, years… It appears that Mary was at the temple when the news of Jesus was given to her. (That is as per Quran. Bible does not tell about temple.) It is known that Mary was at Nazareth when the angel gabriel visited her. It has to be decided why she was in Nazareth.Was that her place of birth. Where was the temple of zakariyah??
 
spn, thanks for giving the reference which you had kept away before. It is good that you saw some light. Now we shall go to Luke to examine what he said. Very soon we will be back within few days.
. It would still be better if you posted the Luke verses yourself. Because there are so many vesions of the bible. And there is a new version of your own which you have summarily designed and posted. Which version should be trusted and which version you used to derive the shadow type question.?? Will you do something or you will keep your question in the dark?? Let us see…
Oh goodness… I forgot Planten was a WE…
 
spn82756;6326813:
There are many strange news here.
  1. Jesus will be called the son of the most High. Perhaps most high means King David or it means God.
  2. The Lord God shall give him the throne of his father David
.
3. And he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.
Are we to believe all those things?. That the father of Jesus will be King David but Jesus will be called the son of God?? Why is that.??
So we should believe that Jesus is really the son of King David. But he should be called the son of God. Jesus cannot be the son of King David and at the same time the son of God. There are many more problems in the above verse.
Jesus did not sit on the throne of David even for one day.
Jesus did not reign in the house of Jacob at all.

.

Hello Planten,

Thank you for your Honesty in trying to understand our Bible. Are you going to take a break or are you up for some comments. You have raised some very good questions and there are some very good answers.

Peace and Godbless
 
Hello Planten,

Thank you for your Honesty in trying to understand our Bible. Are you going to take a break or are you up for some comments. You have raised some very good questions and there are some very good answers.

Peace and Godbless
Hmmmm…I didn’t post what was quoted. 🤷
 
Hmmmm…I didn’t post what was quoted. 🤷
Wow that is strange, I clicked to respond to Planten, and its got your name in it. I apologize for that, but I didn’t click on your post. I just deleted out most his comments from his post and submitted.

Twilight zone!

edit to add:

I think I see what happened? In his post he had a Quote of Your post that was missing a quote block and when I posted? It appently took the Quote from my post and blocked it as a double quote.
 
luke 1:26-56.

Believers in islam cannot chase shadows…for it takes light to cast shadows.
Planten still at it,

That answer is a cop out, in the understanding that we do have a unity in understanding on what is authorized by the the one true Church (not a mosque) which Jesus Christ founded. Now their are versions that are not 100% Catholic, but the church issues a stamp of approval on what we can accept as true.

You should take in mind, that Catholics have gotten many attacks from the devil on our religion, it’s because we oppose him. I am so sorry that this is confusing for you, but this is the way the devil does it, have you experienced any of this??? The church militant will continue fighting though.

Now can you inform me of what governing authority does Islam have in controlling all the different versions of the Quran…?

What is not so confusing is your absolute belief that the Koran doesn’t have many version… That to me is a witness that the Devil has absolutely no problem with it… or else he would of tried to scandalize it as he has tried with the Bible.

You see,God (The Holy Trinity) new this would happen so the Spirit of truth guides the church he founded, keeping the WORD of God from error…

Now you can be ignorant of this fact or not. But if not, when you are ready to join I will be waiting with open arms.
 
Wow that is strange, I clicked to respond to Planten, and its got your name in it. I apologize for that, but I didn’t click on your post. I just deleted out most his comments from his post and submitted.

Twilight zone!

edit to add:

I think I see what happened? In his post he had a Quote of Your post that was missing a quote block and when I posted? It appently took the Quote from my post and blocked it as a double quote.
Same thing happened here… hmmmm…
 
Same thing happened here… hmmmm…
I think I see what happened? In his post he had a Quote of Your post that was missing a quote block and when I posted? It appently took the Quote from my post and blocked it as a double quote.
Code:
             ^
             ^
             ^
             ^ say this ten times...FAST :D
 
In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary. And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.” But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be. Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, 11 and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

Just as Planten stated earlier in this post below: Where was it stated in the bible?
"The Angel Gabriel told Mary that she would have the Son of God. Not just a man…but the Incarnation of God. The GREAT I AM! The Word made Flesh. God…not a metaphor…but True God

Where did this statement appear in the above quote from Luke? The GREAT I AM. 🙂
Second Which disciple was Luke?? I forget which one of the 12 he was.
Was Luke written by Luke?

If I were Muslim I would answer:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.

Have a nice night to all.

T
 
In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary. And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.” But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be. Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, 11 and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

Just as Planten stated earlier in this post below: Where was it stated in the bible?
"The Angel Gabriel told Mary that she would have the Son of God. Not just a man…but the Incarnation of God. The GREAT I AM! The Word made Flesh. God…not a metaphor…but True God

Where did this statement appear in the above quote from Luke? The GREAT I AM. 🙂
Second Which disciple was Luke?? I forget which one of the 12 he was.
Was Luke written by Luke?

If I were Muslim I would answer:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.

Have a nice night to all.

T
I paraphrased Luke…but then supplied the numbers of the chapter and verses. Then he asked for the actual text. I then supplied that.

Others have also supplied quotes indicating where in the bible Jesus claimed to be God. 🙂
 
I paraphrased Luke…but then supplied the numbers of the chapter and verses. Then he asked for the actual text. I then supplied that.

Others have also supplied quotes indicating where in the bible Jesus claimed to be God. 🙂
spn, initially you had paraphrased some text from your own mind for your Opening Post… When asked for the reference, you told Luke 1:26 to 56.
When asked for actual text, you provided the text too.
Now I am commenting on the text provided by you. I have not checked or amended the text. I am taking your text of Luke chapter 1 and trying to understand what Luke was saying. What was the meaning of those things?

In the very beginning of chapter 1, verse 1, Luke had said that he was writing those things as some other people had written them, by asking and listening to people. So it all appears to be some third hand experiance. But let it be so. Let us understand Luke. Does all that stand to reason or logic? Or that is all some sentimental story??

There is no word from Jesus there. But most of it is from God care of angel Gabriel. That God must be the God Father.

I have already raised some genuine questions. I hope they will be answered calmly. Some Tajik friend has jumped in with some good advice to me. I will try to take that advice too.
 
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