Muslims true feelings?

[Contarini]

And the “evils” of the Crusades are largely exaggerated.

tfp.org/current-campaigns/2006/an-interview-with-professor-thomas-madden-dispelling-myths-about-the-crusades.html

Some of the points Madden makes are valid–it has been pretty well established, for instance, that many people involved in the Crusades gave up substantial wealth and power at home. Obviously medieval Islam was not “peaceful” any more than medieval Christianity was–the Seljuks were indeed engaged in aggression against the Byzantine Empire and the First Crusade was initially intended as a response to that aggression.

But both the questions and the answers avoid the real problems with the Crusades:

1. They didn’t actually fulfill the supposed purpose of helping the Byzantines. On the contrary, the Crusaders worked at cross purposes with the Byzantines and eventually sacked Constantinople. Madden whitewashes the Fourth Crusade, by the way–everything he says is true but it’s not a “myth” that the Venetians had every reason to want to weaken Constantinople and that they used the Crusaders’ financial obligations to them as a way of manipulating them into doing their dirty work for them. Pope Innocent condemned the sack for a good reason (though he ought to have followed through by reinstating the Emperor and the rightful Patriarch instead of trying to use the Crusaders’ evil actions for the “good” purpose of forcible reunion).
2. In the long term, the Crusades weakened the position of all Middle Eastern Christians, just as the Iraq War has done.
3. Similarly, the Crusades strengthened the more militant aspects of Islam, contributing to the development and hardening of jihad law.
4. The atrocities committed by the Crusaders may have been standard in medieval warfare, but that doesn’t make them OK for people supposedly serving Jesus.
5. The Crusades marked a demonic perversion of the Church’s efforts to make peace among Christians. The Pope fell into the trap of using European military zeal for what he saw as a holy purpose, fatally betraying the Church’s witness for peace (though with the best intentions).

Madden’s claim that the Crusades prevented Muslims from conquering Europe doesn’t make sense to me, if he’s talking about the seven traditional Crusades. Since he counts a much longer list of Crusades, his point is defensible, but misleading, since he gives the impression that the seven "traditional’ Crusades slowed down the Ottoman Empire (impossible, since that Empire didn’t yet exist). Islam was divided against itself during the twelfth and thirteenth centuries anyway.

Edwin

 

[captainrick]

I wonder how my Catholic friends would react if I snapped a wooden crucifix over my knee.

They would say “Hey, that’s not very nice!” They would certainly not behead you or beat you to death. Anyone with even moderate intelligence recognizes true barbarism, and not try to justify it

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

They would say “Hey, that’s not very nice!” They would certainly not behead you or beat you to death. Anyone with even moderate intelligence recognizes true barbarism, and not try to justify it

Somehow, I doubt “that’s not very nice,” would be the response, but that’s speculation. Then again, speculating is exactly what you’re doing as well.

 

[Milasol]

They would say “Hey, that’s not very nice!” They would certainly not behead you or beat you to death. Anyone with even moderate intelligence recognizes true barbarism, and not try to justify it

You’re 100% right.

Nothing worse than those who try and bring in the crusades, the inquisition, so-called nominal Christians committing a crime to justify these horrible events. What a joke!!

It’s not just ISIS but over 100 terrorist organizations spread across the world.
It is not Christians but Muslims.

There are children being beheaded and you want to bring in the crusades!!! Shame

 

[captainrick]

Somehow, I doubt “that’s not very nice,” would be the response, but that’s speculation. Then again, speculating is exactly what you’re doing as well.

Personally, I would just walk away. And yes, many of us here are speculating.

 

[virgo]

From July:

Took me all of 7 seconds to type “CAIR ISIS” into a search bar to find. I’ll leave you guys to your “Muslims are savages” echo chamber as there’s no point in trying to disabuse any of you of your bigotry, but I won’t let matter-of-fact statements go unchallenged.

I actually Googled the same phrase upon reading that original comment, Brandon Cal, and was relieved to see the same. They have made a strong statement, and I found that reassuring. Also, although this post may result in some bigoted views, I honestly want to know how Muslims feel about the insanity currently happening on a large scale all over the world. This isn’t just some minor headline; the hardliners seem to be infiltrating into African countries, Singapore, Malaysia, even into the UK and France.

Secondly, I’ve seen comments all over the web that bring in the Crusades and the Inquisition. Yeah, those were definitely bloody times perpetrated by Christians, and shame on them. But the “They started it!” argument doesn’t fly with me. Also, that was in the Dark Ages–are we seriously comparing current hardline Islamic practices with the Dark Ages? Oh, what a second–yes, we are. And for good reason. And that is why these headlines enrage me.

 

[virgo]

VeritasLuxMea and Contarini (Edwin), thanks for your knowledge and viewpoints. You’ve given me much food for thought. Much appreciated.