Muslims: Please note the Advocate is the Holy Spirit

[hasantas]

Was Muhammad invisible…??

Was Muhammad inside the Apostles…??

:tsktsk:

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. John:16-19

There are metaphorical statements in the verses. For instance “he may abide with you for ever”. Nobody can abide for ever.

If you say Holy Spirit can abide for ever but people cannot abide for ever. The true meaning may be that: he will be abide for ever with his disciplines and nobody else will break in you and Him. No prophet will come after Muhammed.

When Jesus say “you” He does not mean the people around Him in that times. But Jesus mean believers with “you”. Because Jesus say " I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." We know Jesus will come back close to end of the world. But the people who were used to be in that time will not be any more. But the believers always will be.

And also Jesus said “Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.” The world would not see Jesus but “you” will see me. That mean the believers will see me. Islamic scholars explain that everydody will not know Jesus obviously when He come back. Jesus can be seen/known with a certain true faith.

So “the world will not see and know Muhammed but you will know” mean that the believers will know Him and He will dwell with you(believers) and in you. Muhammed was with and in believers. The initially nobody know and accept Him but later believers know and see the evidences of the prophethood on Him.

 

[hasantas]

Did he error when he admittedly was led astray/fooled by the devil?

If you are fooled by devil? Do you think that?

 

[EIF5A]

Islam do not deny Christianity and Bible and far from it Islam approve Bible. Muslims do not say that entire Bible was corrupted. The corruption is partially and especially in some spesific issues. If there were no corruption there would be many obvious verses which point Muhammed.

So in your opinion, the “true” Scripture mentions Muhammed but the Christians removed/replaced them?

 

[hasantas]

Muhammad was with and inside the Apostles?

Was Holy Spirit with and inside the apostles?(Notice Holy Spirit is God who had not incarnated like Jesus!)

The meaning may be that: Muhammed will be with and inside believers how Jesus will be with them again. There are figurative statements in verses.

 

[dronald]

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. John:16-19

There are metaphorical statements in the verses. For instance “he may abide with you for ever”. Nobody can abide for ever.

If you say Holy Spirit can abide for ever but people cannot abide for ever. The true meaning may be that: he will be abide for ever with his disciplines and nobody else will break in you and Him. No prophet will come after Muhammed.

When Jesus say “you” He does not mean the people around Him in that times. But Jesus mean believers with “you”. Because Jesus say " I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." We know Jesus will come back close to end of the world. But the people who were used to be in that time will not be any more. But the believers always will be.

And also Jesus said “Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.” The world would not see Jesus but “you” will see me. That mean the believers will see me. Islamic scholars explain that everydody will not know Jesus obviously when He come back. Jesus can be seen/known with a certain true faith.

So “the world will not see and know Muhammed but you will know” mean that the believers will know Him and He will dwell with you(believers) and in you. Muhammed was with and in believers. The initially nobody know and accept Him but later believers know and see the evidences of the prophethood on Him.

“Now this heresy of yours does not receive certain Scriptures; and whichever of them it does receive, it perverts by means of additions and diminutions, for the accomplishment of it own purpose; and such as it does receive, it receives not in their entirety; but even when it does receive any up to a certain point as entire, it nevertheless perverts even these by the contrivance of diverse interpretations.”

-Tertullian. Second Century.

Some things never change.

 

[hasantas]

Muhammad was sent in Jesus’s name?

I cannot interpret that verse. But that does not seem so problematic. Jesus said that I wiil ask from Father(God) to send comforter. So Paraclete may come in that sense. Or Muhammed will come and progress the Jesus’s job and that will be with His name. Muhammed came and did duty of prophethood like Jesus.

Ofcourse there may be an other interpretation.

 

[EIF5A]

I cannot interpret that verse. But that does not seem so problematic. Jesus said that I wiil ask from Father(God) to send comforter. So Paraclete may come in that sense. Or Muhammed will come and progress the Jesus’s job and that will be with His name. Muhammed came and did duty of prophethood like Jesus.

Ofcourse there may be an other interpretation.

I don’t understand how Muslims can believe He (Jesus) is a prophet.

Either He is the Son of God Who died for the sins of humanity just as He said, or He is a crazy person.

How can Muhammad “progress” what Jesus did?

Does Muhammad’s personal life not give you pause and make you ask yourself, “Something about this man is off”?

 

[hasantas]

“Now this heresy of yours does not receive certain Scriptures; and whichever of them it does receive, it perverts by means of additions and diminutions, for the accomplishment of it own purpose; and such as it does receive, it receives not in their entirety; but even when it does receive any up to a certain point as entire, it nevertheless perverts even these by the contrivance of diverse interpretations.”

-Tertullian. Second Century.

Some things never change.

Then why do you interpret " spirit of truth" as Holy Spirit for the accomplihment of your own purpose?

If you look at certain statements in entire Bible Jesus say “I will ask from father”(that show that Jesus is not God because if He were God He would not ask for permission) then why do you struggle to interpret that certain verses with a mystery? Or with love?

 

[dronald]

I cannot interpret that verse. But that does not seem so problematic. Jesus said that I wiil ask from Father(God) to send comforter. So Paraclete may come in that sense. Or Muhammed will come and progress the Jesus’s job and that will be with His name. Muhammed came and did duty of prophethood like Jesus.

Ofcourse there may be an other interpretation.

So Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will be sent by the Father in Jesus’s name.

Again, read what I posted by Tertullian because I believe it sums up you and other Muslims well.

You want the passages you quote to say something it doesn’t, and yet you ignore the passages that leave your interpretations hopeless:

John 20:
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld. "

24 Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.

25 So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord. " But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe. "

26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you. "

27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe. "

28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God! "

29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. "

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age. "

 

[hasantas]

I don’t understand how Muslims can believe he’s a prophet.

Either He is the Son of God Who died for the sins of humanity just as He said, or He is a crazy person.

How can Muhammad “progress” what Jesus did?

Does Muhammad’s personal life not give you pause and make you ask yourself, “Something about this man is off”?

And we Muslims are so confused because of Christians think Jesus was God. And how they put a human instead God. That is very adventurous.

Everything about Muhammed is excellent and Muhammed is the highest human in all manner. Can you say a wrong thing in His life?( I expect what will you say!)

Jesus never claim that He is Son of God. Father mean saver and protector and that mean God. Holy Sipirit is angel Gabriel but you assume Him an other God. There is no such thing in previous scripture and also in Bible neither. But you interpret that with strained interpretation.

 

[EIF5A]

And we Muslims are so confused because of Christians think Jesus was God. And how they put a human instead God. That is very adventurous.

Everything about Muhammed is excellent and Muhammed is the highest human in all manner. Can you say a wrong thing in His life?( I expect what will you say!)

Jesus never claim that He is Son of God. Father mean saver and protector and that mean God. Holy Sipirit is angel Gabriel but you assume Him an other God. There is no such thing in previous scripture and also in Bible neither. But you interpret that with strained interpretation.

Gabriel is a created being. Holy Spirit is consubstantial with God the Father and Jesus and is not created.

The Holy Trinity is a mystery (One God, Three Persons) that the human intellect can never fully comprehend. And I don’t mind that my God is incomprehensible.

 

[dronald]

Then why do you interpret " spirit of truth" as Holy Spirit for the accomplihment of your own purpose?

I don’t Hasantas. Instead I read the whole Bible, not just pick the parts I like:

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld. "

If you look at certain statements in entire Bible Jesus say “I will ask from father”(that show that Jesus is not God because if He were God He would not ask for permission) then why do you struggle to interpret that certain verses with a mystery? Or with love?

Jesus had to ask permission in His humanity in order to fulfill all righteousness.

In order for a perfect man to be perfect he must act perfectly. No one is perfect except God; in fact “no one is good except God.” So for a sinner to take on the sins of all mankind would be impossible; rather, God did it for us, because while we were still sinners He loved us.

It can be explained Hasantas; you just don’t accept it.

 

[adrift]

Jesus never claim that He is Son of God. .

Luke 22
70 And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.”

 

[dronald]

Luke 22
70 And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.”

I like this one:

Mark 14:61 But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? "

62 And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven. "

63 And the high priest tore his garments and said, "What further witnesses do we need?

64 You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision? " And they all condemned him as deserving death.

Jesus quoted this:

Daniel 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

 

[hasantas]

Luke 22
70 And they all said, “Are You the Son of God, then?” And He said to them, “Yes, I am.”

64 And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee? Luke 22:64

They accused Jesus to be a prophet and Messenger of God. Most of Jews did not believe in Jesus that He was a prophet. Jews did that for many prophets and Jews tortured and killed prophets. A Jew woman try to kill prophet Muhammed too with poison. I do not mean all Jews but there have been always a group which did evil things.

Jesus is Son of Blessed Mary and that is all.

 

[fasolislithuan]

a

…

To use John 14 to force the presence of Muhammed in the Bible has always been a bizarre aspiration. Is untenable and easily refutable

1. *I shall ask the Father, and he will give you another Paraclete to be with you for ever, *(Mat 14:17)

Jesus is speaking here with His apostles, **the Holy Spirit (and not Muhammed) came and abided with them in Pentecost. Muhammed was late five centuries
**

1. the Spirit of truth whom the world can never accept since it neither sees nor knows him; but you know him, because he is with you, he is in you (Mat 14:17)

Again Muhammed was late five centuries. Jesus is specific* “you know him”*. The apostles never knew Muhammed, and Muhammed never was with them.

1. but the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you. (John 14,26)

This is the most important verse that refutes the muslim aspiration that Muhammed=paraclite The Paraclete is identify unmistakably as the Holy Spirit. Period.

The Paraclite is the Holy Spirit. Therefore Matthew 1:20 "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because she has conceived what is in her by the Holy Spirit.
and Luke 1:35: *The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will cover you with its shadow. And so the child will be holy and will be called Son of God. *
show us that B] the Paraclite is who participes in the divine conception of Jesus. I ask you: Does Jesus was conceived by Muhammed’s intervention?

Is irrelevant that muslims can say about a corrupted Bible. If they reject the Bible as corrupted but pick a pair of verses and twisted them to justify the presence of Muhammed in the Bible they are making a bad and deceptive practice. That’s not honest and they know. So we don’t have a lot to say. It’s a subject of their consciences.

 

[hasantas]

a

To use John 14 to force the presence of Muhammed in the Bible has always been a bizarre aspiration. Is untenable and easily refutable

1. I shall ask the Father, and he will give you another Paraclete to be with you for ever, (Mat 14:17)

Jesus is speaking here with His apostles, **the Holy Spirit (and not Muhammed) came and abided with them in Pentecost. Muhammed was late five centuries
**

1. the Spirit of truth whom the world can never accept since it neither sees nor knows him; but you know him, because he is with you, he is in you (Mat 14:17)

Again Muhammed was late five centuries. Jesus is specific* “you know him”*. The apostles never knew Muhammed, and Muhammed never was with them.

1. but the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you. (John 14,26)

This is the most important verse that refutes the muslim aspiration that Muhammed=paraclite The Paraclete is identify unmistakably as the Holy Spirit. Period.

The Paraclite is the Holy Spirit. Therefore Matthew 1:20 "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because she has conceived what is in her by the Holy Spirit.
and Luke 1:35: *The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will cover you with its shadow. And so the child will be holy and will be called Son of God. *
show us that B] the Paraclite is who participes in the divine conception of Jesus

. I ask you: Does Jesus was conceived by Muhammed’s intervention?

Is irrelevant that muslims can say about a corrupted Bible. If they reject the Bible as corrupted but pick a pair of verses and twisted them to justify the presence of Muhammed in the Bible they are making a bad and deceptive practice. That’s not honest and they know. So we don’t have a lot to say. It’s a subject of their consciences.

If Holy Spirit is a God then how other God will send Holy Spirit? Do Gods travel? God do not need to go somewhere to do something. God is omnipotent and God is out and beyond of time and place. So we cannot say God may approach more close but God is the most close in everywhere in every position.

The spirit of truth cannot be Holy Spirit but that can be angel Gabriel and Gabriel is named as Holy Spirit in Islam.

Either there would be evidence in Bible for prophet Muhammed or not but Muhammed is a prophet in other many ways. Muslims do not prove Muhammed’s prophethood with that but Muslims struggle to show Christians the facts.

Bible is corrupted partially but yet Bible is a Holy scripture. Muslims do not reject scriptures and believing in scriptures is one of requirement of faith.

 

[hasantas]

Gabriel is a created being. Holy Spirit is consubstantial with God the Father and Jesus and is not created.

The Holy Trinity is a mystery (One God, Three Persons) that the human intellect can never fully comprehend. And I don’t mind that my God is incomprehensible.

So God would send a created being but not an other God. If there is a God who is named Holy Spirit then that Holy Spirit God can do everything without coming on the world. Or would that Holy Spirit God incarnate like Jesus(Son)?

I do not intend to insult or attack Christians but I struggle to tell the facts. Ofcourse I can see the comprehension of Christians which is being understood from Bible. As you would accept that concpet can be understood with a depth thoughts. But we can understand/take many other concepts easily without depth thoughts from Bible. If we establish our apprehension on the depth thoughts then there should be many other fantastic concepts.

 

[EIF5A]

So God would send a created being but not an other God. If there is a God who is named Holy Spirit then that Holy Spirit God can do everything without coming on the world. Or would that Holy Spirit God incarnate like Jesus(Son)?

I do not intend to insult or attack Christians but I struggle to tell the facts. Ofcourse I can see the comprehension of Christians which is being understood from Bible. As you would accept that concpet can be understood with a depth thoughts. But we can understand/take many other concepts easily without depth thoughts from Bible. If we establish our apprehension on the depth thoughts then there should be many other fantastic concepts.

Again, the mystery of The Holy Trinity. (Of the Three Persons, only Jesus has physical form – He is fully God and fully human at the same time. He became like us to redeem us, because only someone infinite and divine can do it.) No one understands God completely, and no human words can fully describe Him. There are not three gods.

I understand your confusion — in the past, some (well-meaning) people have fallen into various heresies trying to understand and describe The Holy Trinity, but doing so incorrectly. We believe and profess what is proclaimed by the Church Jesus established, not what we can understand with our minds.

And Angel Gabriel is a messenger of God. Gabriel, by himself, has no power and he too was created.

 

[fasolislithuan]

If Holy Spirit is a God then how other God will send Holy Spirit? Do Gods travel? God do not need to go somewhere to do something. God is omnipotent and God is out and beyond of time and place. So we cannot say God may approach more close but God is the most close in everywhere in every position.

The spirit of truth cannot be Holy Spirit but that can be angel Gabriel and Gabriel is named as Holy Spirit in Islam.

Either there would be evidence in Bible for prophet Muhammed or not but Muhammed is a prophet in other many ways. Muslims do not prove Muhammed’s prophethood with that but Muslims struggle to show Christians the facts.

Bible is corrupted partially but yet Bible is a Holy scripture. Muslims do not reject scriptures and believing in scriptures is one of requirement of faith.

That Gabriel is named as Holy Spirit in Islam is irrelevant to the discussion because the trascendent question to determine as principle of truth is who is the Paraclete according to the Bible, not who is exactly the Holy Spirit in Islam. If you want to be credible in your claims you’ll need to be flawless in your arguments. Therefore you’ll need to demonstrate your beliefs, i.e., that the Paraclete is Muhammed and the Holy Spirit is Gabriel but not in Islam** but precisely in the Bible**.

I’ll show you that Bible says, not my words:

1st) The Paraclite is the Holy Spirit (not Muhammed): “but the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.” (John 14,26).
2nd) The Holy Spirit cannot be Gabriel: " The angel replied, 'In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the House of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary" …] (Luke 1:26-27) and “The angel (Gabriel) answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will cover you with its shadow” (Luke 1:35).

The subject is pretty clear.Refute this clauses with the Bible if you can. They’re solid and well argumented claims. I don’t want to look disdainful with you (I respect you) but if you try to refute this with the presumptions of Islam I cannot take you seriously.