Muslims please... Gabriel

[seraphime2008]

John 12:47-49
47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.

When Jesus said this , he was saying about the purpose of Him coming to the world. After his mission finished, He returned to be fully one of triune God, given the power to judge people.

48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

***I think it’s clear that the people who reject Jesus at the judgment day will have no other means of saving themselves but to be ready for the condemnation. See Jesus said:“the very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.” It’s really coherent!

---

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.

This doesn’t contradict since the Father has given all the authority to judge to His Son. What’s the meaning than for the word Jesus said : I and the Father are one…!

 

[planten]

John 12:47-49
47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.
48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.

Like I have mentioned before in other threads, wherever the Bible contradicts the Qur’an, then you are sure to find verses where the Bible would contradict itself.

The above verses of the Bible show that Jesus (pbuh) himself has said that it is not he who will do the judging but it is God Almighty Himself who will judge His creations on the Day of Judgment.

hamba, thank you for presenting the above beautiful good words of Jesus. We should all try to gain wisdom from those words, as much as we can.

 

[seraphime2008]

Planten,
H2H’s argument has been refuted! Please see that!
Don’t be a ridiculous clown!

 

[planten]

Planten,
H2H’s argument has been refuted! Please see that!
Don’t be a ridiculous clown!

seraphime, thanks for correcting. I did not follow all the posts. I just read John 12:47-49 and liked the verses, i.e. the direct words of Jesus. If you have contradicted or corrected those verses then please tell me. I will agree to you. Should I forget/ disbelieve John 12:47-49 ??

 

[seraphime2008]

seraphime, thanks for correcting. I did not follow all the posts. I just read John 12:47-49 and liked the verses, i.e. the direct words of Jesus. If you have contradicted or corrected those verses then please tell me. I will agree to you. Should I forget/ disbelieve John 12:47-49 ??

See post that I post before u abruptly said that H2H’s argument was really good…man!
U know your remind me of this: :banghead:

 

[hamba2han]

On Judgement Day, Jesus the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Judge of the living and the dead knows everything there is to know about the person being judged because every deed of every person has been recorded in the Books of Deeds. Both the Bible and Quran agree on this.

(Rev 20:11-12)
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Quran 54.52-53
**All that they do is noted in (their) Books (of Deeds): **
Every matter, small and great, is on record.

Quran 78:29-31
And all things have We preserved on record.
“So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds); for no increase shall We grant you, except in Punishment.”
Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfilment of (the heart’s) desires;

On the Day of Judgment, it is true that the Books of Deeds will be shown to every one of us.

However, the One who will judge us will not only know all of our deeds but He will also need to know what was in our hearts when we did every one of these deeds in order to deliver the judgment which is the most just.

The angels who have recorded all of our deeds throughout our lives will not know what was in our hearts.

Will Jesus (pbuh) know what was in our hearts?

If you say ‘Yes’, then who will inform him of what lies in our hearts?.. since this is what an Omniscient Lord of the Day of Judgment would know i.e. what is in our hearts.

And if the answer is ‘No’, then this means that Jesus (pbuh) or anyone else would simply not be able to deliver the most just judgment on another person’s life.

 

[spn82756]

On the Day of Judgment, it is true that the Books of Deeds will be shown to every one of us.

However, the One who will judge us will not only know all of our deeds but He will also need to know what was in our hearts when we did every one of these deeds in order to deliver the judgment which is the most just.

The angels who have recorded all of our deeds throughout our lives will not know what was in our hearts.

Will Jesus (pbuh) know what was in our hearts?

If you say ‘Yes’, then who will inform him of what lies in our hearts?.. since this is what an Omniscient Lord of the Day of Judgment would know i.e. what is in our hearts.

And if the answer is ‘No’, then this means that Jesus (pbuh) or anyone else would simply not be able to deliver the most just judgment on another person’s life.

Jesus will absolutely know what is in our hearts. He is God. He will also know that with full knowledge of His Gospel…you have rejected him.

 

[hamba2han]

I don’t understand what you are complaining about.

Since this thread has become less active of late, I don’t see any harm in discussing a point that was raised in an earlier post.

 

[planten]

I don’t understand what you are complaining about.

Since this thread has become less active of late, I don’t see any harm in discussing a point that was raised in an earlier post.

Hamba, I enjoyed that post with John 12;47-49 and i Peter 1:17

Originally Posted by hamba2han
John 12:47-49
47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.
48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.

But it appears that seraphime has somehow, somewhere, successfully rebutted (reversed) these good words of Jesus with some other comments from his bible. Thereby, these good words of Jesus should have no value for us.
But we respect these words of Jesus. The Christians do not like bible material to be discussed here. So they are suggesting that such good material should be presented in some other thread.
verse 47 is beautiful, telling us that Jesus need not judge any one who does not accept him. His words will be enough to put his rejectors to shame in the next world.
In verse 48, Jesus is telling that he is messenger of God. He was getting commands from God. He was guided in the matters of what to say and what to do. We Thank Allah that we Muslims are not the rejectors of Jesus. We believe that Jesus was a messenger (Rasool) of God to the Jews.

The verse 1 Peter 1:17 is also very good.

Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear

It is telling that God the Father is the Judge. We Muslims also believe that God is more than a Judge. He is the Master of the day of judgement… “Maalik i Yaum ilDeen.”.
Judge has limited authority. Judge is given a law according to that he has to judge. But Master is the Master of the law and judgement.

Peter is also telling every one to be God fearing i.e. to be Muttaquee. How beautiful words telling the same thing that Quran is also teaching.

Furthermore, John the Baptist and Jesus both preached repentence. I do not see the christians (Catholics) mentioning repentence. All they are doing is preaching God is the Father of Jesus and Jesus gave his life and took away all the sins of the sinful christians.

From your post, I have learnt a good lesson from bibleNT and my love for Jesus has increased. Thanks.

 

[seraphime2008]

Hamba, I enjoyed that post with John 12;47-49 and i Peter 1:17

But it appears that seraphime has somehow, somewhere, successfully rebutted (reversed) these good words of Jesus with some other comments from his bible. Thereby, these good words of Jesus should have no value for us.

 

[Vile_Servant]

However, the One who will judge us will not only know all of our deeds but He will also need to know what was in our hearts when we did every one of these deeds in order to deliver the judgment which is the most just.

So you are saying that someone who does evil deeds can go to paradise?

 

[seraphime2008]

So you are saying that someone who does evil deeds can go to paradise?

Good poit VS,
of course muslims indeed believe so, otherwise they cannot defend the evil deeds that their prophet had done so, you know deep down in Muhammad’s heart he was only giving protection when marrying right away the ladies whose husbands he slayed…

 

[SonofAdam]

Analyze the comments in these threads and others; the etiquette that is displayed is disgusting. Bad manners is one of the worse things to have; that alone can prevent someone from continuing in any discussion.

 

[spn82756]

You’re just successful in not answering the problem of Islamic Gabriel which looks very suspicious. It’s always a tacit method of exposing the inability to be fair and straight.

And there you have the crux of the problem with islam. Their angel gabriel is not Gabriel of the Bible. Their gabriel is a fraud. A wolf in sheep’s clothing.

 

[Vile_Servant]

Analyze the comments in these threads and others; the etiquette that is displayed is disgusting. Bad manners is one of the worse things to have; that alone can prevent someone from continuing in any discussion.

Pls point out the offensive posts to the moderators. It is also not correct to tar all comments with the same brush. chrisb for example has been polite and fair in his comments and etiquette.

peace.

 

[SonofAdam]

I never claimed ‘all’ comments nor was that intended. A moderator is not needed, people need to pay attention to what they say thats all.

 

[GerrardLerux]

So you are saying that someone who does evil deeds can go to paradise?

I think that the Muslim here is saying the the divine judge has to known what is in the heart of the person being judged…? Take a look at Mt 9:4 and Mk 2:6 and Mk 2:8. Jesus fits the description. Jesus could discern the thoughts and feelings of those to whom he spoke and gave clear proofs of his omniscience.