Muslims, Why Qur'an=Word of God?

[LivingWaters7]

So I’ve begun reading an English translation of the Qur’an (the M.A.S Abdel Haleem Oxford University Press translation). While I do find it interesting (and it’s helpful to have a copy of the Qur’an on hand to go back to the controversial sections to see if the context still keeps them controversial), I can’t help but compare the Qur’an and its origins to that of the Book of Mormon. It seems that in both cases (and I do have to read more about the origins of the Qur’an), a man claimed to receive a text from/through an angel, and revealed it through the gift and power of God. In both cases, there is a claim of restoring truth that was lost. Christians would probably see this as “more of the same”, where throughout history there have always been people claiming to have been visited by God or angels, purporting to have and reveal the truth that was lost, frequently without any witnesses to such revelatory experiences.

So, my question is, how do you know that the Qur’an is the word of God? Is it based only on the testimony of a single man, Muhammad?

Also, I’m curious as to why Muslims would accept Jesus as a prophet, born of the virgin Mary, etc. Do you believe that Jesus taught Islam? If so, why? Did not Jesus teach that He is the way, going to the Father through Him, etc?

 

[drac16]

It’s very good that you’ve decided to read it. Since there are a lot of things to respond to, I’ll address them one by one, inshAllah.

“I can’t help but compare the Qur’an and its origins to that of the Book of Mormon. It seems that in both cases (and I do have to read more about the origins of the Qur’an), a man claimed to receive a text from/through an angel, and revealed it through the gift and power of God.”

Really? I think it’s a night-and-day difference. Sure, Joseph Smith and Muhammad [peace be upon him] both claimed to have had an encounter with an angel, but beyond that, the character, the ministries and the teachings between these two men are very different. Joseph Smith is well known to have been convicted of fraud in 1826 (for claiming to be able to find treasure with a special rock). Muhammad [peace be upon him] however, was known as al-Amin, which means The trustworthy, even by those who hated him.

Yes, even those who hated him and wished to kill him trusted him with their goods. The Quraysh knew of no other businessman, or any other man in general, who was as honest/trustworthy as Muhammad. You can read about this in Martin Lings’ book called 'Muhammad: His Life Based On The Earliest Sources’ on pages, 34, 40, 41 and 120. You can find this fact in a number of other areas as well, but Martin Lings’ biography of the prophet is highly regarded as one of the best and most accurate biographies [of the prophet] in the english language. I reccomend it highly.

Moreover, the circumstances under which revelation came to Muhammad [peace be upon him] and Joseph Smith were different. Joseph Smith translated from a set of golden plates, from a language called “reformed Egyptian”, a language of which there is absolutely no evidence of in ancient history of the Americas or in archaelogy. Muhammad [peace be upon him], recieved revelation by hearing the voice of Gabriel; and Muhammad would repeat whatever Gabriel had recited to him. This is a method that God also used to give revelation to numerous prophets throughout history. You’ll often see, in the Old Testament, God saying to a prophet, “go to my people and say ‘yada yada yada’ or something”. The Qur’anic verses come from an outside source, so that’s why you’ll often come across verses that say “warn them about such-and-such” or “say this or that”.

“In both cases, there is a claim of restoring truth that was lost.”

No, Joseph Smith claimed to carry a truth that had been lost-- Muhammad [peace be upon him] did not. In fact, the Qur’an notes that there were jews and christians living at the time of the prophet whom Allah considered to be righteous. Moreover, in the story of the Companions of The Cave, which is narrated in surah 18 of the Qur’an, Allah calls these youths believers. These youths lived between the time of Jesus and Muhammad, so clearly, the message had not been lost.

The truths of Islam have been there since the birth of Adam, it’s just that, people would often distort the message. Why do you think so many prophets were sent by God throughout history? it’s not because every single one of them were introducing new things-- it’s because man distorted Islam over time, so God sent prophets to guide people back to the Truth.

“So, my question is, how do you know that the Qur’an is the word of God? Is it based only on the testimony of a single man, Muhammad?”

Why would I believe something based on one testimony? let alone a message as radical as complete surrender to the one God? You really think I would dedicate my life to following a religion just because one person said that this religion is right? come on now, don’t take me for an idiot. There are a lot of ways one can come to know that the Qur’an is true; too many to list. For me, it was the fact that it presented God in a rational way, which I had never seen [and still have not seen] in any other faith. The teaching of Tawheed, which says that God is completely dissimilar from His creation, is absolutely logical.

The Qur’an contains historical and scientific miracles. It describes destroyed nations, nations which have only been uncovered recently, and gives specific details on what these nations were like, what made them go extinct, etc. One great source is the book ‘Perished Nations’ by Harun Yahya; check it out. But, for something more tangible, here’s irrefutable proof of a miracle-- so irrefutable, even a secular source, National Geographic acknowledges it: youtube.com/watch?v=Y6jL1Y1G-44&list=FLvcLQQW0d8BqELRMKp38LRA&index=26

Check the links in the video description as well.

 

[drac16]

Ok, I’m almost done. I just have to address that last question you raised.

“Also, I’m curious as to why Muslims would accept Jesus as a prophet, born of the virgin Mary, etc. Do you believe that Jesus taught Islam? If so, why? Did not Jesus teach that He is the way, going to the Father through Him, etc?”

Well, we believe he was a prophet and was born of a virgin because the Qur’an says so.

Yes, I believe that Jesus Christ [peace be upon him] taught Islam. If you read the oldest of the four gospels, which is the gospel of Mark, you’ll see a lot of parallels between it and Muhammad’s message. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jesus [peace be upon him] said something to the effect that he was the way to God, in fact, it’s very likely that he did. Every prophet would have said as much. All would have said that following them is to indirectly follow God.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Drac, how do you get over the fact that your "prophet’:

1: Ordered the murder of one of his friends
2: Slept with whomever he felt like
3: slept with a nine year old child
4: Engaged in raids against innocent caravans
(Note: these being just a few of the examples I chose to give)

How do you reconcile these fact with your concept of a good human being, and more importantly, how can you say that any man truly of God would engage in such actions? Especially one whom you purport to be the perfect human.

Further, how can you claim that Jesus Christ taught Islam when he explicitly denounced actions such as these multiple times? Especially when even God himself called Christ his son. (Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22, Matt. 17:5… and many others) Why would God send his son, have his son tell us that God himself will protect the Church he started, and then up and decide to send another prophet to start an entirely different Church from the one He Himself started?

One last thing. You talk about the Quran presenting God in a rational light where no other religion had done so.

What, exactly, is irrational about either the Jewish or Catholic representation of God?

 

[Trebor135]

For me, it was the fact that it presented God in a rational way, which I had never seen [and still have not seen] in any other faith. The teaching of Tawheed, which says that God is completely dissimilar from His creation, is absolutely logical.

But “simplicity” (or “seeming reasonable”) and “truth” are not synonymous at all.

 

[doormouse73]

im sorry i stopped reading any more once i got to this in Drac 16 post…

Joseph Smith is well known to have been convicted of fraud in 1826 (for claiming to be able to find treasure with a special rock).

isnt that what mohamed kept in the kaba,a black rock thank gives special powers…

the rest ,well

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

Also a Moslem I know told me that apart from not believing that Jesus was Crucified but rather a look alike was crucified instead, how would that be recorded by Moslems and only Moslems as your religion did not come about until the 7th Century and by violence, Muhammad attacked traders and told them die or else. Plus his last wife was a child whom he had sex with at the age of 9 plus he had 300 wives and concubines, and most men in Moslem countries marry children for sex for which a lot of them die as there womb is not probably formed to have children. You also say that “Jesus was the nephew of Moses” Muhammad could not read or write and had to rely on someone else to write things down, and hence Moses lived during the reign of Remises 11 in 1279 BC a long way of from the 7th century. God himself gave us the 10 Commandments one of things are Thou shall not kill, these are God’s word and yet you put Fatwa’s out on another human being in spite of God saying “Thou shall not kill” Muhammad was a vicious warlord who suffered from illusions of grandeur, no holy person, would have 300 wives and 300 concubines, put a tax on Christians who live in a Moslem Country unless they hated Christians as you say The people of the Book , you don’t think much of them do you, if you blow up there Churches’, kill Christian people, so that they live in your Moslem Countries.
Then think that your going to have sex with six /seven virgins if you do a evil act against Christians. Again God has said which you pay no attention to "Love the Lord thy God, and your neighbour as yourself. Its all the Moslem Countries that are fighting, Egypt, Syria etc, Muhammad reminds me of the Thor the God of War, but a more updated version.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Also a Moslem I know told me that apart from not believing that Jesus was Crucified but rather a look alike was crucified instead, how would that be recorded by Moslems and only Moslems as your religion did not come about until the 7th Century and by violence, Muhammad attacked traders and told them die or else. Plus his last wife was a child whom he had sex with at the age of 9 plus he had 300 wives and concubines, and most men in Moslem countries marry children for sex for which a lot of them die as there womb is not probably formed to have children. You also say that “Jesus was the nephew of Moses” Muhammad could not read or write and had to rely on someone else to write things down, and hence Moses lived during the reign of Remises 11 in 1279 BC a long way of from the 7th century. God himself gave us the 10 Commandments one of things are Thou shall not kill, these are God’s word and yet you put Fatwa’s out on another human being in spite of God saying “Thou shall not kill” Muhammad was a vicious warlord who suffered from illusions of grandeur, no holy person, would have 300 wives and 300 concubines, put a tax on Christians who live in a Moslem Country unless they hated Christians as you say The people of the Book , you don’t think much of them do you, if you blow up there Churches’, kill Christian people, so that they live in your Moslem Countries.
Then think that your going to have sex with six /seven virgins if you do a evil act against Christians. Again God has said which you pay no attention to "Love the Lord thy God, and your neighbour as yourself. Its all the Moslem Countries that are fighting, Egypt, Syria etc, Muhammad reminds me of the Thor the God of War, but a more updated version.

Jesus would not have his followers hijack some airplanes, then drive them into a building containing thousands of innocent people, and killing them. Somehow that just doesn’t compute to being a “holy” man. Also causing the whole world to live in fear for the last 12 years because of that incident in 2001.

 

[Kanuckistani]

Jesus would not have his followers hijack some airplanes, then drive them into a building containing thousands of innocent people, and killing them. Somehow that just doesn’t compute to being a “holy” man. Also causing the whole world to live in fear for the last 12 years because of that incident in 2001.

You do realize an overwhelming majority (probably 99.9%) of Muslims do NOT support jihad, or blowing up buildings. That is just a disrespectful and stereotypical way of thinking, and quite honestly, I was a bit shocked when I read your post.

 

[Trebor135]

You do realize an overwhelming majority (probably 99.9%) of Muslims do NOT support jihad, or blowing up buildings. That is just a disrespectful and stereotypical way of thinking, and quite honestly, I was a bit shocked when I read your post.

I expect only a small minority of Muslims approve of the 9/11 attacks, but we cannot say that quite as few as “99.9%” of them do not accept jihad, especially defensive.

Also, you have a great username.

 

[Kanuckistani]

I expect only a small minority of Muslims approve of the 9/11 attacks, but we cannot say that quite as few as “99.9%” of them do not accept jihad, especially defensive.

Also, you have a great username.

I guess your right, but saying that Mohammed approved of 9/11 and all, is absurd. If you look deep down into Islam, it isn’t so bad as everyone thinks it is.

I actually wanted my username to be either “Canuck,” or “Kanuck,” but they were used. And I thought to myself, maybe Kanuckistani would work? It wasn’t a stereotypical thing, I just like the way it sounds.

 

[LegoGE1947]

You do realize an overwhelming majority (probably 99.9%) of Muslims do NOT support jihad, or blowing up buildings. That is just a disrespectful and stereotypical way of thinking, and quite honestly, I was a bit shocked when I read your post.

I’m sorry, but when all I hear in the news is about Muslims blowing up buildings, ruining the Boston Marathon, making threats that keep the rest of us in fear, it is hard to wrap my head around the concept that 99% of Muslims do not approve of jihad. After seeing and hearing just that side of Islam, what are we supposed to think. No disrespect intended but I can only see what I see and it’s not very pretty.

 

[dronald]

Yes, I believe that Jesus Christ [peace be upon him] taught Islam. If you read the oldest of the four gospels, which is the gospel of Mark, you’ll see a lot of parallels between it and Muhammad’s message. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jesus [peace be upon him] said something to the effect that he was the way to God, in fact, it’s very likely that he did. Every prophet would have said as much. All would have said that following them is to indirectly follow God.

Mark 14:61But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62"I am," said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Jesus had quite a way with words, didn’t He?

 

[MartinJordan]

Mark 14:61But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62"I am," said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Jesus had quite a way with words, didn’t He?

Meanwhile, either one reads Mark or any of the Gospels for that matter, they all confirm Jesus and God are One and the Same!

Mohammed has really no place within this scenario. .

MJ

 

[Trebor135]

Mark 14:61But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62"I am," said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Jesus had quite a way with words, didn’t He?

Haha. You aren’t the first one to show that St. Mark’s Gospel isn’t entirely friendly to the Islamic view of Jesus by referencing that particular exchange. Please see “Exposing More of Shabir’s Deceptive Tactics”.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Ok, I’m almost done. I just have to address that last question you raised.

“Also, I’m curious as to why Muslims would accept Jesus as a prophet, born of the virgin Mary, etc. Do you believe that Jesus taught Islam? If so, why? Did not Jesus teach that He is the way, going to the Father through Him, etc?”

Well, we believe he was a prophet and was born of a virgin because the Qur’an says so.

Yes, I believe that Jesus Christ [peace be upon him] taught Islam. If you read the oldest of the four gospels, which is the gospel of Mark, you’ll see a lot of parallels between it and Muhammad’s message. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jesus [peace be upon him] said something to the effect that he was the way to God, in fact, it’s very likely that he did. Every prophet would have said as much. All would have said that following them is to indirectly follow God.

Interesting. What are some of these similarities you see with the Gospel of Mark and the teachings of Islam?

 

[LivingWaters7]

I
Why would I believe something based on one testimony? let alone a message as radical as complete surrender to the one God? You really think I would dedicate my life to following a religion just because one person said that this religion is right? come on now, don’t take me for an idiot. There are a lot of ways one can come to know that the Qur’an is true; too many to list. For me, it was the fact that it presented God in a rational way, which I had never seen [and still have not seen] in any other faith. The teaching of Tawheed, which says that God is completely dissimilar from His creation, is absolutely logical.

Ok. Interestingly, I find that Christians also tend to view their faith as completely logical and rational, and that the Bible presents God in a rational way. I guess I was wondering about Islam/Qur’an specific things that convince you that it really is the “one true faith” and all others (or at least specifically Christianity, as that’s what I’m interested in comparing it to) are not. Isn’t the teaching of Tawhid essentially found in Judaism too? I’ve been finding some similarities between Islam and Judaism vs Christianity, which is what really piqued my interest in Islam and the Qur’an.

The Qur’an contains historical and scientific miracles. It describes destroyed nations, nations which have only been uncovered recently, and gives specific details on what these nations were like, what made them go extinct, etc. One great source is the book ‘Perished Nations’ by Harun Yahya; check it out. But, for something more tangible, here’s irrefutable proof of a miracle-- so irrefutable, even a secular source, National Geographic acknowledges it: youtube.com/watch?v=Y6jL1Y1G-44&list=FLvcLQQW0d8BqELRMKp38LRA&index=26

Check the links in the video description as well.

Ok, I’ll check out the video soon. I have heard of the claim of historical and scientific miracles in the Qur’an, I’m hoping that these are actually miraculous. Describing destroyed nations that have only been discovered recently, with specific details certainly would be uncanny and cause for pause.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

Ok, I don’t respect Islam in the least, but this fact about the prophet’s life needs to be straightened out. He was never a pedophile.

He was betrothed to his youngest wife, Aisha, while she was nine. This is betrothal, not marriage. He did not consumate the marriage until after puberty. So it needs to stop for the sake of truth and honesty. Mohammed did not abuse children.

There are plenty other of his claims that can be attacked without falsely attacking his person.

Like the fact that all of his information about Christ comes almost verbatum from a heretical sect of Jewish Christians who lived in the area of Mecca during his time.

 

[Trebor135]

Interestingly, I find that Christians also tend to view their faith as completely logical and rational, and that the Bible presents God in a rational way.

What do you think of the article I linked to in post #5?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Ok, I don’t respect Islam in the least, but this fact about the prophet’s life needs to be straightened out. He was never a pedophile.

He was betrothed to his youngest wife, Aisha, while she was nine. This is betrothal, not marriage. He did not consumate the marriage until after puberty. So it needs to stop for the sake of truth and honesty. Mohammed did not abuse children.

There are plenty other of his claims that can be attacked without falsely attacking his person.

Like the fact that all of his information about Christ comes almost verbatum from a heretical sect of Jewish Christians who lived in the area of Mecca during his time.

You sure. I was of the understanding the betrothal was at age 6 and he consummated the marriage at age 9.