Muslims, what exactly do you believe?

[sedonaman]

sedonaman, I do not understand what you mean by your post. But I better present the correct translation of just two verses.That may help clear up things. See below:

** [6:37] وَ قَالُوْا لَوْلَا نُزِّلَ عَلَيْهِ اٰيَةٌ مِّنْ رَّبِّهٖ‌ؕ قُلْ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ قَادِرٌ عَلٰٓى اَنْ يُّنَزِّلَ اٰيَةً وَّلٰـكِنَّ اَكْثَرَهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُوْنَ‏

[6:37] And they say, ‘Why has not a Sign been sent down to him from his Lord?’ Say, ‘Surely, Allah has power to send down a Sign, but most of them do not know.’**

**[10:20] ‌وَيَقُوْلُوْنَ لَوْلَاۤ اُنْزِلَ عَلَيْهِ اٰيَةٌ مِّنْ رَّبِّهٖ‌ۚ فَقُلْ اِنَّمَا الْغَيْبُ لِلّٰهِ فَانتَظِرُوْا‌ ۚ اِنِّىْ مَعَكُمْ مِّنَ الْمُنْتَظِرِيْنَ‏

[10:20] And they say, ‘Why has not a Sign been sent down to him from his Lord?’ Say, ‘The unseen belongs only to Allah. So wait; I am with you among those who wait**.’

There is no wait if you will. It says, you wait and I wait too. Don’t hurry.

sedonaman, you are also trying to enter into a bad field and you are taking side with those who seeked a sign. Do you know that wicked people seek a sign?? And Jesus did not like that?? Please read your bibleNT. Jesus never talked in a gentle way, in the way that Muhammad was told to talk to people. Jesus used abusive words for those who seeked a sign. please note a big difference. I hope it is enough because I did not understand your post very well.

Ahhh. The old “the-only-valid-Koran-is-in-Arabic” argument. We shot that down so many times before; I’m not surprised you still use it. Besides, none of your post has anything to do with my point.

 

[Mosacked]

Perhaps it’s because much of the Koran seems to follow the same pattern: “If they say [_______ fill in unbeliever statement ], then say [_ fill in Koran scripted response ______], [followed by some supposed words of wisdom].”

For example:
They ask: ‘Why was no sign sent down to him from his Lord?’ Say: ‘God is well able to send down a sign.’ But most of them are ignorant men. (Koran, 6:36, 2nd Para. – 3rd Para.)

And they ask: ‘Why has no sign been sent down to him by his Lord?’ **Say: **'God alone has knowledge of what is hidden. Wait if you will: I too am waiting.’ (Koran, 10:20, 1st Para. – 2nd Para.)

The unbelievers ask: ‘Why has no sign been sent down to him by his Lord?’ But you are only to give warning. Every nation has its mentor. (Koran, 13:5, 4th Para.)

The unbelievers ask: ‘Why has no sign been sent down to him by his Lord?’ **Say: **'God leaves in error whom He will, and guides to Himself those who repent and have faith; whose hearts find comfort in the remembrance of God. Surely in the remembrance of God all hearts are comforted. Blessed are those who have faith and do good works; blissful is their end. (Koran, 13:25, 4th Para.)

There’s no signs because Muhammad could not do any. Its ZERO.

What islam is doing is like a man saying “I am Superman and all powerful”. And if you ask me to prove it, I tell you “Blessed are those who have faith in me cos blissful is their end.”. In reality, the guy’s only a creep.

• Jesus refused to perform miracles only to certain groups of people. He certainly performed miracles in public in many other instances in full view of many thousands of witnesses. At Jordan, at the Capernaum and in Galilee etc. Comparing a nutcase to a legitimate miracle worker is the work of the mentally handicapped.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

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[planten]

Ahhh. The old “the-only-valid-Koran-is-in-Arabic” argument. We shot that down so many times before; I’m not surprised you still use it. Besides, none of your post has anything to do with my point.

sedonaman, you had presented few verses of the Quran with some malafide intentions. You had given the false or bad translation. I only presented the correct and more accurate translation of same verses. I did not do anything from myself. I only removed the falsehood that you were trying to impose.

I had tried to remind you to keep away from seeking a sign business because Jesus was also against such things. Jesus abused those who tried to seel signs from him. But you just swallowed that and avoided to answer that. It shows your lack of respect for Jesus and your real ignorance about the bibleNT.

 

[spn82756]

sedonaman, you had presented few verses of the Quran with some malafide intentions. You had given the false or bad translation. I only presented the correct and more accurate translation of same verses. I did not do anything from myself. I only removed the falsehood that you were trying to impose.

I had tried to remind you to keep away from seeking a sign business because Jesus was also against such things. Jesus abused those who tried to seel signs from him. But you just swallowed that and avoided to answer that. It shows your lack of respect for Jesus and your real ignorance about the bibleNT.

planten…why? why? why…must you continuously repeat the same gibberish over and over again? The amazing thing in all threads is that you know more about the koran than anyone else and you know more about the Holy Bible than anyone else. It just doesn’t end. You call people names…tell them what they believe…slander Christianity on a Christian forum and then become upset when people present valid arguements against mohammad and islam.

 

[planten]

There’s no signs because Muhammad could not do any. Its ZERO.

What islam is doing is like a man saying “I am Superman and all powerful”. And if you ask me to prove it, I tell you “Blessed are those who have faith in me cos blissful is their end.”. In reality, the guy’s only a creep.

• Jesus refused to perform miracles only to certain groups of people. He certainly performed miracles in public in many other instances in full view of many thousands of witnesses. At Jordan, at the Capernaum and in Galilee etc. Comparing a nutcase to a legitimate miracle worker is the work of the mentally handicapped.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

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Mosacked, do not forget that people were seeking a sign from Jesus. If Jesus was showing them any sign then why they were demanding a sign from Jesus.

In reply, Jesus said, “The wicked generation is seeking a sign. No sign shall be shown unto them except the sign of the prophet Jonas…”

What does it all means?? It means that Jesus had never shown them any sign. When he agreed to show a sign, it was that of a not great prophet of God. And that sign of Jonas being alive all the time was not fulfilled. Because Jonas had not died in the belly of the fish. But what happened to Jesus?? I hope you will understand about the only sign that Jesus tried to show to people.

Jonas afte rcoming out of the belly of the fish, went back to his people (all people). But Jesus never went back to the Jews. It would have been good sign if Jesus had gone back to the elders of the Jews to show them that he was still alive and living. But he did not do that.

To me and some other Muslims, the sign was fulfilled. Jesus had promised to show a sign and it was 100% fulfilled by Jesus.

Perhaps it is not necessary for me to reply to Mosacked or any of that kind. Because it could hurt and annoy the other christian friends. I do not know what to do. Please note that here again,my post is addressed to Mosacked only.

 

[sedonaman]

sedonaman, you had presented few verses of the Quran with some malafide intentions. You had given the false or bad translation. I only presented the correct and more accurate translation of same verses. I did not do anything from myself. I only removed the falsehood that you were trying to impose.

I had tried to remind you to keep away from seeking a sign business because Jesus was also against such things. Jesus abused those who tried to seel signs from him. But you just swallowed that and avoided to answer that. It shows your lack of respect for Jesus and your real ignorance about the bibleNT.

Are you saying that much of the Koran does not follow the pattern: “If they say [_______ fill in unbeliever statement ], then say [_ fill in Koran scripted response ______], [followed by some supposed words of wisdom].” ?

 

[Mosacked]

Mosacked, do not forget that people were seeking a sign from Jesus. If Jesus was showing them any sign then why they were demanding a sign from Jesus.

In reply, Jesus said, “The wicked generation is seeking a sign. No sign shall be shown unto them except the sign of the prophet Jonas…”

What does it all means?? It means that Jesus had never shown them any sign. When he agreed to show a sign, it was that of a not great prophet of God. And that sign of Jonas being alive all the time was not fulfilled. Because Jonas had not died in the belly of the fish. But what happened to Jesus?? I hope you will understand about the only sign that Jesus tried to show to people.

Jonas afte rcoming out of the belly of the fish, went back to his people (all people). But Jesus never went back to the Jews. It would have been good sign if Jesus had gone back to the elders of the Jews to show them that he was still alive and living. But he did not do that.

To me and some other Muslims, the sign was fulfilled. Jesus had promised to show a sign and it was 100% fulfilled by Jesus.

Perhaps it is not necessary for me to reply to Mosacked or any of that kind. Because it could hurt and annoy the other christian friends. I do not know what to do. Please note that here again,my post is addressed to Mosacked only.

Firstly, for a man who says that it is okay to slaughter others in order to obtain peace (in a previous thread), you really have no right to speak as a human.

Secondly, changing words and then saying you believe in them is an act of a shameless creep or a total nutcase. Jesus said “No man goes to the Father except through me.”, and you jump on the bandwagon to say you believe that but also believe that they can also go through Moses etc. You seem oblivious or totally blind to the word - NO MAN written there.

Thirdly, we are talking about the ability to perform miracles. Which Jesus has already proven with His miracles performed in public. Your question on why He did not show Himself to EVERYONE is a question that can be answered separately.

What you have showed everyone here is that you are 1 - A really demented person who wants violence over peace, 2 - a man who does not understand simple english and 3 - one who goes out of whack with what is discussed when you are unable to answer the question.

You make the perfect candidate as follower for something as outrageous as your religion.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

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[spn82756]

Firstly, for a man who says that it is okay to slaughter others in order to obtain peace (in a previous thread), you really have no right to speak as a human.

Secondly, changing words and then saying you believe in them is an act of a shameless creep or a total nutcase. Jesus said “No man goes to the Father except through me.”, and you jump on the bandwagon to say you believe that but also believe that they can also go through Moses etc. You seem oblivious or totally blind to the word - NO MAN written there.

Thirdly, we are talking about the ability to perform miracles. Which Jesus has already proven with His miracles performed in public. Your question on why He did not show Himself to EVERYONE is a question that can be answered separately.

What you have showed everyone here is that you are 1 - A really demented person who wants violence over peace, 2 - a man who does not understand simple english and 3 - one who goes out of whack with what is discussed when you are unable to answer the question.

You make the perfect candidate as follower for something as outrageous as your religion.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

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LOL…planten has a hard time with consistency. What can I say?

If you use his scripture to prove him wrong…you have mal-intent. If he uses the bible incorrectly to try to prove us wrong…he’s just all knowing.

 

[planten]

LOL…planten has a hard time with consistency. What can I say?

If you use his scripture to prove him wrong…you have mal-intent. If he uses the bible incorrectly to try to prove us wrong…he’s just all knowing.

I did not do anything. I only asked you, if Jesus was showing miracles then why did the people demand a sign from him?? And why did Jesus abuse those who asked for sign?? And why did Jesus not try to show the only sign which he had promised to the evil generation?? That is all in your bible.

 

[spn82756]

I did not do anything. I only asked you, if Jesus was showing miracles then why did the people demand a sign from him?? And why did Jesus abuse those who asked for sign?? And why did Jesus not try to show the only sign which he had promised to the evil generation?? That is all in your bible.

planten…I’m trying to show patience. You use the evil koran to show that Jesus is not God. Then you twist the Bible to show that Jesus is not God.

I truly feel badly for you.

 

[sedonaman]

I did not do anything. I only asked you, if Jesus was showing miracles then why did the people demand a sign from him?? And why did Jesus abuse those who asked for sign?? And why did Jesus not try to show the only sign which he had promised to the evil generation?? That is all in your bible.

We are here to learn the answer to the topic question, not to answer questions unrelated to Islam. Stick to the subject, and you might start by answering my question about the pattern of the Koran [post #170].

 

[Mosacked]

I did not do anything. I only asked you, if Jesus was showing miracles then why did the people demand a sign from him?? And why did Jesus abuse those who asked for sign?? And why did Jesus not try to show the only sign which he had promised to the evil generation?? That is all in your bible.

Jesus performed many miracles IN PUBLIC as written in the Bible. The statement which you claim Jesus said was an instance when Jesus refused to perform any miracle for THOSE people at THAT location.

If a famous doctor is well known to be able to cure all cancer problems, but one day he decided that you who are stricken with cancer shall be left to die in it and he refuses to cure you, can you conveniently accuse him of being unable to cure cancer?

You may of course insist on it, but it only shows that you’re a sour grape.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

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[Steven_John]

Have we left the spirit of Br Arts question.

I say we as I am sure I too am guilty.

I ask of the spirit if Br Arts question as it poses “what do you believe” but we argue what we say you should believe as we do from the source.

If I ask what do you believe the Quran teaches, I should have no way of correcting you as it is not about what it says or what I believe it means but it is what you believe.

Example. I am not quoting this to challenge Br Mosacked post individually but it typifies my point.

If you say the Muslims are terrorists for following the Quran, they will say you have taken it out of contexts

The Muslim referred to in this statement does not believe the Quran is to make people terrorists.

In this case both the Muslim and I are both seeking to believe what G-d wants us to.

Both say G-d does not want for us to be terrorists.

I might interoperate the Quran that its source wants its readers to be terrorist.

Give the Muslim in this quote believes of the Quran what my G-d wants the Muslim has the G-d inspired interoperation of the Quran.

Even if I open open-mindedly try to see as they see and dont see who am I to say they are wrong given they have good fruit from it and I have the rotten fruit.

Are we for G-d and His truth or for our own being exulted above other sinners?

Should a better response not be like “wow i find it unbelievable that you get that from what we have read but i thank and praise G-d you see His truth and we are one in this point”

“I will be what I will be”, you have free will so choose who you see

 

[seraphime2008]

Mosacked, do not forget that people were seeking a sign from Jesus. If Jesus was showing them any sign then why they were demanding a sign from Jesus.

In reply, Jesus said, “The wicked generation is seeking a sign. No sign shall be shown unto them except the sign of the prophet Jonas…”

What does it all means?? It means that Jesus had never shown them any sign. When he agreed to show a sign, it was that of a not great prophet of God. And that sign of Jonas being alive all the time was not fulfilled. Because Jonas had not died in the belly of the fish. But what happened to Jesus?? I hope you will understand about the only sign that Jesus tried to show to people.

Jonas afte rcoming out of the belly of the fish, went back to his people (all people). But Jesus never went back to the Jews. It would have been good sign if Jesus had gone back to the elders of the Jews to show them that he was still alive and living. But he did not do that.

All sign has been and will be given to people who recognize the work of God, not to the ones who want to find guilt of the works/signs.
They had been given enough signs actually , if they can see it with faith in God and intention to grow, but since what they wanted was just to have acrobatic move fantastical sign to be able to accuse Jesus of possessing demon’s power, then why should Jesus fall into their agenda? Or why should Jesus return their demand?

Jonah came to the people whom God wanted him to warn so that they can repent. Jesus did came to people who had faith in Him and those were Jewish (reportedly more than 500 times!). Did the bible have to make report that Jesus have shown Himself to the elder? More importantly there were more people had been convinced that Jesus was and is still alive, and they were what we called as the early Christians, the eyewitness of what His live was.

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