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sedonaman
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Muhammad married at the age of 25 to a widow who was 40 years old. Did he marry her for her money instead of marrying someone his own age?
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empurpledsoul
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This is what your religion has errantly taught you and the only way you can accept it is to **ignore Jesus ** own words, something Islam does quite well due to the ignorance of it’s supposed prophet to the truth in Christ.
Matthew 28:18-20 (King James Version)
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus commanded all believers to teach his word to all nations, baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost and to teach them to observe all of his commandments, proclaiming His absolute power and authority over heaven and earth.
I guess Muhammad’s Allah forgot this part.
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Verisimilitude
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Yes, Mohammed did many other things such as marry his adopted son’s wife. This was against traditional Arab culture before Islam and only after a revelation from god allah did it become ‘good’ for him. Adoption in the Mohammedan cultue ever since has little to no meaning or worth because of it. This is in your Quran, and hadith put it into context.
When his young child wife went missing during a war party and found later with a soldier, only a revelation from god allah cleared her of adultery and saving her from the punishment Mohammed enforced on others. This is in your Quran, and hadith put it into context.
Yes, the only sinless man. What sin is Jesus guilty of? How many times did Jesus claim something special for Himself like Mohammed did; making what is sinful for others good for Himself?
Why leave the private life of Mohammed alone? You say not to use hadith to explain the private life of Mohammed; only use the Quran. I have done so. Only use the New Testament to discuss Jesus private life.
Jesus performed many miracles that testify to His Word, Mohammed performed many crimes that testify to his word. Mohammed is the opposite of Jesus.
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josie_L
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It defies all reasoning to believe this man.
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josie_L
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Hi Planten, I am not trying to deliberately hurt you with my responses, but you need to understand that the things that Mohammed did do not speak well about the holiness which is attributed to him by Muslims. Do you not understand why we as Christians bring this up? Never will I believe he was the holiest of men, and you shouldn’t either.
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algebra
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If you attack anything, we open ourselves up to attack from it.
Why? because all beings are programmed for self preservation/ perpetuation.
Its a universal law - do not do to other beings, what you would not have done to you.
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qui_est_ce
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Whether or not Mohammed’s behavior is Islamic is the topic of this thread. You may start a new thread if you wish to discuss another subject.
I see your good wishes:
I welcome any credible source of private life of Jesus. Just as we have been using Islamic sourced to discuss Mohammed, I ask you to use Christian sources to discuss Jesus.
Jesus is the son of God. He is sinless. He died to save us from our sin. He was made flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary. Mary remained a virgin her entire life.
The early Church Fathers, who are NOT found in the Bible, write about this. The martyrs and saints attest this. Do you think St. Lawrence allowed himself to be roasted alive for a lie?
St Ignatius of Antioch was martyred in Flavian amphitheater in 98 AD. He was ripped apart by wild beasts. St Ignatius was a discible of the Apostle John.
St Ignatius wrote:*
Chapter 7. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that you should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.
Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid. *
This is what we Catholics still believe and practice today. We make no excuses. We welcome ALL inquiry. We are not afraid of the Truth. We will die (but not kill) for Truth.
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planten
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** josie, Muhammad did not do that. he did not do anything bad. Some one has written some thing. But you should not believe all that. That should be easy for you. Because we do not question you about the unusual birth of jesus and the unusual life of Jesus. The thirty (30) years of unknown life of Jesus, what he had been doing?. So you should not enter into any bad discussion about Muhammad please. I had the chance to see the book Da Vinci Code and to see that film too. It appeared to be quite a good research.
But I am sure no christian would like to accept that as true. Why is that? If you believe things about Muhammad then believe about Jesus too. What do you say please? Don’t have one way traffic.**
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tomarin
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But only in the Erick von Dannekin Institute of Higher Studies.
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swplan76
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Islam is a very interesting religion. Mohammed rose to power in a way that is very unlike Jesus. Jesus had supernatural power that was a blessing to the people around Him, but did not take hold of any political power that might have been available to Him. Mohammed took hold of every opportunity to gain political control. As soon as was possible Mohammed found himself to be the leader of a military that murdered Jews in the hundreds (ethnic cleansing).
The Qur’an allows polygamy for up to 4 wives if the man can treat them equally. There is a loop hole that allows for a man to increase this number by having sex with his slave girls (I don’t know anything about the age these girls should be according to Islam).
I think it is interesting that the Qur’an encourages slavery and rape - do slave girls want to be slaves? - would slave girls want to have sex with a man who has taken them captive in war, or purchased them. Slaves want to be free - by giving Muslim men authority to have sex with their slave girls the Qur’an is also giving them authority to force sex upon the unwilling captives in their possession - we call that rape. The Qur’an is a ‘beautiful book about peace’
The Qur’an allows polygamy for up to 4 wives if the man can treat them equally. There is a loop hole that allows for a man to increase this number by having sex with his slave girls (I don’t know anything about the age these girls should be according to Islam).
I think it is interesting that the Qur’an encourages slavery and rape - do slave girls want to be slaves? - would slave girls want to have sex with a man who has taken them captive in war, or purchased them. Slaves want to be free - by giving Muslim men authority to have sex with their slave girls the Qur’an is also giving them authority to force sex upon the unwilling captives in their possession - we call that rape. The Qur’an is a ‘beautiful book about peace’
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sedonaman
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sedonaman
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Haven’t you already embarrassed yourself enough about The Da Vinci Code by saying it was written by Leonardo Da Vinci?
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planten
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** sedonaman, the research work is attributed to Leonardo da vinci. The book was written by some fellow named Brown.
It is immaterial. Since you pick odd things from man made books against our prophet then any man made thing may be useful to th Muslims too. You cannot complain. I hope you understand.
Otherwise our (Muslims) understanding and love of Jesus (and his mother) is thousand times more proper, realistic and greater than what you people have for Jesus**.
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conflicted1
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:thumbsup:
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conflicted1
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I hope to God you had your tongue planted firmly in your cheek when you typed that.
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conflicted1
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Why are we even discussing the age of puberty to determine if a girl is old enough to have a sexual relationship with an adult male?
My 10 year old niece has started puberty. She is in no way psychologically or emotionally old enough to have a relationship with an adult male or even a pubescent male.
I will personally cut the throat of any psycho-sicko who would suggest that because “in mohammed’s time it was acceptable so she is old enough because she has started puberty.”
To think that God, at any time in history, deemed it acceptable for little girls to have sexual relationships with adult males is beyond insane. If God did indeed say it was okay for little girls to be sexually abused by adult males then I wholeheartedly reject God.
Really, I am beyond disgusted that ANY sane, rational, empathic, clear-thinking human being can even entertain that notion that menstruation marks the time that a child, a little girl, at any time in history, can be raped by adult males with the blessing of God. Maybe it’s cultural thinking, but it does not excuse WESTERNERS who convert to that cult of murderers and rapists.
My neighbour’s eight year old son looks pretty hot and he’s getting hair under his arms so he’s at the age of puberty. I think I will marry him and wait until he’s nine to consummate the marriage. Ya think allah’s cool with that? He was cool with it for mo…
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swplan76
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I hear you on the utter disgust at the idea that Mohammed’s behavior with his 9 year old ‘wife’ might have been appropriate because she had started puberty. 100 years ago in England males didn’t start puberty until they were 17 (on average) - I think the age for girls was between 13-15, though I really don’t remember for certain. This is attributed to diet. I don’t imagine that girls were entering puberty earlier in Mohammed’s time.
One point that can be made is that Aisha was not considered a valuable, or sacred member of the community - mostly because she was female. Women were treated like animals to be managed by their husbands - Islam generally thinks of women this way - this is evident in the Qur’an and in most Muslim communities today.
This is very disturbing, but just because we become outraged by something, does that give us excuses to behave like the very people we have a problem with? Its like saying, “I’m trying to be like Jesus except when its inconvenient and I can flip the script because God forgives.” Saying things like " I will personally cut the throat of anyone who…" this doesn’t help anyone - all it does is make Christians look ridiculous. The Bible leaves no room for the behavior you are suggesting - One major difference between Islam and Christianity is that Jesus says that we should “turn the other cheek” and “love your enemy” where as the Qur’an tells Muslims to be ever ready, weapon near by, to kill or use the threat of death in order to get people to convert. Christianity and Islam are very different religions - leave the ridiculous violent attitudes to Islam and model yourself after the love God has for all people everywhere.
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conflicted1
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I never claimed to be Christian.
It is people like me who will stop these muslim maniacs from making your country islamic. I appreciate true Christians who can and do “turn the other cheek” but I am not Christian and I will not sit idly by and let these sick, sick people harm in any way my family and loved ones.
Will you turn the other cheek if some mohammedan demands that you turn over your 10 year old daughter because allah showed her to him in a dream?
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empurpledsoul
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Turning the other cheek is a teaching that will lead the one who plants it to understand that there are more powerful ways to deal with conflict than violence.
The question you ask is one that has many actions one can take to avoid having to turn your daughter over and the odds are that would not happen anyhow. If I am not Muslim my daughter would not be subject to Islamic rules, even in an Islamic state, that much I know. I most certainly would not ‘turn her over’ but that does not mean I must strike the person in violence to ‘defend’ her. Underestimating the power of love is a universal disease on this planet, investing full faith only in the violence men can do with their hands is the path to destruction for humanity. It would be better, if the situation arose where violence became pressed upon us, to lay our human flesh down rather than to ‘fight’ to preserve it. We may instinctively fight without weapons, with our own hands, to save our own lives, like a person fights to stop from drowning, but this is a far cry from the ‘fighting’ that goes on daily, premeditated revenge, under the false believe that this is the only way and the ‘just’ way to deal with that which we call our ‘enemy’. We are then just like the one we seek to destroy. We are all one. If I lay my life down instead of using violence to destroy one I am threatened by, I will have it lifted up again with more power than one will ever know on the face of the earth. This earth is not eternity. We all die. How we choose to live will determine if in a moment we are threatened by another human’s evil, how we choose to respond. And a believer never doubts that God is the all powerful One who can bring any conclusion, including a change in heart, a moving away of the evil in front of us, and a different outcome than ever brought with violence.
I have lived it, I have used it in the face of pure evil and violence, I have watched the use of LOVE defuse the situation and turn stone hearts into melting weeping. It is not believing in this possibility that keeps humans on the war path with one another.
Most certainly though, Muhammad did not believe in Love at all, he was fully driven by the human ego that believes violence done with human hands is a way of ‘glorifying’ God. It does no such thing. Violence at the hands of humanity is not holy. Humans use God in their effort to make it holy, but it is not. It is fully and wickedly human. Always.
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sedonaman
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I guess the answer to my question is no, you did not embarrass yourself enough; now you claim it is a work of research. What a laugh.
You are not one to talk about man-made books. Islamic foundational texts are nothing but the works of men. For example, what is the real jihad, the jihad of inner, spiritual struggle or the jihad of war? In Bukhari (the Hadith) he repeatedly speaks of jihad – 97% of the jihad references are about war and 3% are about the inner struggle. So the statistical answer is that jihad is 97% war and 3% inner struggle. Is jihad war? Yes – 97%. Is jihad inner struggle? Yes – 3%. The Trilogy (Koran, Sira, and Hadith) is clear about Islamic doctrine. At least 75% of the Sira (life of Mohammed) is about jihad. About 67% of the Koran written in Mecca is about the unbelievers, or politics. Of the Koran of Medina, 51% is devoted to the unbelievers. Religion is the smallest part of Islamic foundational texts. Even Hell is political. There are 146 references to Hell in the Koran. Only 6% of those in Hell are there for moral failings – murder, theft, etc. The other 94% of the reasons for being in Hell are for the intellectual sin of disagreeing with Mohammed, a political crime, IOW, “treason.” Hence, Islamic Hell is a political prison for those who speak against Islam. [Ref: W. Warner, “The Study of Political Islam”]
Can such books be the work of a loving God? For Muslims to think that reveals Islam for what it is: self-delusion as a group effort.
As far as Jesus is concerned, he predicted that “false prophets shall arise and mislead many.” From the research above about Islamic texts, it is clear that Mohammed was just one of those false prophets.
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