Muslims, what say you about THIS Jesus?

[inJESUS]

This is a bit silly.

You wouldn’t find a single verse that says God can’t be an aircraft carrier either!!! God wouldnt be anything that Doesn’t fit to his nature of bieng God. which he clearly said that he isn’t a man.

 

[meedo]

you are starting from a twisted understanding. Jesus is God before coming as a human.

In other words, if God incarnates in a tree for exampl, are we worshipping a tree of God in the tree? same concept. We worship God, not a human.

The problem that the God that has incarnated already had a God ! and he kept refering to him . How can God refers to God and prays to him?

 

[inJESUS]

i personally don;t know what every Jew thought about, but i know that revelations took thousands of years. Your question is like why didn’t God say the year and name of the Messiah so that no confusion remains? the OT is full of prophecies and explanations, and we believe that God did reveal but fulfillment and understanding came in the NT, with Jewish followers as well.

Does it make any sense whatsoever to keep saying he is not a man , he doesnt change , and sudenly and specifically appears in the human form insinuating that he is God. ?

but you are not following what He revealed…He says He is not a man that He should lie, He did not say He cannot come to us as a man and the context isn’t about not being a man but about God not lying. We read about God coming as an angel in the OT yet no one says God is an angel.

John 20:17 “Jesus saith unto her, ‘Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, l ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.’”

why didn’t He say “our Father and our God”? think about it.

 

[meedo]

you still have to find me one reason why God cannot come to us as a man. You do believe He can do whatever He wants provided it does not contradict His nature right? for example, He cannot because a lying man because that is against His nature, but can’t He become a perfect man?

 

[meedo]

i personally don;t know what every Jew thought about, but i know that revelations took thousands of years. Your question is like why didn’t God say the year and name of the Messiah so that no confusion remains? the OT is full of prophecies and explanations, and we believe that God did reveal but fulfillment and understanding came in the NT, with Jewish followers as well.

, He did not say He cannot come to us as a man and the context isn’t about not being a man but about God not lying. We read about God coming as an angel in the OT yet no one says God is an angel.

why didn’t He say “our Father and our God”? think about it.

Can you please quote the verse in which God came as an angel?!

 

[inJESUS]

The problem that the God that has incarnated already had a God ! and he kept refering to him . How can God refers to God and prays to him?

because you forget that Jesus is a human as well but you do not realize that the relationship between Jesus and the Father is not like our relationship to the Father that is He differentiates between “my God and your God”, “my Father and your father”.

Our Father is our God, our creator, the one we ask for forgiveness. None of which applies to Jesus who is neither created, nor asked for forgivess but who forgave and will judge us and who has all the power and authority as equal as the Father because they are of the same essence, Light from Light.

 

[inJESUS]

my example about the tree was simply an example. If God wishes to come in whatever way He sees fit, we are still worshipping God.

and God does not incarnate in his creations. I cant keep getting you reasons of why not God would incarnate into a ‘’ perfect’’ cow ‘’ or a ‘‘perfect’’ lizard!!!

the incarnation as a man was for man. If He had a plan for other than man, it would be His own business. So who says God cannot incarnate as a man?

You believe God swears by his creation, don;t you? if creation is worthy to be sworn by by He who created it, what veto are you putting on God to come to you as a man? do you think you are so unworthy but a horse can be sworn by?

Jesus was imperfect, fealt pain , needed food , water , bathroom , etc…

this is not imperfection but human nature and God did not stop being God…you are talking as if God cannot do things and remain God, something no one will agree with.

why did God punish thise who worshiped the calv, couldnt God come in themost beautiful shape of a golden calv? , a piece of art? why couldnt God incarnate as Pharouh?

God wants people to worship Him in how He reveals Himself, not in how humans make Him out to be.

For the horses issue, aren’t they magnificent enough to swear by them? can we create one of them? God shows us his awe by swearing by his creatures which we can never ever create the like of . There is no issue here because he cannot worship his creatures because he cerated the. and the smallest of them till the largest of them are magnificent. We however should swear by creatures but only swear by God or his attributes as the ultimate thing to bind anything by.

so you swear by the Ultimate but the Ultimate swears by things He created? no Meedo, the Bible says no one is greater than God that is why He swore by HIMSELF and both OT and NT agree, the Quran differs and if it were the same God revealing both, it means God is saying in the Quran that creation is greater than Him, which means that corrupt men elevated God in rthe Bible more than Allah does in the Quran…so you gave me your interpretation of Allah swearing by horses, but actually God says He swears only by Himself.

angels are the creations of God. They are his servants and they do his bidding. They dont incarnate a humans or other things out of jest but because God commanded them and fashioned them in this ability and way for the functions he created for them.

fine, but if angels can do it, can’t God if He chooses so?

God doesnt incarnate to be his creatures because he didn’t create them imperfect in this life.

i don’t understand what you mean.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;4853528:

Can you please quote the verse in which God came as an angel?!

theophany is the manifestation of God in the Bible that is tangible to the human senses.

Exo 33:20 "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."

Gen 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

How did Jacob see God?

and check:
usccb.org/nab/bible/genesis/genesis18.htm

 

[inJESUS]

Am still waiting for one verse from the OT, NT or even the Quran saying that God CANNOT come to us as a human while still the God of this universe. Am not expecting answers about why God “will not” because no one is God to say what He wills and what He does not will to do but am expecting answers about God’s inability to do it.

 

[inJESUS]

If i were to play it safe, i would not worship Jesus. God doesnt confuse people and he would not put the salvation of people on the balance by him beating around the bush.

is God beating round the bush for not revealing Himself infront of all humans at the same time so that no one gets confused about His existence?

If you think the OT is like the Quran, you are deadly wrong. Google “the angel of the Lord” in the OT and read about “the Angel of the Lord” speaking as the LORD in the first person (e.g., Num 22:32) or where the Angel and the LORD are described interchangeably (e.g., Judg 6:11-14) or where the angel is said to forgive sins as God.

You might say that an angel is God’s representative, but that doen’t mean that this mysterious angel talks as if he were God, is adressed as God , is described interchangeably with God . So if God in the OT doesn’t want to “confuse” people, then it means the angel is not a mere angel according to your way of thinking.

 

[inJESUS]

Muslims don’t believe that Jesus was crucified. Who was on the cross is not our issue.

we all know that you do not have answers, you did not have for 1400 years but you can at least give your version of what might have happened for you and us to assess .

It was made to appear to them : if the sentence refers to Jesus and hence the “it” becomes “he was made to appear”, then someone made the one on the cross look like Jesus, and this one is Allah, and this is deceit.

If the sentence refers to the crucifixion per se, that there appeared to be a crucifixion, it means that Allah made people see a crucifixion that wasn’t happening, which is deceit.

You hate to discuss about “what appeared” could mean but we know that however you turn it, it involves deceit. If it was someone made to look like Jesus, it is deceit and if a crucifixion was created in humans’ eyes when nothing was happening, it is deceit.

 

[LutheranDK]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

So , the verses of today’s Bible which have similarity with Quran , we accept those as truth. Those verses go against the main teaching of Quran & all other Prophets , we reject them as false.

Although this is the view of the man on the street among muslims, most islamic scholars are all too aware of the theological problem islam is left with if this is true:

*“How can God let human beings corrupt His word? Since all that happens is God’s will, then if the Injil has become corrupt, that must ALSO be God’s will. But that would mean that God willed that His word should be corrupted, which cannot be the case.
Ergo: What happened was that the Christians misinterpreted the Injil, whether purposefully or not”
*

Now, this is also not a viable position, because the Gospels, individually and as a whole, claim the divinity of Christ unmistakably clear. That is also why JW needed their own corrupted translation of it, and the Mormons needed a corrupt addition to it (the BoM), in order for their theologies to make sense…

Pl. remember what Jesus (pbuh) taught you: My Father is greater than I. Bible, John 14:28

Before I answer this: Do you accept this verse as true, or is it to you also one of the “corrupted” verses?

 

[inJESUS]

Although this is the view of the man on the street among muslims, most islamic scholars are all too aware of the theological problem islam is left with if this is true:

you are talking with people who shout corruption yet do not know neither when, nor where, nor by who as if the Bible existed in one place.

Before I answer this: Do you accept this verse as true, or is it to you also one of the “corrupted” verses?

 

[Pax_Vobiscum_57]

Am still waiting for one verse from the OT, NT or even the Quran saying that God CANNOT come to us as a human while still the God of this universe. Am not expecting answers about why God “will not” because no one is God to say what He wills and what He does not will to do but am expecting answers about God’s inability to do it.

Don’t hold your breath. Not one Muslim posting here knows how to refute this.

 

[meedo]

Don’t hold your breath. Not one Muslim posting here knows how to refute this.

No sane muslim ( or a jew as far as i have heared from them themselves ) would reply to such a crazy post!!

Do you want Muslims and jews to prove to you that God cannot turn into a cow or a train or a cactus fruit?!

God does not turn into his creations and he never did. and the verses you quoted doesnt say God became an agel. They wre angels themselves and not God . or else your God now would be the father the son and the 3 angels!!! Ofcourse abraham was having a devine revelation rom God through angels but he didnt meet God in his living room!!! He explicitly said he doesnt change and that he isnt a man ( weather because he doesnt lie or not). Your God was a man , and changed from a mere word into a word in a flesh. Go Figure!

You are so brave really for battling God so hard . Good Luck , you will need it!!!

 

[Benjamin8o8]

No sane muslim ( or a jew as far as i have heared from them themselves ) would reply to such a crazy post!!

Do you want Muslims and jews to prove to you that God cannot turn into a cow or a train or a cactus fruit?!

God does not turn into his creations and he never did. and the verses you quoted doesnt say God became an agel. They wre angels themselves and not God . or else your God now would be the father the son and the 3 angels!!! Ofcourse abraham was having a devine revelation rom God through angels but he didnt meet God in his living room!!! He explicitly said he doesnt change and that he isnt a man ( weather because he doesnt lie or not). Your God was a man , and changed from a mere word into a word in a flesh. Go Figure!

You are so brave really for battling God so hard . Good Luck , you will need it!!!

I thought you guys believed in GOD THE ALMIGHTY not in God who can´t do something…

why are you limiting God and saying HE cant do or be something. God dosent change you are right, and He never did. When God manifested Himself down to a human being, God spoke THROUGH human nature while in the same time taking its form. If you ask me how can God do something like that, my answer to you would be- I don´t know, when Moses asked God “who are you” God replied to Him “I Am what I Am”. So why should I—whos just a sinner and nowhere close of being a prophet like Moses why should I question Gods power and will. Also when you say change, you do have to realize God NEVER changes.

If you look at a square and you tild it a bit, what do you get? A dimond. Did you change anything? Have you added or subtracted anything to the shape? NO…you just approached it with a different angle. All I can say is God works through mysterious ways, and we will NEVER be able to fully grasp the understanding of His divinity.

To get one more thing straight, its not you who has the right to ask how can God do this and that, but it is your duty to answer why dont you believe God can do this or that. This answer obviously traces back to Muhammad and his teachings which appeared 600 hundred years AFTER Jesus Christ died and was ressurected. So in order to make a legitimate debate, why dont you first answer us why wasn`t Islam practiced before Muhammad, and how did the laws of Islam get allegedly corrupted?

Now Meedo, you have been very kind here, and also somewhat consistent in replying questions unlike Muslim Woman and Sister Amy and others. So I please ask you not to ignore this topic and reply with an honest answer, if you can`t then I understand and I hope you start to really learn about the origin of Catholism and its teachings.

God Bless you my brother

 

[wina]

InJesus, I should give you:thumbsup: for not being tired explaning to muslims.
For me, I just can’t take it anymore how they don’t want to learn what we have tried to explain. For this time, I will leave this thread.
God bless all

 

[ralphinal]

God appeared in the burning bush to Moses.

God appeared in the whisper to Elija.

Why can God not become man?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Why can God not become man?

Man is mortal , God is immortal . Man needs to eat , drink , go to toilet , Man needs to sleep , God is above all these need. It’s very illogical that mortal men can kill their own Creator.

Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists.

Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him.

To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills.

His Kursee extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. (This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursee.)

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #255)

 

[planten]

because you forget that Jesus is a human as well but you do not realize that the relationship between Jesus and the Father is not like our relationship to the Father that is He differentiates between “my God and your God”, “my Father and your father”.

inJesus, the matter is simple. When Jesus says “My God and your God” it means there is One God who is the God of all, all men. He is the God of Jesus too. In these words, Jesus puts himself on the same footing as all mankind,

Our Father is our God, our creator, the one we ask for forgiveness. None of which applies to Jesus who is neither created, nor asked for forgivess but who forgave and will judge us and who has all the power and authority as equal as the Father because they are of the same essence, Light from Light.

**There is no question of forgiveness in these paras. Jesus said “My God and Your God.” that means that God is the God of Jesus and all others. The question can be about repentence which John the baptist and Jesus had been teaching but you people have forgotten that blessed lesson and replaced it all by the blood of Jesus. Don’t mind. That is my opinion.

**