Muslims: Please note the Advocate is the Holy Spirit

[Matthew_Light]

If you listened you wouldn’t make the argument that Jesus says He will ask His Father means that He is just a prophet. We shake our heads because you are not listening.

Some Muslims do seem to believe that Jesus is just a prophet but the Qur’an says that Jesus is the Word of God and the Spirit of God and Muhammad is quoted in the Hadith as having said that Jesus was exalted above the other prophets.

 

[Servant19]

But that doesn’t change that throughout the entire Bible it is claimed that Jesus was crucified and resurrected. This is where Christianity or Islam stands or falls.

If Jesus was crucified then Islam is not true and you must be Christian. If Jesus was not crucified, then we must reject Christianity and our faith is in vain.

But all four of the Gospels; the Gospel you quote says Jesus was crucified! That’s why you’re not allowed to use our Bible for your interpretations; because you ignore this fact.

Dear friends, you have made an absolute conclusion on the verses of the Quran relating to the death/non-death of Jesus.

May I ask what you conclude or understand from the following verse in the Quran please?

And say not, of those who are killed in the cause of Allāh that they are dead, nay, they are living; only you perceive not.

(Holy Qur’ān 2:154)

Thankyou and God bless

.

 

[Thomas1981]

Muslims listen to your explanation but they have not to accept as you do not accept thiers. Nobody could change thoughts about self religion easily. Because everybody think his religion is true otherwise he would not believe in it. Here Muslims are more fair because Muslims do not reject Christians totaly but Christians do. Christians think Qur’an is not words of God but Muslims accept Bible to be words of God. But some cicurmstances show that Bible might be changed and Muslims only express that. Bible is not only belong to Christians but Bible is belong to all believers. So Muslims have right to interpret Bible. Muslims at least respect Jesus(source of Bible) as a prophet but Christians say Muhammed was foolled by a devil and that is very injurious. Have you ever seen a Muslim who insult a Christian. Muslims may think that Christians have some wrong thoughts but that is not insulting.

Jesus either may be a prophet or Son of God. Then we must discuss the possibility those two assertions. But you would not be angry when a Muslim say Jesus is not God.

The propblem is very serious. If Jesus or Holy Spirit is God then Muslims are at risk but if they are not God then Christians have responsibility.

There are both statements which give an impression to think that Jesus is a prophet or Son of God. Now I look at Bible and I see that there are much more verses which make me think that Jesus is a prophet. And the differences between texts of Gospels and absence of the original Bible is a problem. Only there are some phrases as “Son”. If we think that “Son” as “prophet” then all statements in Bible reconcile with each other. Because Jesus never imply a statement which show that Jesus has a infinite and divine power, command etc. (Except miracles because many prophets performed miracles) Jesus always say “I will ask from Father”. Father is superior etc. The numbers of these statements are much more such term"Son of God".

So is not a Muslims right to think that his thought is right? If we recognize Qur’an as the original words of God and never changed!

Hasantas, thank you for being willing to engage in this conversation. I was lurking and reading the conversation. I don’t agree with Islamic theology (of course, I’m a Christian) but it is helpful to understand what you believe. I pray that one days Muslims and Christians will be able to have a good relationship despite our differences. I notice that the relationship between Jews and Christians is quite good (at least right now, it wasn’t in the past). Given that many of the disagreements between Jews and Christians are similar to the disagreements between Muslims and Christians (on the divinity of Christ, the Trinity, etc.), that gives me hope that someday we can coexist peacefully with mutual respect and dialogue even if we disagree. So, thanks doing your part.

 

[adrift]

Some Muslims do seem to believe that Jesus is just a prophet but the Qur’an says that Jesus is the Word of God and the Spirit of God and Muhammad is quoted in the Hadith as having said that Jesus was exalted above the other prophets.

I am not sure what you are trying to say to me. I understand that Muslims do not believe Jesus is God but that He is a prophet. hasantas , from what I understood, was saying that Jesus addressed God as Father because Jesus is not God but a prophet that is what I meant by saying only. I was pointing out to Him that in my belief Jesus is both God and man. As a man He addresses His Father, but that does not make Him not God. As Paul stated Who

,* though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped

We cannot grasp with our puny human minds the Trinity.

St. Augustine was walking along the seashore trying to figure out the mystery of the Holy Trinity and came up to a little boy. The boy was trying to pour the ocean into a hole in the sand with a seashell. Augustine told the boy what he was doing was impossible. Then the little boy told Augustine that it is also impossible for the mind of man to try to understand the mystery of the Holy Trinity. The little boy turned into an angel and disappeared.

 

[Mount_Carmel]

Some Muslims do seem to believe that Jesus is just a prophet but the Qur’an says that Jesus is the Word of God and the Spirit of God and Muhammad is quoted in the Hadith as having said that Jesus was exalted above the other prophets.

Hmmn, firstly, then why do Muslims put Muhammad forward as their number one ‘Prophet’, and the model for Muslims to follow, along with his followers?

Then there are the many claims and confirmations of Jesus’ Divinity, in the OT as well as the NT - all stuff I hasten to add that was written down BEFORE Muhammad, and is still being written down in the Bible ever since?

If Jesus falsely proclaimed His divinity, then surely he would and should be condemned as either deluded or blasphemous?

 

[MartinJordan]

To whom it may concern: Can we stick with what the Bible says who is the Holy Spirit rather than going into what the Quran says or what the Hadiths. That is not why I started this thread.

MJ

 

[Mount_Carmel]

I just think that the Gospel and Christianity was never properly explained to Muhammad or he never understood it, and there has been a knock on effect through history. Jesus merely a Prophet but had a miraculous birth, makes no sense. Whole problem with the Quran is that it’s a self referencing book, you can’t put it to the test, you believe it because it is told to you. The Bible text is grossly corrupted even though there is actual physical evidence to the contrary. Why do you believe that - because the Quran says so. Didn’t the Lord say ‘love the Lord your God with all your mind’ in other words He wants us to reason and research and question.

Yes, I by and large go with the flow of your post.

It seems the Muhammad was influenced by a number of monotheistic philosophies, many of which were from fringe and non-mainstream ideas. He was also still attached to the polytheism of his parents and grandparents.

 

[MartinJordan]

Hasantas will also need to step back a bit and answer why Jesus said in John 16:

Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known.

Thus Impossible to be any other than the Holy Spirit.

MJ

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John16:7-13

Muhammed guide us into all truth.

Muhammed conveyed what will happen in the future.

Muhammed did not speak of Himself but He speak of whatsoever he hear. That statements explain the way which revelation come to Muhammed.

2-Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,
3-Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.
4-It is not but a revelation revealed, An-Najm(53):2-4

Muhammed heard revelation from Gabriel and got written through Sahabas.

What happened to verses 14 and 15 ; He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.” ???

Don’t avoid it. Thanks.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Holy Spirit cannot be comforter because Holy Spirit is God as you assume(Indeed it is angel Gabriel). Jesus was a human but Holy Spirit is not a human so Holy Spirit cannot preach people as Jesus do but Muhammed did.

And that’s what happens when one doesn’t complete verses. John 16: 14-15 shows that Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit.

MJ

 

[arthra]

I really don’t know why but some Muslims insist that the Advocate or the Comforter is their prophet.

Why is this?:

How many Muslims believe this and if they do, and what makes them so sure?

MJ

There’s an interesting note by A. Guillaume in The Life of Muhammad, A translation of ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah Oxford University Press on p. 104 referring to the Palestinian Syriac Lectionary…for the word “Comforter” following the Aramaic Hebrew as contrasted with the Greek 'Paraclete"… the word “Menahhemana” (God bless and preserve him!) is used…Muhammad means praiseworthy and is believed to be related… Of course the Qur’an uses the name Ahmad…

The wikipedia has:

Ahmad comes from the Arabic triconsonantal root of Ḥ-M-D, meaning “highly praised”, which in turn implies “one who constantly thanks God”, the same root as the name Muhammad, for example.

In Surih As-Saff (surih 61:6) the name “Ahmad” appears:

And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.

…

The last words of the verse also prophesies His rejection…

 

[MartinJordan]

There’s an interesting note by A. Guillaume in The Life of Muhammad, A translation of ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah Oxford University Press on p. 104 referring to the Palestinian Syriac Lectionary…for the word “Comforter” following the Aramaic Hebrew as contrasted with the Greek 'Paraclete"… the word “Menahhemana” (God bless and preserve him!) is used…Muhammad means praiseworthy and is believed to be related… Of course the Qur’an uses the name Ahmad…

The wikipedia has:

Ahmad comes from the Arabic triconsonantal root of Ḥ-M-D, meaning “highly praised”, which in turn implies “one who constantly thanks God”, the same root as the name Muhammad, for example.

In Surih As-Saff (surih 61:6) the name “Ahmad” appears:

And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.

…

The last words of the verse also prophesies His rejection…

Jesus spoke Aramaic. So the above doesn’t follow as much as ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul seems to not have put into consideration. Jesus clearly indicates the Comforter as the Spirit of Truth who comes from the Father, and all “that belongs to the Father is mine”

MJ

 

[mamlukman]

Here’s a question for our Muslim and Baha’i friends:

Jesus was a prophet, but 2nd to Muhammad. According to Islam, God saved Jesus from death on the cross and took him to Heaven.

Muhammad is supposed to be the greatest prophet of God in Islam. But God let him die, presumably a painful death of slow poisoning.

Why would God save Jesus from death, but not Muhammad? Does this make any sense?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

It is the only verse false christs or false prophets can appeal to seem legitimate. Be it Montanus, Muhammad or the Bahai prophet. They use it only to appeal to an authority already accepted but have to distort it in the process.

 

[Servant19]

Here’s a question for our Muslim and Baha’i friends:

Jesus was a prophet, but 2nd to Muhammad. According to Islam, God saved Jesus from death on the cross and took him to Heaven.

Muhammad is supposed to be the greatest prophet of God in Islam. But God let him die, presumably a painful death of slow poisoning.

Why would God save Jesus from death, but not Muhammad? Does this make any sense?

There are two perspectives to consider when answering your question.

1. Muhammad and Jesus are the same in station, only their Revelations differ. Muhammad’s is relevant to a more advanced evolution of society that is all.
   Muhammad himself said He was “like unto Moses”
   thespiritofislam.com/mohammed-jesus/31-is-mohammed-like-moses.html
2. Muhammad is not dead at all.

.

 

[Matthew_Light]

Here’s a question for our Muslim and Baha’i friends:

Jesus was a prophet, but 2nd to Muhammad.

Which Qur’an verse are you citing?

According to Islam, God saved Jesus from death on the cross and took him to Heaven.

The Qur’an doesn’t actually say what you just wrote.

Muhammad is supposed to be the greatest prophet of God in Islam. But God let him die, presumably a painful death of slow poisoning.

The only place I’ve read the “poisoning” conjecture is anti-Muslim polemic sites.

Why would God save Jesus from death, but not Muhammad? Does this make any sense?

All Baha’is and some Muslims accept that Jesus was crucified.

 

[arthra]

Here’s a question for our Muslim and Baha’i friends:

Jesus was a prophet, but 2nd to Muhammad. According to Islam, God saved Jesus from death on the cross and took him to Heaven.

Muhammad is supposed to be the greatest prophet of God in Islam. But God let him die, presumably a painful death of slow poisoning.

Why would God save Jesus from death, but not Muhammad? Does this make any sense?

Thanks for the question Mamlukman!

I believe there is a strong belief among Baha’is that the Manifestations of God such as Jesus, Muhammad are spiritually the same… but Their missions differed. In the Qur’an there is a verse that suggests this found in the second Surih (Al Baqara) ayah 285:

The Messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and the believers; each one believes in God and His angels, and in His Books and His Messengers; we make no division between any one of His Messengers. They say, 'We hear, and obey. Our Lord, grant us Thy forgiveness; unto Thee is the homecoming.'

Many take the crucifixion of Jesus as a case where although His body was crucified His Spirit could not be crucified or killed… They thought they had killed the Messiah but He ascended and Allah took Him to Himself…

See Qur’an 4:157-158

**And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure…

Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-**

Jesus was not spared being humiliated and tortured… The belief in Jesus resurrection and ascension was a spiritual event.

Regarding the passing of Prophet Muhammad:

**Muhammad is no more than a Messenger: many were the Messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve him) with gratitude.
**
(The Qur’an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 3:144)

 

[MartinJordan]

Here’s a question for our Muslim and Baha’i friends:

Jesus was a prophet, but 2nd to Muhammad. According to Islam, God saved Jesus from death on the cross and took him to Heaven.

Muhammad is supposed to be the greatest prophet of God in Islam. But God let him die, presumably a painful death of slow poisoning.

Why would God save Jesus from death, but not Muhammad? Does this make any sense?

Since you are new I have to tell you there are other threads that deal with your question or similarly. Otherwise kindly start another thread.

MJ

 

[fasolislithuan]

Well, it’s pretty clear the answer to this thread: Muslims insist that the Advocate or the Comforter is their prophet because they’ve been deceptively taught in their tradition this false claim. Many muslims are not guilty of this error of ignorance because they don’t know that** the source** (the Bible) says about the Paraclete (Holy Spirit).

There are no more logical reasons. It has been asked to muslims that they give us evidences in the Bible to support such a belief but the’ve only given us confused interpretations based in external and anachronic sources (as Qu’ram). The Bible is crystalline, clear and conclusive:

1st) The Paraclite is identified as the Holy Spirit (not as a future prophet Muhammed, Baha’ullah, etc…): *“but the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.” *(John 14,26).

2nd) The Holy Spirit cannot be Gabriel (like Islam claims): " The angel replied, 'In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the House of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary" …] (Luke 1:26-27) and "The angel (Gabriel) answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will cover you with its shadow" (Luke 1:35).

They’ll need to refute this with the Bible if they want their absurd claims are seriously considered.

 

[Padster]

The Holy Spirit is the most incredible experience anyone can have. It will put you at peace with the world and make life an absolute joy to live for a short while. So if Muslims say that Mohammed is their Comforter, is it not possible that they are really referring to the Holy Spirit because it was inside him at the time?

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[MartinJordan]

The Holy Spirit is the most incredible experience anyone can have. It will put you at peace with the world and make life an absolute joy to live for a short while. So if Muslims say that Mohammed is their Comforter, is it not possible that they are really referring to the Holy Spirit because it was inside him at the time?

Best wishes,
Padster

It is possible i suppose in a sentimental point of view. But unlikely as the Holy Spirit is through Jesus. Jesus is only man for Islam so it isn’t consistent.

MJ