Muslims? Saved?

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OneForTruth said:
If the Pope preached the gospel properly and called all Muslims to repentance, this would be a political problem and would be splashed across the airwaves…I have not seen this happen yet. Maybe he is just being politically correct. I don’t find that we ought to be politically correct in the Bible. If He came out and preached the exclusivity of Christ…being the only way and that all others are on the wrong track, news would be made of it, and it would certainly cause uproar.

Acts 4:12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

ONLY THE ELECT ARE SAVED!
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He did and it did cause an uproar. Here is an Apostolic Exhortation, Ecclesia in Asia , calling for the evangelization of Asia (including the Middle East), including Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists. He quotes the very verse you do from Acts right at the beginning.

He also adds this:

"Although the Church gladly acknowledges whatever is true and holy in the religious traditions of Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam as a reflection of that truth which enlightens all people, this does not lessen her duty and resolve to proclaim without failing Jesus Christ who is ‘the way and the truth and the life’

The whole thing is filled with a proclamation of the saving truth. Here is an example of some of uproar:

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=20718
 
OneForTruth said:
If the Pope preached the gospel properly and called all Muslims to repentance, this would be a political problem and would be splashed across the airwaves…I have not seen this happen yet. Maybe he is just being politically correct. I don’t find that we ought to be politically correct in the Bible. If He came out and preached the exclusivity of Christ…being the only way and that all others are on the wrong track, news would be made of it, and it would certainly cause uproar.

Acts 4:12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
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ONLY THE ELECT ARE SAVED!**
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Last first…Calvinism is gross error. :rolleyes:

Moreover, I defy you to provide an example where the Pope has failed to preach Christ. You can’t do it because such an example does not exist except in some anti-Catholic rhetorical bunkum.

I suggest that you know what you’re talking about before making generalizations that are based on the propaganda that you have believed and not the actual facts of the real world.
 
Here is another document which does the same, Dominus Iesus. It was actually written by the current Pope, and promulgated by John Paul II which received major uproar and outrage.

The promulgation of Dominus Iesus was met, as Cardinal Ratzinger notes in Truth and Tolerance, with a “cry of outrage from modern society, but also from great non-Christian cultures such as India: This was said to be a document of intolerance and of a religious arrogance that should have no more place in the world of today.”

🙂
 
Linkowski said:
I don’t think so.
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Link,

If you prefer, we could go back to hardline approach which says that anyone who is not Catholic is lost…

Since we’re speaking of salvation, here’s a verse just for you:

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:15-16)

Notice there is no mention of “faith alone” here, Link. Jesus knows your deeds - they are the basis of His judgment about your “temperature”.

Now, time to stop your waffling and get back into the Church!

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
Linkowski,

Do you believe that God desires that all men be saved? If you do then you agree with scripture. If you also agree that Jesus died for the sins of all men then you also agree with scripture. Now if you agree with scripture on these two points you have to twist pretty hard not to appreciate the Church’s position on salvation for those such as Muslims that are outside the Church. Moreover, if you disagree with Church’s position on Muslims as articulated in the Catechism then you should also disagree with the notion that there is any possibility that there is salvation for non-Catholics. Somehow, I don’t think you’re ready to go that far.

Salvation is a gift and God extends it according to his infinite wisdom, mercy and love. We do not know the mechanism for salvation for those that are Muslim. We can only speculate that God gives them the grace to see and choose at the moment of their death, but we must in the end leave everything to God’s infinite mercy and love. No matter what the mechanism happens to be, it is all by way of the merits of Jesus passion, death, and resurrection. Unless we receive a divine revelation no one knows exactly who is and who is not saved.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Link,

If you prefer, we could go back to hardline approach which says that anyone who is not Catholic is lost…

Since we’re speaking of salvation, here’s a verse just for you:

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:15-16)

Notice there is no mention of “faith alone” here, Link. Jesus knows your deeds - they are the basis of His judgment about your “temperature”.

Now, time to stop your waffling and get back into the Church!

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
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The church at Laodicea was neither cold, openly rejecting Christ, nor hot, filled with spiritual zeal. Instead, its members were lukewarm, hypocrites professing to know Christ, but not truly belonging to Him (Matt. 7:21). I will vomit you out of My mouth. Just like the dirty, tepid water of Laodicea, these self-deceived hypocrites sickened Christ.

Revelation 3:17 NAS95 17 'Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
 
Has anyone read the book of Jonah lately? This conversation reminds me of Jonah’s beef with God. “You can’t be the God of the Ninevites, because you’re our God and our God alone!! And if your our God alone, then you can’t be their God too. Because if your their God too, then we’re not special anymore!!” But, much to Jonah’s dismay, God was the God of the Ninevites too. Much to many Christians’ dismay, Christ is Christ for the Muslims too. I think there’s a few Jonahs in this thread.

As has been pointed out previously, if you knew as much as you think you do about Pope Benedict, you would know that he in fact has been very controversial precicely because he has preached Christ as the one true way to God over and over again. And has repeatedly stressed the need for evangelization.

What the Church has not done since Vatican II is presume to limit God’s saving Grace to those of us who had the good fortune to be born into countries where you don’t get killed for being Christian. You really, really, ought to read Dominus Iesus if you really, really, want to understand what the Church teaches on this point.

But–then again–we’re not really interested in looking at the entire body of Benedict’s work are we? Nope. We really don’t care what the Church really teaches about Salvation, do we? Nope. What we want to do is find a snippet of dialouge from the Holy Father, or a limited quote from the Catechism that we can selectively quote to suit our ends, then—BAM. That’s all the fuel we need to go on a, “The Pope is Denying Christ” tirade.

Link, if your looking for an excuse to stay away from the Church, find a better one.
 
It is quite amusing when I hear people stating who God letting into heaven, setting the quotas, and making the limits. We know the general picture of who will be saved, but I laugh when people start getting specific. Don’t turn God into the US Citizen and Immigration Service, and most importantly, don’t presume to make His final judgments for Him.
 
OneForTruth said:
If the Pope preached the gospel properly and called all Muslims to repentance, this would be a political problem and would be splashed across the airwaves…I have not seen this happen yet. Maybe he is just being politically correct. I don’t find that we ought to be politically correct in the Bible. If He came out and preached the exclusivity of Christ…being the only way and that all others are on the wrong track, news would be made of it, and it would certainly cause uproar.

Acts 4:12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

ONLY THE ELECT ARE SAVED!
Click to expand...
Perhaps you ought to consider how the Pope’s approach mirrors that of the Apostle Paul who wrote:

19Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. (1 Corinthians 9:19-22)

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
OneForTruth said:
Acts 4:12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
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Newsflash! The Catholic Church knows, and teaches, that all salvation is through Jesus Christ. But the Church doesn’t have your limited and erroneous view of what that means.
 
I found it very interesting to hear that the Muslims believe in Mary as being completely sinless. I was at a Fr. Corapi talk recently, and he said that Islam will be converted to Christianity, thru the intercession of Mary.

edited for spelling
 
Thomas1997 said:
I found it very interesting to hear that the Muslims believe in Mary as being completely sinless. I was at a Fr. Corapi talk recently, and he said that Islam will be converted to Christianity, thru the intercession of Mary.

edited for spelling
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This was Fulton Sheen’s view too. Devotion to Our Lady of Fatima has brought many to the faith in the missions.
 
One of Our Lady’s titles is “Gate of Heaven”. She is a very familiar to Muslims and highly revered…Servant of God Archbishop Sheen and Fr. Corapi are most likely right. I’d be willing to bet when the Muslim s convert in big numbers, it will be through Our Lady.
 
HailMary said:
One of Our Lady’s titles is “Gate of Heaven”. She is a very familiar to Muslims and highly revered…Servant of God Archbishop Sheen and Fr. Corapi are most likely right. I’d be willing to bet when the Muslim s convert in big numbers, it will be through Our Lady.
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If Our Lady (of Guadalupe) can convert millions of pagans in the Americas, she can do the same for Muslims–ever notice Our Lady of Guadalupe is standing on a stone crescent?
 
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