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Steven_John
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I didn’t you missed reading me (see quote). If you back read a couple of my posts you will also see the differences of here to there.
Peace and blessings
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Peace and blessings
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elwill
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by comparison of these verses and verses of quran , seems to me that two of them are talking about the same angele .
are you agree with the comment of spn82756 ?
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qwerk
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You are one to talk. You belong to what Muslims consider a heretical sect. Trying to tell me I have no belief at all and trying to not address any point like Jhareck has done seems quite a bit suspicious of you.
Bashing me doesn’t mean the point is any less of a point.
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spn82756
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No…they are not the same angel. Gabriel announced the conceiving of the Word made flesh. Mohammad’s angel denied Jesus as the Word made flesh.
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spn82756
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LOL…a heretical sect of heretics!!!
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elwill
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4-171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not “Three” - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
we didn’t deny that jesus is the word of God
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elwill
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regardless of his sect , he actually right in his objections
whe you proclaim that you know the relegion of islam , then your sources of knowledge should to be islamic one
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spn82756
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Well…then you know that according to the Gospel written by John…That the Word is from the beginning and that the Word is God. Congratulations!4-171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not “Three” - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
we didn’t deny that jesus is the word of God
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spn82756
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Not when the source originates from the Prince of Darkness.
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sedonaman
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elwill
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can i conclude that you agree now that the angele of the bible is the same one mentioned in quran . so that you changed the argument to what this concept " word of God" means according to John !!!
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elwill
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i don’t know what they used
they used thier agenda i think
if you suggesting that these site used the islamic sites , then give me directly these islamic site to find out my self what it says .
is thiere any problem with that ?
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spn82756
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Absolutely not. They are not the same. Gabriel of the bible was sent to proclaim the Word made flesh! GOD! Gabriel of the quran denied that. Only the evil one. The great deceiver has so much to gain from the rejection of Christ as the Son of God. The redeemer of the world.
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planten
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That is a strange sentence in John. There are many other such things in the bible. Consider:
What does it all mean???
Does it mean there was nothing else except a word??. That word was with God??. So God had nothing except one word??? Then that word which was with God became God?? How come??
We Muslims believe that Jesus was a word from Allah. It was just one of many other words of Allah. It was a message from Allah to Mary, passed to her through angel Gabriel, well before she even could think of any marriage. Do the christians believe that word made Mary pregnant as soon as it was sent to her?? then that would be quite wrong.
It was only a message well before any marriage or chance of marriage to Mary about the grant of a grown up son to her . It had nothing to do with any conception. The message was not for any baby boy. It was for a grown up son. And the message contained many good (great) things, news, about that son.
But people start attaching that message to the problem of conception or the birth of a child. Even though Mary is telling about how the son will be born. That is to prove her pious mind and pious life, and that she had not till then been betrothed or married.
Quran is describing all these things in beautiful detail. Quran is telling that son (Jesus) will not die in young age. He will grow up to be a good, great person. He will not die by any accident too. But he will live, grow up and will be chosen as a prophet of God. He will teach and preach the message to his people… All that is included in the word… Please understand.
There is a news (in the Quran) of breathing of spirit into Mary and also into Jesus. That breathing of spirit has nothing to do with conception. That breath is from the holy spirit (Gabriel) and that is meant to raise the spiritual status of the persons, Jesus and Mary. Not to make them pregnant. Spirit was breathed into Adam too. That was not to concieve a child.
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qwerk
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They are. The Quran, Hadith, Sira, Sharia laws. Then I also look to the behavior of Muslims since in their Quran it says that deception is good if it advances Islam.
But we have the same problem many do when referencing anything to show the problems in Islam, we are bashed. Some are threatened and an example of those people who are threatened (or killed) have been Ayan Hirsi Ali, and Theo Van Gogh was killed. Hirsi Ali is still threatened with her life as are many who speak up about Islam. Even though the behavior of Muslims show us to be correct. Muslims who are waging Jihad by their tongues are not changing anything in Islam but only bashing us or telling us that we are wrong.
Criticizing Islam is considered a crime of treason and therefore this is probably a reason why Muslims think we should not be criticizing Islam.
I would say get over it since in Islam it is ok to tell us what we believe in is trash and therefore we are unbelievers, or kufir. The worst of sinners and can be killed or forced to be dhimmi. We do not do that to you in our countries.
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qwerk
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Muslims tell us that Allah can do anything but when it comes to it in reality, they question it.
The Quran is not believed by anyone other than Muslims so why do you think we should believe in it? Just because you guys do? This is a slippery slope way of forcing Islam onto us.
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sedonaman
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Yes. You obviously didn’t read further than the first few paragraphs, at most. Why don’t you try reading it all first and explaining what’s wrong with its thesis instead of automatically assuming malevolent motives and impugning the author’s sources? If the author has less than objective motives, his conclusions will be in error, and a proper critique of his method and those conclusions will reveal that he is wrong and why.
But then again, I guess it’s a lot easier to throw the question back at me and badmouth the author than pick up the challenge and analyze what he wrote.
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sedonaman
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No, because Mohammed said so.
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qwerk
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Correct. And the Bible says that the one thing to be certain is that God will not lie to us.
“Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged.” Hebrews 6:17-18
We are told in the book of Titus that God will not lie to us:
“a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,” Titus 1:2
And quite often in Islamic texts we are told that either Allah is a ‘plotter and planner’, a deceiver. Or that Muhammad lied in order to get what he wanted, or to advance Islam. And Muhammed told his followers to lie if it benefitted them.
And to tie this back to Gabriel, God did not send Gabriel to Mary and tell her one thing or to mislead her and then to Muhammad with a different message.
And Gabriel was not a spirit that showed force or violence anywhere he is mentioned in the Bible, but Muhammad mentioned that this spirit squeezed him and frightened him. Now wouldn’t that be ironic that a young woman, Mary, was not frightened of this spirit but Muhammad, an old man, was? Mary was getting a message that she is going to bear a child in a time when being unmarried and pregnant would be then end of her while an old man was afraid who had nothing to lose?
The whole scenario of Muhammad and this force is suspect. Or the whole description of Allah is also suspect.
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sedonaman
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This is the first test of the validity of any “new” revelation, i.e., does it contradict what was previously revealed?
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