Muslims recognize Jesus as the Mediator between man and God?

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Muslims recognize Jesus as the Mediator between man and God?

I saw this quote here from the Quran and I was wondering if it was correct. I do not own a copy of a Quran and I do not speak or read Arabic, so maybe one of our Muslim friends here can help. If this quote is correct is appears that Jesus is recognized in the Quran as the Mediator between man and God, a Christian belief. What does this mean? Is my interpretation incorrect? Are there other verses in the Quran, which “support” Christianity?
[3:53] “Our Lord, we have believed in what You have sent down, and we have followed the messenger; count us among the witnesses.”
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The Death of Jesus*
[3:54] They plotted and schemed, but so did GOD, and GOD is the best schemer.
[3:55] Thus, GOD said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.
[3:56] “As for those who disbelieve, I will commit them to painful retribution in this world, and in the Hereafter. They will have no helpers.”
[3:57] As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, He will fully recompense them. GOD does not love the unjust.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Muslims recognize Jesus as the Mediator between man and God?

I saw this quote here from the Quran and I was wondering if it was correct. I do not own a copy of a Quran and I do not speak or read Arabic, so maybe one of our Muslim friends here can help. If this quote is correct is appears that Jesus is recognized in the Quran as the Mediator between man and God, a Christian belief. What does this mean? Is my interpretation incorrect? Are there other verses in the Quran, which “support” Christianity?
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Hi Jimmy,

I have reviewed the translation and it seems pretty fair. I have read a lot of this translation that you’re reading, I think it makes it easy to read. But I think you should know that the person who translated it, and his organization at submission.org, are a minority of Muslims who have diverged from the orthodox teachings of Islam, most notably in claiming to reject the teachings of Muhammad. He also has a sort of numerology claim about the Qur’an which is really just kind of weird. I just wanted you to know that this group is not considered mainstream–and they removed two verses from the Qur’an.

That being said, I am not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that this passage calls Jesus a ‘mediator’ between man and God. (Not saying it’s wrong or right, I just don’t understand, sorry.)

It describes Jesus as being a messenger of God–which is confirmed in the Qur’an. The part about ‘terminating your life’ is not something I am familiar with, it’s more like “take you” as in that verse (3:55) the Qur’an describes that God took Jesus and caused him to ascend (to Paradise). This also appears elsewhere in the Qur’an, in 4:158. The previous verse (157) explains that Jesus was not crucified–so in that sense it disagrees with Christianity.

But Jesus is considered a special Messenger of God by Muslims, in whom it is required that they believe. However, Muslims consider it an “extreme” to actually worship Jesus.

I hope that answers your question… if not, please clarify and I will try to explain.
 
Simply put–no. There is no mediator between GOD and man in [orthodox] Islamic theology. A main reason for this is that Muslims do not see the need for a mediator. There is no doctrine of Original Sin or inerrant sinfulness (outside of temptation) and nothing that separates GOD from man. Of course, I am subject to the interpretation of those who actually practice Islam (and I am really being brief here), but from my studies, this was a key idea in Islam–no mediators. Now, I guess you could say that prophets are “mediators” of Allah’s message, but when it comes to prayers, etc., that is strictly to GOD. There is also no Communion of Saints as in Catholicism/Orthodoxy where we may seek the prayers of those in Heaven (although I know some Muslims do this–not orthodox, though). Hope this helps…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
Sister_Amy said:
Hi Jimmy,

I have reviewed the translation and it seems pretty fair. I have read a lot of this translation that you’re reading, I think it makes it easy to read. But I think you should know that the person who translated it, and his organization at submission.org, are a minority of Muslims who have diverged from the orthodox teachings of Islam, most notably in claiming to reject the teachings of Muhammad. He also has a sort of numerology claim about the Qur’an which is really just kind of weird. I just wanted you to know that this group is not considered mainstream–and they removed two verses from the Qur’an.

That being said, I am not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that this passage calls Jesus a ‘mediator’ between man and God. (Not saying it’s wrong or right, I just don’t understand, sorry.)

It describes Jesus as being a messenger of God–which is confirmed in the Qur’an. The part about ‘terminating your life’ is not something I am familiar with, it’s more like “take you” as in that verse (3:55) the Qur’an describes that God took Jesus and caused him to ascend (to Paradise). This also appears elsewhere in the Qur’an, in 4:158. The previous verse (157) explains that Jesus was not crucified–so in that sense it disagrees with Christianity.

But Jesus is considered a special Messenger of God by Muslims, in whom it is required that they believe. However, Muslims consider it an “extreme” to actually worship Jesus.

I hope that answers your question… if not, please clarify and I will try to explain.
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Which translation of the Qur’an does this site use? Also, what is the name of their sect (if you know)? I have about five different translations of the Qur’an, but I doubt any is this one.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
I think that the site (which is submission.org) uses the translation of the Qur’an by a man named Rashad Khalifa. I don’t want to delve into an argument against him personally (interesting factoid–my fiance’s parents had dinner with him once at their house.) He founded a movement or sect called Submitters, sometimes called Qur’anites and 19-ers. They are not very widely followed despite a significant web presence thanks to their website.

Your assessment above was correct about the Islamic teachings rejecting the idea of a mediator.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Hi Jimmy,

I have reviewed the translation and it seems pretty fair. I have read a lot of this translation that you’re reading, I think it makes it easy to read. But I think you should know that the person who translated it, and his organization at submission.org, are a minority of Muslims who have diverged from the orthodox teachings of Islam, most notably in claiming to reject the teachings of Muhammad. He also has a sort of numerology claim about the Qur’an which is really just kind of weird. I just wanted you to know that this group is not considered mainstream–and they removed two verses from the Qur’an.

That being said, I am not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that this passage calls Jesus a ‘mediator’ between man and God. (Not saying it’s wrong or right, I just don’t understand, sorry.)

It describes Jesus as being a messenger of God–which is confirmed in the Qur’an. The part about ‘terminating your life’ is not something I am familiar with, it’s more like “take you” as in that verse (3:55) the Qur’an describes that God took Jesus and caused him to ascend (to Paradise). This also appears elsewhere in the Qur’an, in 4:158. The previous verse (157) explains that Jesus was not crucified–so in that sense it disagrees with Christianity.

But Jesus is considered a special Messenger of God by Muslims, in whom it is required that they believe. However, Muslims consider it an “extreme” to actually worship Jesus.

I hope that answers your question… if not, please clarify and I will try to explain.
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Sister Amy,

Thank you.

Peace 🙂
 
The Quran says Jesus is Messiah and Messiah is top guy between man and God. A lot of Muslims don’t understand what the Messiah is though.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I think that the site (which is submission.org) uses the translation of the Qur’an by a man named Rashad Khalifa. I don’t want to delve into an argument against him personally (interesting factoid–my fiance’s parents had dinner with him once at their house.) He founded a movement or sect called Submitters, sometimes called Qur’anites and 19-ers. They are not very widely followed despite a significant web presence thanks to their website.

Your assessment above was correct about the Islamic teachings rejecting the idea of a mediator.
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The Qur’anis? They’re the ones who believe the Qur’an alone is authoritative and reject the Sunnah and Hadith as inferior/false, correct?
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi Sister Amy!

Would you kindly let us know who are these "submission.org " people? Which two verses the removed and for what?

Thanks
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What these people do is take the ayaat from the Qur’an out of their historical context, and out of their literary context–and ignore almost all hadith. They really only accept a few which they use to prove some weird and wacky points of their doctrine.

The founder of the movement created some bizarre mathematical formula which he claimed was a miracle of the Qur’an, using as a base the number 19. Allahu Alam if there’s any truth to that at all–from my perspective it just seems wacky. This happened in the last century (60’s or 70’s I think, maybe 80’s), a pretty recent development.

To make the Qur’an fit in with his mathematical jibberish, he claimed that the last two ayaat in Surat at-Tawba (ch. 9) were not supposed to be there. So they are omitted in his translation. He also pulls hadith out of context to support that conclusion, and then calls all the rest of the Muslims hypocrites who have distorted the Qur’an because they believe that Allah (swt) has preserved it and therefore it was preserved for 1400 years before this guy, without being distorted.

All this stuff is on that website, by the way, but I don’t want to link to it. A lot of it is really wacky, unfortunately, and conflicts with orthodox Islam in many, many ways.
 
inJESUS said:
doesn’t the Quran or hadith talk about Muhammad being a mediator?
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I am not familiar with the term ‘mediator’ ever being used in any english translations of either Qur’an or Hadith. Muslims do believe that Muhammad supplicated for them, asked forgiveness for them, and guidance for them. But he is just a man… a man who was inspired by God. (According to Islam.)

Perhaps if you have a reference, something you have in mind, I could explain better. I’m not familiar with him ever being called a mediator though. Sorry.
 
We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah’s leave. And if, when they had wronged themselves, **they had but come unto thee **and asked forgiveness of Allah, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found Allah Forgiving, Merciful. S. 4:64

Can’t Muslims just ask forgiveness of Allah without passing through Muhammad mediating the forgiveness of sins?
 
Sister_Amy said:
To make the Qur’an fit in with his mathematical jibberish, he claimed that the last two ayaat in Surat at-Tawba (ch. 9) were not supposed to be there. So they are omitted in his translation.
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Hi

It is not good on their part.

Thanks
 
inJESUS said:
We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah’s leave. And if, when they had wronged themselves, **they had but come unto thee **and asked forgiveness of Allah, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found Allah Forgiving, Merciful. S. 4:64
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That is a very strange interpretation I think you have of this verse. It applied to a certain group of people who were living at the time of Muhammad, who were told to go to the Prophet Muhammad and ask him to ask forgiveness for them for a particular reason, but they didn’t becaues they didn’t believe.
Can’t Muslims just ask forgiveness of Allah without passing through Muhammad mediating the forgiveness of sins?
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Of course they can. In fact, they are supposed to, and if they go through Muhammad it would be an act of shirk!!

Muhammad, peace be upon him, is dead. It is not possible for Muslims to go to Muhammad and ask him to pray for them. They always have and still do go direclty to Allah for forgiveness.
 
Sister_Amy said:
That is a very strange interpretation I think you have of this verse. It applied to a certain group of people who were living at the time of Muhammad, who were told to go to the Prophet Muhammad and ask him to ask forgiveness for them for a particular reason, but they didn’t becaues they didn’t believe.

Of course they can. In fact, they are supposed to, and if they go through Muhammad it would be an act of shirk!!

Muhammad, peace be upon him, is dead. It is not possible for Muslims to go to Muhammad and ask him to pray for them. They always have and still do go direclty to Allah for forgiveness.
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in fact it was not my interpretation. It was Ibn Kathir’s…it was not about people who did not go because they disbelieved but about people going specifically to Muhammad in order for Allah to forgive them. Am not sure you can read Arabic so please check it in english,
 
Well… I actually checked Ibn Kathir’s tafsir (an English translation of it, anyway) before I made that post… and it doesn’t say anything about people having to go through Muhammad for forgiveness, but it does say it’s talking about munafiqeen, which is what I was referring to.

Wallahu Ghafooran Raheem…

This verse obviously only makes sense when the people were around Muhammad, and he could make du’a for them, that is he could ask God’s forgiveness for them. That didn’t make him a mediator, though. Not anymore than if I ask my husband to pray for me as well, it makes him a mediator.

I think you’re imposing a Christian idea (this mediator thing) on Islam when really it’s not there.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Well… I actually checked Ibn Kathir’s tafsir (an English translation of it, anyway) before I made that post… and it doesn’t say anything about people having to go through Muhammad for forgiveness, but it does say it’s talking about munafiqeen, which is what I was referring to.

<If they (hypocrites), when they had been unjust to themselves,> directs the sinners and evildoers, when they commit errors and mistakes, to come to the Messenger, **so that they ask Allah for forgiveness IN HIS PRESENCE **and ask him to supplicate to Allah to forgive them. If they do this, Allah will forgive them and award them His mercy and pardon. This is why Allah said…

<they would have found Allah All-Forgiving (One Who forgives and accepts repentance), Most Merciful>. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir)

What do you call this? intercession?

If Muhammad is dead, he cannot hear you and pray for you?

When an Islamic marriage contact is done, why does the sheikh say : Ush-hidu Allaha wa ush-hidu Muhammad? ( i make God and Muhammad testify" if Muhammad is dead and has more role to do?
This verse obviously only makes sense when the people were around Muhammad
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